Topic: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

I wanted to write a quick thank you, and apologize to all the teams that we pissed off this weekend.

We had a great time racing at Loudon, and it was our first time at the track.  With it being our second overall race we got into a bit of overconfidence and it showed this weekend. 



First the Thank yous:
Tom in the Fox.  Thanks for stopping by and helping show us some good lines to run.
Jeff Bloch:  The man, the myth, the legend. It was nice meeting you.  Tom, your friend is hysterical.
Dean and the rest of the sorry for party racing.  "Board Meeting"  great time seeing you guys again.  It was nice to have someone who knew our names.
Team Floodstang:  You were next to us and blasted good music.. You were appreciative and lent us your drip tray. I'm glad the pulled pork was good. 
Jay Lamm, the judges and all the other workers:  Thank you.

and now the apologies (we have gone over to all the teams before this post, but just to be sure):
Bazinga Racing:  We are sorry for the nudge causing the spin. I hoped you liked the green bottle on the car.  Sorry.
Dirty Penny Racing: I personally cooked the brakes thru turn 3. Your pumpkin was worlds better than ours.  Sorry.
The red firebird team:  Our driver was pushing the car.  Sorry for the spin at the base of turn 3 (You get an idea of our trouble spot?)
and any others we missed sorry.  This won't happen again.

We have some work to do:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5604/15455331738_8f93bc73e4_c.jpg20141026_163519 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

2 (edited by Klayfish 2014-10-27 11:19 AM)

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

Glad you guys had a great time, that's what Lemons is all about.  Appreciate the candid post.  Thankfully we didn't have direct contact with your car, but just to give some hopefully constructive feedback, you definitely were one of the more aggressive cars out there.  Not that aggression can't be a good thing, but it needs to be kept in check.  I was driving the #41 Honda Civic hatch on Saturday and "The Boat" on Sunday...both fairly slow cars.  Saw several not-such-a-good-idea passes from your car.  On Sunday, sometime between 11am and 1pm, whoever was in the car got into turn 1 way too hot.  It was misty/light rain and the track was slick.  They went off track into the grass on the right.  That wasn't a big deal...shit happens...lots of cars were spinning in the wet.  But whoever was driving didn't check to see if the track was clear before pulling back on between 2A and 2B.  I was in the boat and if I hadn't planned on them to pull out blindly AND I had some damn good brakes, the driver would have been eating the pointy nose of the boat. 

Not a big deal, no bent sheetmetal (or fiberglass).  Hope to see you guys out there again.  Just make "red mist" a type of drink, not a driving style.  Oh, and if you're getting driving advice from the famous Fox...take it.  Tom ran with us and was a huge help, we all learned a lot.  Whenever the Fox passes me, I try to follow the line...well, at least for the 2 or 3 turns until it disappears from my view.

Three Pedal Mafia

Jack of all trades (???) Lemons staff

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

One of your drivers popped over the blend line just as I was apexing 2b at full force while running 2nd place. I had to make a quick move to avoid your car and was able to get around clean, but that is extremely dangerous and could have ended badly.

Swedish Mafia Volvo 245 #230

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

Blend line infractions are a very bad thing, but the blend line at NHMS is also very bad if you're not used to it.

5 (edited by n0m4d 2014-10-27 01:50 PM)

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

We had a car tag the rear quarter and spin our WD-39 car exiting the blend line early at 2b on Saturday.  We then proceeded to get reamed in the penalty box for driving that car "Hyper-aggressive".  I did notice the gap in the cone spacing that would lead a new driver to maybe think the exit was at the corner and not into the straight.

30 entries since 2009
#39 & #53 Overengineer'd Racing - Wilton, NH
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Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

n0m4d wrote:

for driving that car "Hyper-aggressive"

I think that's just the script smile

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

russian wrote:

I think that's just the script smile

Well, after 16 entries I get that to some degree, but we got reamed out regarding past races that this particular Judge had raced against this car and how we are always overly aggressive with it.  The unfortunate part is that we are pretty sure it was mistaken identity because none of the said events we have ever attended and that particular e12 had only raced a half event last fall in NH.  I just don't think that you can enter an e12 (basically a heavy oversized 4 door BMW 2002) and think that you are going to be competitive in Class A, because we certainly don't.

I'm not sure who the new Judge was but to be fair I think he did a great job with the driver's meeting and the awards but I felt that the normal ribbing regarding entering a BMW took a personal turn at BS and it continued later on in the penalty box.  After one pass on yellow, the spin at the blend line and a minor "line sharing" contact incident in the bowl we were told to park for the day.  We have never even had that discussion with a Judge in any past race.  Not necessarily complaining, it was just confusing for us.

30 entries since 2009
#39 & #53 Overengineer'd Racing - Wilton, NH
http://www.facebook.com/nhlemons

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

n0m4d wrote:

I did notice the gap in the cone spacing that would lead a new driver to maybe think the exit was at the corner and not into the straight.

This is usually caused by a new driver. The cones were fine at the start of the race. But I've seen new drivers plow through some of those cones because they were watching oncoming cars, not how sharp that track on turn is, and then it looks like you merge out much earlier than you're supposed to. I've been bitten by this before at one of my first races. Got tricked by the large gap when I didn't really know the track well, and then tried to correct back into the track on lane and nailed another cone.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

Hey man, good to see you and glad I could lend a hand, least I could do for those few gallons of gas you lent us in Jersey, they were what we needed to make it to the end!  You guys looked fine out there on track, and I look forward to mixing it up with you next year.

As for the cones at pit out, last year I took 3 of them with me during practice going out too hot (yes I of all people should know better) and was faced with EVERY flagger doing a dunce cap routine at me.  Eh shit happens.  I hate that turn.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

Klayfish wrote:

Glad you guys had a great time, that's what Lemons is all about.  Appreciate the candid post.  Thankfully we didn't have direct contact with your car, but just to give some hopefully constructive feedback, you definitely were one of the more aggressive cars out there.  Not that aggression can't be a good thing, but it needs to be kept in check.

Yeah we definitely were more aggressive than our first race; in Jersey. And I think we are getting more used to the car TBH. AS such we found the limits of our driving... and well it won't happen again.

I was driving the #41 Honda Civic hatch on Saturday and "The Boat" on Sunday...both fairly slow cars.  Saw several not-such-a-good-idea passes from your car.  On Sunday, sometime between 11am and 1pm, whoever was in the car got into turn 1 way too hot.  It was misty/light rain and the track was slick.  They went off track into the grass on the right.

Appreciated.  We will let that particular driver know.  It was our first race at Loudon so some of that "Blend line" was not seen by us.  We will know better for next time.  Those darned cones..

That wasn't a big deal...shit happens...lots of cars were spinning in the wet.  But whoever was driving didn't check to see if the track was clear before pulling back on between 2A and 2B.  I was in the boat and if I hadn't planned on them to pull out blindly AND I had some damn good brakes, the driver would have been eating the pointy nose of the boat.

As above. Noted.  The blend line sucks there. 


Not a big deal, no bent sheetmetal (or fiberglass).  Hope to see you guys out there again.  Just make "red mist" a type of drink, not a driving style.  Oh, and if you're getting driving advice from the famous Fox...take it.  Tom ran with us and was a huge help, we all learned a lot.  Whenever the Fox passes me, I try to follow the line...well, at least for the 2 or 3 turns until it disappears from my view.

Yes we are learning.  We will gladly take any help from Tom or other people..  Please if you see a problem or minor issue, come to our area and explain it to us. We all are competitive so we will have to work on this red mist drink you talk about wink.

I know that as a team we want to be regarded as clean racers, and we will attempt to do that.

And for my caveat.. our car is set up for late braking.. so it does lend us to push the braking zones so we can make up for our lack of horsepower.. but that excuse is so played out it is making a comeback.

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

n0m4d wrote:

We had a car tag the rear quarter and spin our WD-39 car exiting the blend line early at 2b on Saturday.  We then proceeded to get reamed in the penalty box for driving that car "Hyper-aggressive".  I did notice the gap in the cone spacing that would lead a new driver to maybe think the exit was at the corner and not into the straight.


I'm assuming this is not pointed at us as I do not recall having our car hit yours.. but I do get your general point.

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

RogueLeader wrote:

Hey man, good to see you and glad I could lend a hand, least I could do for those few gallons of gas you lent us in Jersey, they were what we needed to make it to the end!  You guys looked fine out there on track, and I look forward to mixing it up with you next year.

As for the cones at pit out, last year I took 3 of them with me during practice going out too hot (yes I of all people should know better) and was faced with EVERY flagger doing a dunce cap routine at me.  Eh shit happens.  I hate that turn.


Tom, as you know we are there to race and have fun.  Thanks for stopping by Saturday night and confirming and assisting us with our lines.

We are going to have some internal talks on how to manage black flags, and may put in a team policy so that it makes the driver think a little bit first. 

Again thanks to all of you for letting us know how to race, and helping us out overall.

please stop by our car if you want to talk to us.  I'll be glad to hear your Constructive criticism, and advice.
Sparky

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

CTSparky wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Hey man, good to see you and glad I could lend a hand, least I could do for those few gallons of gas you lent us in Jersey, they were what we needed to make it to the end!  You guys looked fine out there on track, and I look forward to mixing it up with you next year.

As for the cones at pit out, last year I took 3 of them with me during practice going out too hot (yes I of all people should know better) and was faced with EVERY flagger doing a dunce cap routine at me.  Eh shit happens.  I hate that turn.


Tom, as you know we are there to race and have fun.  Thanks for stopping by Saturday night and confirming and assisting us with our lines.

We are going to have some internal talks on how to manage black flags, and may put in a team policy so that it makes the driver think a little bit first. 

Again thanks to all of you for letting us know how to race, and helping us out overall.

please stop by our car if you want to talk to us.  I'll be glad to hear your Constructive criticism, and advice.
Sparky

I manage black flags by threatening to beat my drivers with a jack handle.  I have dealt out a few beatings already....

This was our first race with 0 black flags so I tend to believe it worked.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

RogueLeader wrote:
CTSparky wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Hey man, good to see you and glad I could lend a hand, least I could do for those few gallons of gas you lent us in Jersey, they were what we needed to make it to the end!  You guys looked fine out there on track, and I look forward to mixing it up with you next year.

As for the cones at pit out, last year I took 3 of them with me during practice going out too hot (yes I of all people should know better) and was faced with EVERY flagger doing a dunce cap routine at me.  Eh shit happens.  I hate that turn.


Tom, as you know we are there to race and have fun.  Thanks for stopping by Saturday night and confirming and assisting us with our lines.

We are going to have some internal talks on how to manage black flags, and may put in a team policy so that it makes the driver think a little bit first. 

Again thanks to all of you for letting us know how to race, and helping us out overall.

please stop by our car if you want to talk to us.  I'll be glad to hear your Constructive criticism, and advice.
Sparky

I manage black flags by threatening to beat my drivers with a jack handle.  I have dealt out a few beatings already....

This was our first race with 0 black flags so I tend to believe it worked.

Don't take this as gospel, but I think we are going with a 2 strikes and you are out for the event policy... Based on whether or not you got called in by the judges but not dependent if you did/did not do what they said you did. 

Refuted only by unanimous agreement among the other drivers or video evidence that totally exonerates them.

This is designed so that drivers think first about what they are attempting before doing something high risk.

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

We have a team rule very similar to that, and have only had to use it once.  That driver has changed his ways since.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

16 (edited by OnkelUdo 2014-10-29 12:26 PM)

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

Sonic wrote:

We have a team rule very similar to that, and have only had to use it once.  That driver has changed his ways since.

Ours is simple...Black Flag means your stint is over unless the whole team just waves you back on the course from the penalty box.  Since our team's only black flags that seem to happen from overdriving the driver's or the car's ability are from yours truly, I am usually the one who suffers. 

Get tagged because you were boxed in and someone dive bombed you...why were boxed in?
Tag the Camaro in front of you because he spins taking out 90% of the track...team waves him out?
4-Wheels off due to a course-long oil slick and you self-reported...team waves you on?
Spin the car in the same corner that gave you trouble yesterday...your an idiot, get out of the car for while?
Passing under yellow is the one we all struggle with...normally we wave them back out because no driver has ever gotten more than one.

Guess which ones were the team captain and author of this post.

Because of our incessant warnings about no speeding int he pits including a reminder on the radio as you leave and another when you turn in, I think if one of my drivers got a penalty for that...we might have make up our own team-based punishment for them alone in addition to the black flag penalty.

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

OnkelUdo wrote:
Sonic wrote:

We have a team rule very similar to that, and have only had to use it once.  That driver has changed his ways since.

Ours is simple...Black Flag means your stint is over unless the whole team just waves you back on the course from the penalty box.  Since our team's only black flags that seem to happen from overdriving the driver's or the car's ability are from yours truly, I am usually the one who suffers. 

Get tagged because you were boxed in and someone dive bombed you...why were boxed in?
Tag the Camaro in front of you because he spins taking out 90% of the track...team waves him out?
4-Wheels off due to a course-long oil slick and you self-reported...team waves you on?
Spin the car in the same corner that gave you trouble yesterday...your an idiot, get out of the car for while?
Passing under yellow is the one we all struggle with...normally we wave them back out because no driver has ever gotten more than one.

Guess which ones were the team captain and author of this post.

Because of our incessant warnings about no speeding int he pits including a reminder on the radio as you leave and another when you turn in, I think if one of my drivers got a penalty for that...we might have make up our own team-based punishment for them alone in addition to the black flag penalty.


Thanks I'll pass this along as to come to an idea on what to do regarding black flags to our group.

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

Thankfully my drivers are generally good, and no threats are necessary. We had more black flags at this past race than normal, but most were not an issue.

Saturday
1- called in because our exhaust jumped a hanger
2- Self report for my driver putting 4 off to avoid others being idiotic in a corner - he could have left more space, but i'll give credit for avoiding contact
3- called in for front bumper hanging off. - this one we talked about. driver got cut off by someone who didn't wait to complete a pass to move in front of him. Avoidable

Sunday
1- called in for contact. both my driver and the driver of the other car admit to being close, but neither thought they touched. Was ruled a corner worker mistake by the judges
2- Contact. very minor contact, other car took responsibility instantly and we were both let on our way.

Of all of those the only one i was even remotely concerned by was the bumper. Driver said it was unavoidable due to a car blocking his ability to move over and avoid, and I believe him. Still could have tapped the brakes during the pass to ensure they got by.

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Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

TheEngineer wrote:

Of all of those the only one i was even remotely concerned by was the bumper. Driver said it was unavoidable due to a car blocking his ability to move over and avoid, and I believe him. Still could have tapped the brakes during the pass to ensure they got by.


That Dad of yours... So aggressive on track..... Should yank him out and give your sister back the ride... LOL... I kid... but next time you're out of seats for family, let me know...

Would have loved to watch you go door to door with your sister in the Cortina... bawhahaha

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Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

TheEngineer wrote:

Thankfully my drivers are generally good, and no threats are necessary. We had more black flags at this past race than normal, but most were not an issue.

Saturday
1- called in because our exhaust jumped a hanger
2- Self report for my driver putting 4 off to avoid others being idiotic in a corner - he could have left more space, but i'll give credit for avoiding contact
3- called in for front bumper hanging off. - this one we talked about. driver got cut off by someone who didn't wait to complete a pass to move in front of him. Avoidable

Sunday
1- called in for contact. both my driver and the driver of the other car admit to being close, but neither thought they touched. Was ruled a corner worker mistake by the judges
2- Contact. very minor contact, other car took responsibility instantly and we were both let on our way.

Of all of those the only one i was even remotely concerned by was the bumper. Driver said it was unavoidable due to a car blocking his ability to move over and avoid, and I believe him. Still could have tapped the brakes during the pass to ensure they got by.

I think I was the other person on the Sunday contact.. They said I went four off when the Shelby came close to shutting the door on me when I was door to door in the rear chicane.  I it was the last corner of the chicane and I normally go over the bump anyways.  But I didn't go four off. to be honest it was a bit miffed but considering our track record for this event I have no legs to stand on.  Maybe he didn't see me, and most likely it was paired with me trying to get around him in a tight situation which I should not have done.

When I was flagged I asked them what I had done.  When they told me four off I was flabbergasted. Trust me if I went off I would have known... but that is for another time.  I need to see you guys to establish a better report with you.

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

CTSparky wrote:

and now the apologies (we have gone over to all the teams before this post, but just to be sure):

Dirty Penny Racing: I personally cooked the brakes thru turn 3. Your pumpkin was worlds better than ours.  Sorry.


That was me driving when we met unexpectedly.  Thanks for coming over and personally apologizing.  It makes the discussion with the rest of the team easier when they can hear both sides of the story.  The funny thing is that I live about a mile from where you guys work on your car!

Brian

(NHMS 10/2014)  Dirty Penny 46  Class C 2nd Place
(NHMS 10/2013)  Team Mater 10
(NHMS 05/2013)  Team Mater 8  Organizer's Choice
(NHMS 10/2012)  Dirty Penny 46  I.O.E. Winner

Re: NHMS 2014 Halloween Hooptiefest from DNF Racing

BPC23 wrote:
CTSparky wrote:

and now the apologies (we have gone over to all the teams before this post, but just to be sure):

Dirty Penny Racing: I personally cooked the brakes thru turn 3. Your pumpkin was worlds better than ours.  Sorry.


That was me driving when we met unexpectedly.  Thanks for coming over and personally apologizing.  It makes the discussion with the rest of the team easier when they can hear both sides of the story.  The funny thing is that I live about a mile from where you guys work on your car!

Brian

I'm really sorry.  Especially since I may have taken you out of winning class C.

And I finally met Andy.. I need to call him about Miata parts.   

And I owe you guys some Beer?  Maybe some Dirty Penny?  heh.

DNF Racing 1992 Mazda Miata
"Cheat to win"