Topic: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Hello there Lemonsers,

I'm writing this post for a few reasons;

I'm one of the owners of the #581 Volvo wagon ("days of thunder, six feet under") with the flopping coffin in back. I was driving when this crash occurred Saturday at approx 1130am, and luckily for our team-made it through with only some mild body damage. Unfortunately, two other cars weren't so lucky. The "Misfits" Jag is a total loss, and the black and blue 300zx with the american V8 motor might be a total loss as well. There were a number things that occurred to cause this crash, and it wasn't until Sunday afternoon that I was able to watch a video of the incident.
I spoke with Judge Steve ("who all was driving' when this crash happened?") saturday night when he came to get my side of the story. I explained that I remembered hearing an impact/tire screech prior to the Z and I coming together, and that my brain then assumed some sort of impact had happened behind us to cause us to hit just at the flag station before the carousel. It was our contact that caused the Z car to rotate into the path of the approaching Misfits Jag, thereby ending both of their team's racing for the weekend. Luckily, no one was hurt, and thank goodness we are required to have all of the latest safety gear in our cars.

I've learned a few lessons from this weekend, and I'd like to share them with y'all;

I thought that crash was just a big pile up that had happened behind me, and consequently, didn't approach either the Misfits Jag or the Z drivers to find out what happened, see if they were ok, and just generally check in. I didn't even bring them a beer that night. I had so much other stuff going on with our car that I forgot about them. That's my bad. I should have checked in, at least offered a "sorry that happened, glad you guys are ok" at each of their pits. Any lemons driver that has a few races under their nomex belts has been involved in some sort of contact (judges-earmuffs!) and we don't always report them, or unfortunately-acknowledge each other afterwards. Sometimes accidents go unnoticed, and we "get away with it". I'm not saying we should make dinner for another team if our bumpers touch (not that there's anything wrong with touching another man's bumper), but if involved in an actual "crash", we should check in with each other. Despite some of our cars having anal probes mounted to the roof, a 6' coffin flopping around inside of them, or 387 pictures of Liam Neeson plastered all over them, car racing is a gentleman's sport- and I didn't act accordingly.

I'm sorry for that.

Video cameras tell THE story of what happened. I remember a distinctly different version of what happened. The driver of the Z has his story. The Misfits driver as well...it wasn't until I ACTUALLY WATCHED THE VIDEO, that I saw that the car I thought hit the Z from behind, causing him to come into my side-didn't actually exist... it was a combination of a pretty animated yellow flag waver-possibly not seen by all the drivers, the position of the sun, a large pack of cars going 3 wide into the carousel, and just plain bad luck... right place, wrong time-that whole thing. Luckily, the camera recorded everything that happened, and the Judges were able to watch the video 20 times. They determined that it was just that- a shitty accident, that unfortunately happened-and didn't penalize anyone involved.

I just got off the phone with Dan, the owner/driver of the Z, and I spoke with the driver of the Misfits Jag (Jake?) on Sunday at the track when I was able to watch the video. Both drivers were really gracious, despite being in horrific accidents, and at least one of their cars being completely totaled (even for lemons racing-which is really saying something). 

Anyway- I just wanted to say here-in public- that it sucks that accident happened, it sucks that 2 cars got totaled, and most of all- I'm sorry I didn't check in on the other drivers involved in the crash. Talking to Dan on the phone this morning made both of us feel better about what happened, and he was glad I called. I'm glad, too.

This is a fantastic group of idiots, and the "community" it what keeps this whole thing going...don't fuck it up.

Thanks for reading, now go back to welding a 1/10th scale replica of mount rushmore on top of your 82 Datsun wagon or whatever. See you on the track!

cool,

seth
sonoma,ca
#581 84 volvo wagon
"Days of thunder, Six feet under"

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

i was a couple of pits down from the misfits and wandered by when they were going through the footage of the crash. It was a strange one but we thought it possible you moved right to avoid the Supra on your left thus spinning the Z car. It was hard to really tell from that angle so hopefully some other lemonheads will add their footage as well. Sorry for all involved and glad you were able to reach out to the other two teams.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

I was behind you when you got hit just after T4 by the same silver BMW that PUY'ed me a half lap earlier. Your driver did a good job keeping the car under control. Rough day for you guys.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

PUY is acronym for...?

10X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '17 Sears Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Arse-Sweat, Button Turrible, Arse-Freeze - 2015 Vodden, Arse Freeze. '96 Ford Taurus SHO Skunk - '15 Pointless. Button Turrible.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

billybobster wrote:

PUY is acronym for...?

Pass under yellow, I believe.

Terribly Awesome Racing
Eleven time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

6 (edited by billybobster 2017-03-27 08:50 PM)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Maverick74 wrote:
billybobster wrote:

PUY is acronym for...?

Pass under yellow, I believe.

Thanks. I didn't know that because I've never done it (possibly... maybe...).

10X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '17 Sears Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Arse-Sweat, Button Turrible, Arse-Freeze - 2015 Vodden, Arse Freeze. '96 Ford Taurus SHO Skunk - '15 Pointless. Button Turrible.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Glad no one was hurt.  Here's one perspective.  I think it was much later than 1130.

https://youtu.be/D717onFbUwE

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Looks like you were going slower and misfits didn't see you and swerved over to miss you and hit Fairlady Mopar 300zx

Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,LemonDemoCRX,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 dualley LEMONS LOGO TATTOO! 
Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER finally!
Fabrication Required Transport 925-382-1058 I move Lemons and build cage
EX K Captain at The Ridge and now til it burns to ground

9 (edited by billybobster 2017-03-28 09:10 AM)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Here's the in-car from Misfits - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0z8fCM2KoI - this may be the video that Sethro was referring to as the one the judges showed him.

Reinforces our team's plans to put a containment seat in before Thill.

10X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '17 Sears Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Arse-Sweat, Button Turrible, Arse-Freeze - 2015 Vodden, Arse Freeze. '96 Ford Taurus SHO Skunk - '15 Pointless. Button Turrible.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

blinded wrote:

Glad no one was hurt.  Here's one perspective.  I think it was much later than 1130.

https://youtu.be/D717onFbUwE


Wow. That was some epic grass driving going into the carousel by 999 to avoid the collisions.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Why was the Z slowing down and drifting Left?

OMG Yellow flag Anchors awheigh!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Hi all, Im the constructor/owner of the 300zx Fairlady Mopar. I was the wheel man  at the time of this incident. Since all the videos are being posted i figured i should weigh in  with my video. So here it is
https://youtu.be/xfuhZjGh8xk

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

jeep57h wrote:

Hi all, Im the constructor/owner of the 300zx Fairlady Mopar. I was the wheel man  at the time of this incident. Since all the videos are being posted i figured i should weigh in  with my video. So here it is
https://youtu.be/xfuhZjGh8xk

I wasn't there.

It's good to see all of these different video perspectives.

This last vid in the fairlady looks to me like the driver did everything right. Wheel stayed pointed straight, foot stayed floating on the gas (tach showed no real drop in rpms prior to impact) and the driver started signaling warning of a yellow flag ahead.

The Volvo wagon wanted to go 3-wide and the misfits wanted to make it 4-wide going into the carousel.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

After looking at the Rotary Rooter, Jag and Z videos, it just looks like a repeat of the past accidents going into the carousel.  The Z looks to be doing the right things here.  The wagon looks like it got spooked a bit by the camero passing it on the left and turns into the Z's lane before it completes the pass.  The Jag looks to not see the Z driver waving and probably the flagger but has plenty of room between the Z and the right side of the track so it makes perfect sense to stay in/use that lane.  On one hand, I'd say it's easy to put this on the Volvo driver but on the other hand there's been a fair number of crashes at this same spot so maybe it's time to try something different..  I think we need to get on Jay about manning that flag station towards the outside of 5 and see if that helps avoid more issues going into 6.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

jeep57h wrote:

Hi all, Im the constructor/owner of the 300zx Fairlady Mopar. I was the wheel man  at the time of this incident. Since all the videos are being posted i figured i should weigh in  with my video. So here it is
https://youtu.be/xfuhZjGh8xk

well that definitely clears up what happened...  i was in the fu-haul #270 (passing the fairlady @ 0:42) and after seeing the crash on the next lap, considered myself REALLY lucky as i recognized that i'd literally just passed all of the cars involved.

bullet, dodged.  glad everyone was ok!

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

hey there, the volvo driver here-

Regarding the flagging station comment from cheseroo- I think having a flagger manning the station at turn 5 would be a huge help. I don't think it's a secret that the flagger just before you drop into the carousel is at best-difficult to see in traffic, especially when backlit like it was when the crash happened. I'm not blaming this on the sun, but I didn't even see the yellow flag until a fraction of a second before impact. I couldn't see Dan in the Z waving his hand because i was already next to him and he was using his right hand to wave. Like I told Dan, (the owner of the Z) a dangerous pass/pass under yellow just isn't worth it for me, especially in a 16+ hour race. I absolutely wouldn't have tried to pass him if I had seen the yellow flag sooner!
I've driven 5 different cars over 3.5 years in Lemons racing and haven't been black flagged for passing under yellow because I simply don't try it.

Other drivers I've spoken with also had a hard time seeing that yellow flag during/prior to that crash. Just a shitty situation all around.

Also- that was our last race without (at least) an in-cockpit camera. As mentioned previously, the camera actually shows you what happened-from a few different perspectives.

Dan's video shows that it was 1:30pm, not 11:30 like I had guessed. My car was still up on jack stands at 11:30...time flies when you're driving an 84 volvo.

cool,

seth

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Sethro wrote:

Dan's video shows that it was 1:30pm, not 11:30 like I had guessed. My car was still up on jack stands at 11:30...time flies when you're driving an 84 volvo.

Not that it matters, but if I had to guess, it was closer to 3:30pm.  We keep forgetting to get a 128gb card for the front gopro.  We'd have footage from the front if it were before 3:15 or so.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Regarding the flag stand situation at the Carousel, it's very analogous to 3A. Both at blind crests. Perhaps even worse than T3A because the T6 stand is on the opposite side from the inside, where drivers are focusing their attention.

This Will Power crash in 2009 is what led to the yellow lights getting installed at 3A - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHxG6hHdTpA - Power literally broke his back and almost ended his career right there.

Us Lemons drivers keep having bad accidents at Turn 6 entry involving yellow flags (like that Dec. 2015 crash - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R36aI6r8F2Y).

Time for lights on the left side of T6 entry.

Time for a corner worker instruction that says "Yellow comes out at T6 entry - yellow comes out immediately at next flag station up the track." If that is T5, great. If it's T4, I don't mind an extra short bit of track under yellow in the name of safety.

10X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '17 Sears Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Arse-Sweat, Button Turrible, Arse-Freeze - 2015 Vodden, Arse Freeze. '96 Ford Taurus SHO Skunk - '15 Pointless. Button Turrible.

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Totes agree with billybobster. Lights *and* put the flag stations on the apex side of the track.

Bernal Dads Racing

Current cars: #245 Volvo, #670 Coming Soon!
Former cars: #38 Alfa Romeo Milano Cookie, #243 Molvo—Judge's Choice Sears Pointless 2011 (You like us! You really like us!)

20 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-03-28 07:37 PM)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Sethro wrote:

I think having a flagger manning the station at turn 5 would be a huge help. I don't think it's a secret that the flagger just before you drop into the carousel is at best-difficult to see in traffic, especially when backlit like it was when the crash happened. I'm not blaming this on the sun, but I didn't even see the yellow flag until a fraction of a second before impact.

Every Sonoma Race this gets said by someone.

Looks overall like a breakdown of situational awareness. It was 4 wide there, just too much metal in too little space. You can only look at so much at any given second. As usual glad everyone was ok.

And just want to say it again, Yellow means stop racing, let off, and look for the trouble, slowing way down causes what ALWAYS happens in this part of the track, which is a knot of cars all trying not to pass each other on yellow, being overtaken by cars further back who haven't registered the yellow yet. Hitting the brakes makes you slow down in too short a time for someone outside depth perception range to register accurately.

And don't "give back" spots, The car you just accidentally blew past probably isn't even on the same lap as you. PUY isn't about position, it's about everybody slowing down, getting in a conga line, and not hitting whatever the yellow is out there for.

Flaggers know what is a problem PUY and the normal transition to yellow flag driving.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

Unrelated to this incident, I also race an X-Type and if anyone here is from the Misfits I would love to get in touch with them.  Sorry for everyone's loss.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, NX200, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix

22 (edited by fleming95 2017-03-30 11:26 AM)

Re: Sonoma (March 2017) Saturday crash before the carousel...

<wrong thread>!