Re: Cheapest car?

ClayBelt wrote:

So I found something almost in the free range: a 1995 Rustang that I will probably be modding. It is a freebie, almost never see those here.

4.6l? V6 is going to be a dog. But just like the GM's of the day, plenty of cheap parts and always available at local stores.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Cheapest car?

It's a V6. But hey, freebie is freebie

Re: Cheapest car?

ClayBelt wrote:

It's a V6. But hey, freebie is freebie

Since it was free my guess is the motor may not have a lot of life left in it.  The 95 motor was not huge on power at 145hp, but if you can find a 99-04 motor you can bump that to 195.  It appears that it is the same motor so should bolt in with a transfer of some parts from your old block, but check the Mustang forums first.

My 00 Firebird puts out 200hp which is nearly the same as the 5.0 from the 80s and early 90s.  It's a midpack B class car but I need to help it go on a diet.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix

Re: Cheapest car?

It has a blown head.

Re: Cheapest car?

If it has a blown head I would look to replace the motor for a later model one with more HP.....or you could go for an X-Type with 225hp and awd!

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix

Re: Cheapest car?

Actually thinking a carbed V8 from a 1970's F150 I see on my commute

Re: Cheapest car?

Straight six. You want a straight six. It's a solid trip to Class-C-Land and it won't blow up on you like the carbed V8 would.

K Car Stalker

Re: Cheapest car?

Rule #2 of LeMons racing:  Never, ever listen to Sasha.

Rule #1 is never listen to Phil.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: Cheapest car?

Unless you want to be the winningiest winner of all, that is.

K Car Stalker

Re: Cheapest car?

Much like Tic Tac Toe or Global Thermonuclear War, the only winning move is not to play.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: Cheapest car?

firegremlin wrote:

Straight six. You want a straight six. It's a solid trip to Class-C-Land and it won't blow up on you like the carbed V8 would.

No, you want a flathead six (which happens to also be straight) as it is almost a guarantee of IoE.

Re: Cheapest car?

The cheapest car is the one you never buy!

There are lots of good comments here.

Regarding safety, buy good stuff the first time. I don't think a $1000 seat is safer than a $300 seat but a $50 plastic seat ain't safe and won't pass tech. We bought latch link belts in our initial build which got replaced with camlocks by the second race. Sure the latch links were cheaper but they make expensive spares.

I wouldn't buy the cheapest thing I could find either. A free Yugo would probably cost more than a $500 E36. The E30 well has gotten pretty dry in my area. Parts availability can save a lot of time and money like comments about what's in Pick-A-Part.

While I did end up with 2 sets of safety belts up front, we also spent a lot of time and money on safety stuff and reliability. A whole new brake system was kinds pricey which paid off in more race time at the track than wrench time fixing things we cut corners on.

After 8 years of racing we had a disappointing first experience last month. We rebuilt our motor and it crapped out after 2 hours. Only one guy got seat time but we all still paid. Try to keep the spending down while doing your best to maximize seat time.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Cheapest car?

Troy wrote:

After 8 years of racing we had a disappointing first experience last month. We rebuilt our motor and it crapped out after 2 hours. Only one guy got seat time but we all still paid. Try to keep the spending down while doing your best to maximize seat time.

Geeze that stinks, how long was your break in?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Cheapest car?

Second the camlocks vs latch belts experience.  We ran latches up until the last race, when we had them come apart on two different drivers while on track (one of whom was me).  That was super spooky.  We upgraded to camlocks this race- I think they were about $30 more expensive.  As a bonus, they're much easier to use, so less time spent fumbling with belts while changing drivers.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: Cheapest car?

Had the mustang run off on me, back to searching. Hope is to build a safe one that meets tech for $1000 from a mixture of Picknpull and Craigslist

Re: Cheapest car?

I would love to see the breakdown of costs from teams building cars for $6k plus dollars.  That seems much higher than it needs to be.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.

Re: Cheapest car?

ClayBelt wrote:

Had the mustang run off on me, back to searching. Hope is to build a safe one that meets tech for $1000 from a mixture of Picknpull and Craigslist

Sounds like a great goal, but at a minimum budget at least $3000 for a new build.  Even if the car is free a pre-bent cage is $700 shipped to you alone.  That doesn't cover welding consumables or that you know how to install a cage correctly and won't have to cut out and re-buy components.  The cheapest new seat you're going to find is $300, maybe you can find a used one for a little less.  Harness, fire suppression system, brakes, tires, gas, getting a free car running well, oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, plus $500 worth of things you never thought of. 

We attempted to do the same thing our first race because we had no money and were thinking that less was more in Lemons.  It was a mistake, our $50 Pep Boys pads were completely gone before the race ended and this was discovered as our driver was going 100+ on the front straight of NJMP and he couldn't stop.  He was quick thinking enough to down shift in our automatic transmission, made the turn and got back to the paddock but he was lucky.  Our $200 worth of Pep Boys cheapest tires were completely melted and chunked.  We did not finish the race as we didn't have any spares and with only a couple hours left in the race it wasn't worth trying to find a set.  We had the second slowest best lap time only to the 3PM Rolls, yes even the upside down Camaro had better lap times largely due to our crappy tires and brakes.  We also failed tech due to the roll cage not being installed properly and had to scramble to find help and fix that. 

We all have budgets and have to make choices based on them.  However, be extremely careful not to skip on anything safety related.  Pay for the .120 DOM cage, better brakes, and safety gear.  In the unfortunate event your driver gets t-boned while disabled on the track you will be very happy you did.  Lemons has been historically amazingly safe despite being some extremely severe accidents.  Do not skimp on safety!  Your team won't want you to skimp on reliability either as there is nothing worse than blowing a motor at 1:00 in the afternoon Saturday  just after the local junkyards close because you chose cheap oil.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix

Re: Cheapest car?

Trevor57 wrote:

I would love to see the breakdown of costs from teams building cars for $6k plus dollars.  That seems much higher than it needs to be.

Registration fee- $1600
Built cage by someone good and not doing any favors- $1500-$3000
Fire suppression system- $600
Nice Seat- $500
FIA harness- $200
6 mounted tires- $900
Rotors and pads- $400
Oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid- $150
Other random costs like fixing broken parts- $500
Theme/paint- $100
Bribe-$50
Total on cheap end of cage- $6500

This doesn't include other fancy pants stuff like suspension upgrades, quick release steering wheels or lots of buttons and gauges.  It also doesn't include transportation to the track, gear, weekend supplies, or oh shit something went wrong money.  Yes, you can build your own cage and save money, but that takes talent.  Can you do it cheaper?  Yes, but that is how teams easily spend $6000 plus on a budget.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix

Re: Cheapest car?

I've never added it all up, because after 4 years of racing I'm not sure I want to know. We probably spend $2-300 between races just on tires, brakes, and fixing random broken stuff. Here's what I recall from our initial build (not including entry fees):

Car- Free (already owned and sitting in storage for 4 years)
Carburetor rebuild and jets- $60
Valve stem seals, head and manifold gaskets- $80
New fuel tank- $160
Cage kit shipped from RCC- $800
Welding consumables- $100???
Sheet metal to patch/rebuild rusty floor- $50
New rear springs (to cure butt-sag)- $260
New (cheap) shocks- $100
Disc brake upgrade parts- $200?
EBC Yellowstuff pads- $100
O'Reilly brake rotors- $100
6 wheels and decent Class C tires- $800
Paint- $100
Fire System- $500?
Race seat- $280
Bullshit to mount race seat- $100?
Belts- Free (unused spare latch & link set from Tetanus Racing)
Kill switch and electrical stuff- $100?
Fluid change for everything- $100?
Nickel and dime bullshit- $200 (AT LEAST)
U-joints (one failed during test drive)- $50


Total (maybe?)- $4240
And we definitely cheaped out on some stuff.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

45 (edited by Trevor57 2017-04-19 09:34 AM)

Re: Cheapest car?

$4k seems a little more reasonable.  I understand that you cannot race the car in lemons for free,but entry fees aren't really part of the cost to BUILD a car.  I guess if a team had no motorsports experience it could cost more, since they would be learning as they went, and likely spending more than an experienced team.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.

46 (edited by RobL 2017-04-19 10:22 AM)

Re: Cheapest car?

Here is a typical build for us:
Car Acquisition Cost    679.5833333
Car cost    500
tolls    60
towing (car pick up)    119.5833333

Car Build Costs    4232
Belts (safety)    415
cage materials    700
Chump sidepanels    90
Cut off switch     42
seat    518
wheels    100
skid tape and rollbar padding    55
passenger seat    125
Wire and bolts    107
Master Cylinder and parts    102
More rollcage padding    40
Exhaust components    225
heat     20
radiator and parts    150
Tubing sold    -50
engine parts    195
pistons    90
transponder holder    20
Engine    535
oil/fluids/serpentine/rad hose    130
fpr/injectors/MAF connector    255
intake and stuff    248
ECU    50
Window Net    70

Race Costs    3325.18
Chris    -80
Dave    -20
Entry fee    1200
oil/fluids    100
tire remount    90
tires    781.88
Transponder (4 of 10)    50
Lunch (1/12)     30
Lunch (1/19)     30
Brake Pads2    305.22
Garage    100
Gas    738.08

Cost to get to the first start line was ~$7400 and that's with me making our cage.  If you have to send that work out, add another $800-900.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Cheapest car?

Trevor57 wrote:

$4k seems a little more reasonable.  I understand that you cannot race the car in lemons for free,but entry fees aren't really part of the cost to BUILD a car.  I guess if a team had no motorsports experience it could cost more, since they would be learning as they went, and likely spending more than an experienced team.

If you build an IoE-winning car, your next entry fee is waived.  :-D

Rattlesnake Robby built our cage for $1000, all-in.  We got a used Kirky seat for $40.  Car was free.  Wheels were rotten, so we bought 6 new ones for $600.  6 new tires were $300.  Ran stock brakes with better pads, $130 for new pads and new rear shoes.  Used fuel cell, $150.  New fluids and filters, spark plugs and wires, and other sundry mechanical bits were $200.  Harness was under $100.  Cut the exhaust and ran duals (v8 engine), $150 for mufflers and pipe and clamps and hangers.  Figure another $100 for consumables (grinding wheels, PBlaster, band-aids, etc).

That brings us to ~$2700 for the build itself.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: Cheapest car?

Speaking of cheap things, a good rule of thumb is that each minute of downtime costs you roughly $3 in lost racing time, if your build is cheap. So, if something can save you 30 seconds a pit stop, and you'll use it for at least 4 races, it's probably worth paying $50 for (for example, quick fill jugs + gutting your fuel filler stopper). If you think about everything in that light, having some things suddenly starts making sense - while other things, like "free" mods that increase speed at the expense of reliability, do not.

Showing up with a working car and not "fixing" anything in the morning usually means not missing green by 30 minutes, which is like $100 in your pocket, right there.

K Car Stalker

Re: Cheapest car?

Trevor57 wrote:

I would love to see the breakdown of costs from teams building cars for $6k plus dollars.  That seems much higher than it needs to be.

Here Ya Go

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Cheapest car?

Guildenstern wrote:
Trevor57 wrote:

I would love to see the breakdown of costs from teams building cars for $6k plus dollars.  That seems much higher than it needs to be.

Here Ya Go

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing

Good lord man!  That is a lot of parts. Maybe I am spoiled, because Volvos do not need new parts to go endurance racing.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.