1 (edited by IgnoranteWest 2014-10-30 01:10 PM)

Topic: Let's talk tire hardness and age

Help me and my team decide whether we have one more race left in a set of tires. 

I think my science is tight, as far as providing data that is useful:

Direzza Star Specs, Mfgr date July 2011.  They have always been kept indoors in a well insulated but not climate controlled steel storage building.  Plenty of tread left.

Two races on this set of tires, one where the car saw approximately 20 hours on track at texas world speedway in 2012, and most of a two day race at MSRH in November of 2013. 

Yesterday I test mounted one of the tires on a car outside and left it jacked up.  Today when I arrived at the shop at  Noon, the tire was still in complete shade and I could spin the wheel around freely, so I took 10 durometer meaurements each of the inside,  middle, and outside of the tread, all around the circumference of the tire.

Shore A Scale average readings, ambient temperature 78 degrees, are:

Inside: 83.3333
Middle: 72.22222
Outside: 82.44444

So that's all the data we have.  I think we can race one more race on these, plenty of treadwear.  My teammates question this like they question everything.  And I mean that in the nicest possible, most positive way.

What say you?

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

Um, on a fresh build? Run 'em. The first race on a new car is more or less a shakedown run anyway.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

Baron wrote:

Um, on a fresh build? Run 'em. The first race on a new car is more or less a shakedown run anyway.

I agree. They are good enough to last the race, even if you stay out there the entire race.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

What's the tread depth?

We showed up to a race last year with about 4/32nd remaining, maybe 3/32nd in some spots.  They were pretty close to the wear bars in spots by the end but they performed well.

I knew it was a risk.  We would be in bad shape if it rained hard.  But it stayed dry and we ran all weekend.  The set of Z1s lasted just over 1100 race laps plus a couple practice sessions.

2011 is old for performance tires.  They won't be the fastest tire, but they'll work.

When I started, we were using the old Hankook RS2 bought on closeout.  Probably '07-08 date codes, and we ran them til '11.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

Our heavy beast did barber last year on old/hard tires. We started with 3/32 and ended with 3/32. Being old and hard the tires were slippery but wore very hard. However they were like 10 year old tires.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

BTW, Dave, I have that damned Salt n Pepa song running through my head now. Remind me to thank you for that at MSRH.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

Yeah, my teammates thought I should leave the "tire" out of the thread title... Haha

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

If this were CMP, I would say you are hosed.  CMP has become a tire eating monster, even for our small VW.  We would run Saturday, then swap front to back, and still have tires for the rear for the next race.  Now, not so much luck.  We wasted our LF by 3:00 on Saturday this last race while leading.   

We have run 2 year old used tires with 3-4 heat cycles (read that as we blew the tranny in consecutive races....) with durometer readings of high 70's and did not really notice too much of a difference.  Once hot, the durometer was much lower.  I did feel the tire was harder a bit, as when you got really hard on it the car would bounce on the asphalt a bit instead of sticking to it, but the lap times were close to our previous races.  YMMV on your particular track, how hard you are pushing it, and your particular setup.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

Mulry wrote:

BTW, Dave, I have that damned Salt n Pepa song running through my head now. Remind me to thank you for that at MSRH.

whatta man?

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

10 (edited by BoB 2014-10-31 08:39 AM)

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

As long as you kept them out of the sun they should be ok.  Sunlight and Heat Cycles will effect a tire more than just time.  Sitting in a dark room should make them last longer

I would bring some more as backup cause you never know when you might run over something sharp.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

We picked up a puncture last weekend.  Driver reported severe oversteer, checked and right rear was almost completely flat.  Didn't have a spare, I grabbed the plug kit, we found the hole, and got it plugged and refilled.  Tire was hot but didn't seem to be damaged so we finished the race on it (<3hr left).  We will definitely remove and inspect that tire before next race.

I don't know what we'd do if we'd cut a tire or completely destroyed it running around on almost no air pressure.  Probably pull a wheel off my dailiy driver that has the same bolt pattern.  Or maybe borrow a wheel/tire from another team.  There are always options available (unless your car is really obscure)

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

BoB wrote:

As long as you kept them out of the sun they should be ok.  Sunlight and Heat Cycles will effect a tire more than just time.  Sitting in a dark room should make them last longer

I would bring some more as backup cause you never know when you might run over something sharp.

Thanks.  We do have backups that are 1 year older.  And we have a set of "rain tires" which are just regular passenger car tires, with 100% tread on them.

And my shop, where they have sat, has been completely dark 99% of the time.  Which is depressing thought on its own.

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

The Humid TT was our 6th race (about 6000mi) in one year on the same set of Z1s, they were heat cycled out the race before but we figured what the heck, they have been costing us 1.5 sec a lap by the time we took em off but they weren't unsafe.

Run em, they WILL soften when hot, you will know when they are done.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

My philosophy is if you are questioning it, get a new set.

Old tires are unsafe. Old high performance tires that have been on a track even more so.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

mhrir wrote:

My philosophy is if you are questioning it, get a new set.

Old tires are unsafe. Old high performance tires that have been on a track even more so.

Normally, I'd agree with this, but in this case we're talking about 3 year old Direnzas that have been stored inside.

To the OP, run them.  They're not 30 treadwear tires where age is ultra critical to optimal performance.  We've run 2-3 year old 200 treadwear tires and nobody could tell the difference between them and the 'newer' sets we've run.

bs

Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

towerymt wrote:

We picked up a puncture last weekend.  Driver reported severe oversteer, checked and right rear was almost completely flat.  Didn't have a spare, I grabbed the plug kit, we found the hole, and got it plugged and refilled.  Tire was hot but didn't seem to be damaged so we finished the race on it (<3hr left).  We will definitely remove and inspect that tire before next race.

I don't know what we'd do if we'd cut a tire or completely destroyed it running around on almost no air pressure.  Probably pull a wheel off my dailiy driver that has the same bolt pattern.  Or maybe borrow a wheel/tire from another team.  There are always options available (unless your car is really obscure)

We bring at least two spares mounted on wheels.  These weekends cost too much money not to do it.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

How does everyone get more than one race on a set of tires?!?!?  Maybe the old slow Metro we could get two races, but the E30 and the Metro now chew through a set per race.  Maybe our tracks up here are bad on tires?

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

We get two to three out of a set. ECR is harder due to flat spots and tire spin, MSR is pretty easy on tires though.

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Re: Let's talk tire hardness and age

The EXP has yet to wear through a tire from track surface abrasion.  We've cut down two due to suspension/driving failures.

I will say that after a weekend at Road America, I would have found the fronts to be "iffy" heading into Autobahn - so we moved them to the back.  They're still on the back after Gingerman.  I'll have to take a look to see if we should replace them before the next race.

Fronts, if we hadn't cut a tire down, would probably have been ready to become rears after Autobahn.  Which would have forced us to replace the rears or use them as spares.

So... with all else being equal, I could get 3 or 4 races out of 2 tires, if I didn't have to free up the wheels to provide fresh fronts.

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