Topic: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

so we had a slight set back at this past weekends event. going to get rid of aluminum wheels and go with steel - any recommendations as to kind or type - additionally what type tire would be best for racing on?? we are running a 1985 Trans Am.

http://i68.tinypic.com/msn0pk.jpg

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Aluminum isn't necessarily bad; lots of teams seem to run them.  You just need a wheel that doesn't suck.  What is that, 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern?  Tons of GM wheels should work.  Maybe something off a S-10/ S-15 pickup?  Those should have aluminum wheels yet also be pretty stout.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

so I am looking into tires and found something that I don't think would even be possible to run - Hoosier 46406R7 - Hoosier Sports Car Road Race and AutoCross Radial Tires for $250 per tire.

now completely out of the box - is this even remotely a possibility to run without penalty??

and thanks Mike, I don't know the specs but it is something that we will be looking into before the next race in October. So we have plenty of time to figure out what we want to do.

4 (edited by FPRbuzz 2016-04-26 06:51 AM)

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Nope, minimum treadwear is 190. Also, those kind of tires aren't going to last very long. Many teams teams run one of the myriad of 200TW tires:
Falken Azenis RT615K
Dunlop Direzza ZII
BFGoodrich Rival
Toyo Proxes R1R
Bridgestone Pontenza RE-11 and RE71R
Kumo Exta V720
Hancook Ventus RS3
(There may be more, but these are all I could remember)

There are also many teams who are running higher than 200TW tires. I'm not super familiar with what brands or models those are.

Planet Express
"IOE" "C Win" 4834.701 Race Miles and counting
Toyocedes
"Least Southern Pickup Truck" "IOE" "C win" "C win (again?)"

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

I was thinking more along the lines of we bought a $500 engine and trans out of a scrap heap and we are going to put down $1000 for rubber. just seemed humerus to me.

but thanks for the info, it helps greatly.

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

A set of 2" wheel spacers on all 4 corners will allow you to run 4th gen f body factory 17" wheels. They're relatively light & strong, as well as readily available on the used market.

That's what we do. 20 races on 2 sets of wheels with no issues thus far.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

7 (edited by rodknox2 2016-04-26 07:44 AM)

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

If the wheels are not stock, then you might need hub centric rings for aluminum.  Your problem can occur when the center wheel hole is too large for the hub.  All of the torque is transferred to the lug holes and they will eventually hog out like the ones in your picture.  The rings are available in either plastic or aluminum and come in many sizes.

8 (edited by piper.gras 2016-04-26 07:46 AM)

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

I didn't see your pic before (photo sites are blocked here at work), but just saw it on my phone. Looks like you're running the factory 3rd gen wheels, which are lug centric  so you should not need centering rings.

Were your lug nuts properly torqued? Studs properly seated? Were the studs recently replaced? It sure looks like a couple lug nuts backed off, likely due to one of those issues. You'll tear up a set of steel wheels too without proper torque or fully seated studs.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

9 (edited by billybobster 2016-04-26 09:45 AM)

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Also check to see if you have the right lug nuts for the wheels. Ball or cone seat.

Nothing wrong with running aluminum wheels on track. I've got 949 Racing 6ULs on my track day Miata and quite happy with them. No hub centering rings either.

If you do run hub centering rings, I had persistent vibration on a previous track day car that was cured by going from plastic to aluminum hub rings. Other people run plastic rings no problem.

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).

10 (edited by meyers0150 2016-04-26 11:37 AM)

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Lots of F-Body guys use Corvette rims and sizes.  I have a 4th Gen with 16s as they are cheaper than 17s, but tire options are limited.  If you go to 17s there are many options for tires.  Also, make sure you get at least 2 spare mounted tires.

Edit- I would also check out a Firebird/Camaro forum and see what sizes others use and if there are special requirements, like spacers, needed.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive, 2017 Thompson I Got Screwed, 2019 Pitt Heroic Fix

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

icecoldkidd wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of we bought a $500 engine and trans out of a scrap heap and we are going to put down $1000 for rubber. just seemed humerus to me.

but thanks for the info, it helps greatly.

Welcome to racing. Racing isn't cheap.

Tires are consumables. You must have 190 or higher tread wear. We run the star specs and love them. The daytona got two races on a set. Do not show up with slicks as it's a great way to land yourself back on your trailer.


As to the picture of that wheel you posted. Looks like someone mounted with only 3 bolts and they got loose.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

rodknox2 wrote:

If the wheels are not stock, then you might need hub centric rings for aluminum.  Your problem can occur when the center wheel hole is too large for the hub.  All of the torque is transferred to the lug holes and they will eventually hog out like the ones in your picture.  The rings are available in either plastic or aluminum and come in many sizes.

Just say no to the plastic rings.  The heat from the brakes will melt them into useless in no time.  BTDT with the Golf in my sig.  I limped it into the pits at NJMP on one stud a few years ago.  The other 3 failed from the alloy wheel moving around on the hub after the plastic centering rings melted; fracturing the studs.  We went back to the steel wheels that fit the hubs properly and no more failures.

We also had issue with the OE alloy wheels being made of something that looked like aluminum but was closer to chewing gum.  By the end of the weekend at Nelson Ledges '09 we darn near pulled the lug seats completely through the wheels.  Those wheels have since been recycled into tow rig fuel money...

Nick
Focke Ewe racing -> Muttonheads! Racing -> Torque Junkies
86ish VW GTI...now with TDI Powah!

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Hey, I'm the head lugnut at team sucker punch...the Orange Camaro that races in the midwest.

ANYWAYS..

I have SIX steel rims that I'm more then willing to sell to you guys if you are interested.

16"  Crager D hole rims in steel.  I'll make you a deal on them if you would like.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Cragar/Cragar-Bla … 8/10002/-1

5 races on them with no issues.


Matt.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Diamond Wheels and Bassett have lightweight spun steel wheels. Most are 15", but I think one or both make larger diameters too. You can choose your bolt pattern and back spacing to suit your needs. We are running the 15's and they fit over the big 12" Camaro rotors and calipers, just barely.  Price is around $80 a wheel depending on what you get.

Made in U.S.A. too, if that matters to you.

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

Tiptoe the rat wrote:

I have SIX steel rims that I'm more then willing to sell to you guys if you are interested.

16"  Crager D hole rims in steel.  I'll make you a deal on them if you would like.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Cragar/Cragar-Bla … 8/10002/-1

Matt.

Matt, I might be interested if OP doesn't take them all.  They should be the same fit as the 4th Gen right?  I'm not sure where you are located but I'llbe visiting Kalamazoo for the 4th of July and driving there from Philadelphia.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive, 2017 Thompson I Got Screwed, 2019 Pitt Heroic Fix

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

thank you all for the information, I have told my brother about the posting and will leave it up to him.

Thanks Matt for the offer, should we not jump on it early enough and you are able to unload them to someone else, power to ya.

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

For a bit cheaper tire, we have run BFG g-forces on our 2 ton malaise land yacht, and they've held up pretty well.  I think they're about 400TW.  Good grip, and they don't break the bank.  One of our guys has an inside deal and snags them for under a Grant each, but even on the free market I think they're about half the cost of the usual 200TW suspects.  Unless you're running a particularly cheaty F-body, the extra grip provided by the stickier tires probably won't matter a whole lot.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

I have the sportcomp2(what mike's referencing) on my daily driven BMW. They were 110$ in a 235/45/17. The biggest complaint I've heard from other people driving my car is that it's not fun because the wheels grip too well.

Planet Express
"IOE" "C Win" 4834.701 Race Miles and counting
Toyocedes
"Least Southern Pickup Truck" "IOE" "C win" "C win (again?)"

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

meyers0150 wrote:

Matt, I might be interested if OP doesn't take them all.  They should be the same fit as the 4th Gen right?  I'm not sure where you are located but I'llbe visiting Kalamazoo for the 4th of July and driving there from Philadelphia.

4th Gen wheels on a 3rd gen require a 2" wheel spacer, so it would follow that if you put 3rd gen wheels on a 4th gen they'll stick out 2" too far.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

icecoldkidd wrote:

thank you all for the information, I have told my brother about the posting and will leave it up to him.

Thanks Matt for the offer, should we not jump on it early enough and you are able to unload them to someone else, power to ya.

No worries Lemons teams and F body teams always get first dibs.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

meyers0150 wrote:
Tiptoe the rat wrote:

I have SIX steel rims that I'm more then willing to sell to you guys if you are interested.

16"  Crager D hole rims in steel.  I'll make you a deal on them if you would like.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Cragar/Cragar-Bla … 8/10002/-1

Matt.

Matt, I might be interested if OP doesn't take them all.  They should be the same fit as the 4th Gen right?  I'm not sure where you are located but I'llbe visiting Kalamazoo for the 4th of July and driving there from Philadelphia.


Like someone posted above the offset is different from the 3rd to the 4th. They will stick out a bit....but if you are still interested they are still for sale.

I'm in Milwaukee Wisconsin.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Wheel and Tire replacement/recommendations

I have two full sets of 3rd Gen Z28 alloys you can have.  They're just taking up space since we switched to Bassetts.

15x7, one set with factory bronze centers, one set painted gold.

You'd have to pay the shipping if you can't pick them up in California though.