Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

This sounds like a job for Seafoam.

102

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

[edited out some stress-induced blather from an earlier post]

Let's get back to the updates.

I'm going to need a car at Buttonwillow that I can beat.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I also look forward to more slow ill handling cars at Buttonwillow.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Spank wrote:

Let's get back to the updates.
I'm going to need a car at Buttonwillow that I can beat.

Parkwod60 wrote:

I also look forward to more slow ill handling cars at Buttonwillow.

You will both get your wishes.   smile   It will be slow, ill handling, and Spank's Mini will pass it like it's standing still (as it probably will be).

I just got home from pulling the engine with the spun bearing out of the car.   I'm too tired to do a proper update right now, but I'll do it by Monday.   Tomorrow (Sunday) I will haul the engine home to my patio, where I can tear it down.   I sure wish I had a local team to help me.   Pulling the engine (after first pulling the transmission) all by myself is a bitch.   It took me almost seven hours, start to finish.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Next time you need help just post it in here. I'm sure there are lots of people who would lend a hand.

If I'm not busy I'd be willing to come over most weekends. Yesterday I was working on my various motorcycles, but there is no deadline on getting those fixed.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

106

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Ok, it's time to put your feet to the fire.

Update?

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Spank wrote:

Ok, it's time to put your feet to the fire.

Update?

Update coming Sunday.   I'll be working on the engine(s) all weekend.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

CowDriver wrote:

Update coming Sunday.   I'll be working on the engine(s) all weekend.

Take your time, but we are watching & waiting smile

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

A bit later than promised, but here it is.   I'll post the next episode tonight.

Episode 19: Tear it all down!

In our last episode, we discovered a spun/stacked rod bearing (brand new!).   This led to the conclusion that an oil passage was plugged.   At the end of the next episode we'll see how correct that assumption is.

Knowing that the crank was in need of a regrind, and that bearings of any size are unavailable, the best hope was that the crank in the '64 parts car was usable.   This was a long shot, given that it had long ago been scavenged for parts, corrosion was everywhere, and the mice had been crapping down the spark plug holes for years.   But I had to know what the insides looked like if I was going to make an informed decision on how to proceed.

You may recall that the parts car was sitting at my friend Bernie's yard in Covina, 30 miles away.   Like most people, I have just one engine hoist.   This means that every time I need to lift something, I have to disassemble it into small pieces, load them into my Volvo, and reassemble it at the new location.  This is complicated by the fact that two of them, my driveway and the patio, are separated by a narrow sidewalk, and my garage is too full of, er, "stuff" to work in.   Also, I am doing 95% of the work all by myself, with nobody to assist.   Thus, even simple tasks take a long time.

Fortunately, the transmission in the '64 had already been removed (Episode 14), and with many parts already missing from the engine, it took me just one day to get it out of the car and ready to move:

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine64/IMG_0824a.JPG

The next day my friend Richard came by with his truck and we moved the engine to my driveway.   Bernie also loaned me a very high-quality engine stand (made by OTC in Minnesota!), rated at 1000 American pounds.   Judging by Harbor Freight products, American pounds seem to be about twice as heavy as Chinese pounds.

Moving the engine from my driveway to the patio, besides the disassembly/reassembly of the hoist, required a wagon of some sort.   Harbor Freight sells a fat-tired, mesh deck wagon (SKU 38137) rated at 1000 pounds.
http://www.harborfreight.com/steel-mesh … 38137.html
Don't you believe it!   Even with wood blocks to distribute the load, the weight of the engine pressed the deck down to where it just rubbed on the tires.   But eventually I got the engine mounted on the stand on my patio, and I could begin tearing it down.

The aluminum water pump, thermostat housing, and intake manifold were all badly corroded.   It took lots of penetrating oil and patient tap-tap-tapping to get them off.   Those parts would clearly have to come from the '59 engine.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine64/IMG_0853a.JPG

Much to my surprise, pulling the bearing caps revealed journals and bearings in perfect condition!   This was totally at odds with the condition of everything else.   But now I knew that this was the crank to use, and I wouldn't have to kludge some bearings.   The question then became, do I use this engine in its entirety, or should I try to combine the parts of both?   Let's pull the head and find out!

Ugh!   Removing the valve cover revealed the most god-awful baked-on crud I could have imagined.   It also revealed the most interesting lubrication "fix" I have ever seen.   I had wondered about a thin plastic tube leading from the oil filter base, through a hole in the oil filler cap.   Someone had modified the rocker arm assembly with a fitting for this tube, so that the valve train would get more oil, directly from the output of the oil pump!   This was not looking good for this engine.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine64/IMG_0857a.JPG

Pulling the head was more good/bad news.   The cylinder bores appeared to be in great condition, with just a bit of a ledge at the top of each bore.   Later I would learn that this ledge was almost entirely carbon, showing that the cylinders had very little wear.   The bad news was that the #5 piston had a nasty crack extending from the center to the edge, and down to the wrist pin.   It also had a tiny chunk missing along the crack.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine64/IMG_1124a.JPG

At least I knew that I had a good crankshaft, bearings, and at least one good connecting rod, all of which were toast on the '59 engine.   Things were looking up, but now I had to disassemble the '59 and see how bad its insides were.

Next: It's deja vu, all over again.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

More, more, more!

Seriously, I enjoy your posts.  Good luck on making it in time!

Jamie Palmer  tr6driver@yahoo.com
Austin Powerless Racing  '75 Austin Marina, 44th/IOE Summit Point '13, 35th/1st Class C CMP Fall '13, 23rd/3rd Class C CMP Spring '14, 83rd/14th Class C CMP Fall '14 (blown engine/swapped mid-race to finish), 3rd Class C CMP Spring '15, 2nd Class C CMP Fall '15
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Austin-Po … 3187341573

111 (edited by zebrabeefj40 2012-05-17 09:36 PM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

The pic of the head actually looks pretty darn good!  The "crud" probably protected the bits from rusting.  A trip to the machine shop would have that cleaned up better than new.  A soak in some mineral spirits or diesel fuel (or whatever you can still get in CA) will probably do fine at home; just takes a little longer.  Any chance you could take an "overall" pic of the head?  I'd like to see how it was put together 'cause I've never seen one.  Thanks!  Keep up the good work!  Were I closer I'd definitely lend a hand.

Nick
Focke Ewe racing -> Muttonheads! Racing -> Torque Junkies
86ish VW GTI...now with TDI Powah!

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

A little JB Weld and that piston will be better than new. wink

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Episode 20: It's deja vu, all over again.

When we last left the '59 car, it was sitting in my driveway getting the cage installed.   That was completed, but I now had to pull the engine.   As you recall from Episode 18, my driveway is slanted in two directions, with a "V" diagonally across it.   It is also so short that an engine hoist would stick out into the street.   I may be crazy, but I'm not (very) stupid, so it had to be moved to Bernie's yard in Covina.

Unfortunately, my wife was home that day and vetoed my transport idea.   I was going to hook a rental trailer to my Volvo, park it down the hill from the house, and use gravity and inertia to roll the Super Snipe down the street and onto the trailer.  What could possibly go wrong?   smile   With no Lemons friends around to convince her of the lack of fail in my plan, I was forced to pay a friendly tow truck driver to make the trip.   It may have been my imagination, but I could have sworn that I heard the neighbors cheering as we drove away.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine59/IMG_0965a.JPG

This time, it took two days to get the engine out: one day to remove the transmission, and a second to unhook everything and actually pull the engine.   On the third day, Richard had time to come by with his truck and bring it back to my house.   Bernie also loaned me his other engine stand!   Don't you envy people who are so well-equipped that they have two engine stands?   Unfortunately, this one, which Bernie swore would hold a big-block American V8, was not up to the task of holding this big inline hemi 6 from England.   It would barely hold it, and it seemed to be sagging.

Thanks to a convenient sales flyer and a 20% off coupon, Harbor Freight was again my destination.   They have three models of engine stands: #32915 (750 pounds), #32916 (1000 pounds), and #67015 (2000 pounds).   Needless to say, I got the biggest.   http://www.harborfreight.com/2000-lb-fo … 67015.html

When I got it assembled, I compared it to the American-made OTC stand, rated at 1000 pounds, and it still came up short, but not by much.   Therefore, I conclude that Chinese pounds are only half as heavy as American pounds.   First the wagon, now the engine stand.   Gravity must be different over there.   You have been warned.

Disassembling the '59 engine went relatively smoothly.   Since it was complete with all accessories, there was a lot more to take off.   Also, I took the time to clean everything as I removed it so as to make assembly go faster (and cleaner).   I also tagged every part so I knew which engine it came off of, as well as the order of such things as valve lifters.   I used little 3/4" by 1" pieces of stainless steel shim stock, stamped with numbers:

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine59/IMG_1090a.JPG

Over the years, my wife has learned how to deal with my dirty outdoor activities.   She provides a 5-gallon bucket of water and Doctor Bronner's soap solution.   I must undress outdoors and put my clothes in to soak.   After a couple of water/soap changes, they are clean enough, in her opinion, to run through the washing machine.   She also sews patches on my jeans.   How can you beat that for support!

As of last night, the '59 engine is now completely stripped down to a bare block, and almost all the parts cleaned.   In general, it looks in much better shape that I had any right to expect.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/engine59/IMG_1131a.JPG

I ran a ridge reamer on the bores of both engines and found that the ridge on both of them was only carbon.   With the exception of the wrist pin on the #1 piston (the one with the spun bearing) and the gouged up big end on the rod, the pistons & rods from the '59 look good -- at least not unreasonable.   They will all need to have the ring grooves cleaned, however, as a couple of rings are stuck.

The rings on the '64 engine are all stuck with baked-on carbon, plus one of the pistons is cracked.   I think I will just use one connecting rod and wrist pin from it.

Now I have to finish cleaning everything and diagnose why the #1 bearing got spun/stacked.   I'm having trouble finding a place to have the blocks cleaned, so I may have to do it at home.   A couple of places will do caustic cleaning, but it will destroy the cam bearings which are unobtanium.   I got a small child's wading pool to contain the mess, so we'll see how that works.

Next: I'm getting cranky.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I feel vaguely guilty for being part of the organization that drives men to such madness.

No, not really. Carry on!

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I don't know, seems like once again you are running out of time

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

CowDriver wrote:

Over the years, my wife has learned how to deal with my dirty outdoor activities.   She provides a 5-gallon bucket of water and Doctor Bronner's soap solution.   I must undress outdoors and put my clothes in to soak.   After a couple of water/soap changes, they are clean enough, in her opinion, to run through the washing machine.

Your wife is awesome.  Tell her to try simple green instead of Bronners, I've had great luck with that.  Plus a half ounce in the wash itself makes all the grease stay in suspension and rinse out in the rinse cycle.

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Parkwod60 wrote:

I don't know, seems like once again you are running out of time

+1

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

dculberson wrote:

Your wife is awesome.  Tell her to try simple green instead of Bronners, I've had great luck with that.  Plus a half ounce in the wash itself makes all the grease stay in suspension and rinse out in the rinse cycle.

+1 to that. I've given up on Gojo and other soaps when i come in with my hands completely black from the mess of oil/dirt/grease/etc that coats the daytona engine. Simple green is the only thing that gets most of it off.


keep the posts coming, this has been a fun story to watch.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

After all he's been  through I hope the Powers That Be let this guy slide on BS laps. (You listening, Jay?) tongue

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

My friend Richard sent me the following note:

Hi Alan,

I was going to hook a rental trailer to my Volvo, park it down the  hill from the house, and use gravity and inertia to roll the Super Snipe down the street and onto the trailer.  What could possibly go wrong?

As front wheels of Super Snipe roll up ramps onto rear of trailer, it sinks.

Super Snipe loses its momentum and stops with front wheels on trailer and rear  wheels on ground.

As trailer sinks in rear, tongue rises.

As tongue rises, it lifts rear wheels of Volvo off of ground.

No rear wheel contact = no Park or parking brakes.

With Alan helpless in driver's seat of Super Snipe, the entourage gains speed as  it rolls uncontrollably downhill.

Film at 11.

Isn't it nice to have such supportive friends?   smile

Now, there is one factual error in his scenario.   The Volvo is front wheel drive, so lifting the rear wheels would not result in no Park or parking brake.   But I still laughed out loud at the vision.

It reminds me of the time a roofing company parked their lift truck in front of my house, after loading it up with my neighbor's old roof.   I remarked to my wife, "They didn't curb the wheels.   They're going to have an accident some day."   Just a minute later, my wife screamed and I looked up.   The truck was rolling down the hill, picking up speed, as the driver ran helplessly after it.

Fortunately, it did not roll straight ahead, which would have taken it down a steep grade (almost a cliff) and onto the freeway below.   Instead, it knocked over two Italian cypress trees at the edge of my property and wrapped itself around a stout power pole.

Their insurance company promptly settled the claim for the two trees and even hauled away the remains.  (Full-grown trees are expensive to replace, when you're paying a commercial nursery for the job!)   I did not bother to have them replaced, however, as the DWP had been by the day before to tell me that the trees were too close to their pole and had to be removed.   Ka-ching!   Profit!  smile

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

dculberson wrote:
CowDriver wrote:

Over the years, my wife has learned how to deal with my dirty outdoor activities.   She provides a 5-gallon bucket of water and Doctor Bronner's soap solution.   I must undress outdoors and put my clothes in to soak.   After a couple of water/soap changes, they are clean enough, in her opinion, to run through the washing machine.

Your wife is awesome.  Tell her to try simple green instead of Bronners, I've had great luck with that.  Plus a half ounce in the wash itself makes all the grease stay in suspension and rinse out in the rinse cycle.

For hands I find a mix of Gojo Orange with pumice and whatever pump hand soap my wife buys works wonders. I also find olive oil based bar soap will get the grime out of your finger prints and everything.

For laundry I spay really bad spots with simple green and toss in a little Borax with the laundry soap. I get things clean I didn't think would ever be that way again.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

122

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

cheseroo wrote:
Parkwod60 wrote:

I don't know, seems like once again you are running out of time

+1

I think he's got plenty of time. He may have to lower his NASA standards, and potentially be willing to drop in some other junkyard drivetrain, but he can get an engine in that thing and get it to the track by June 29th.

123 (edited by CowDriver 2012-05-18 01:04 PM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Spank wrote:
cheseroo wrote:
Parkwod60 wrote:

I don't know, seems like once again you are running out of time

+1

I think he's got plenty of time. He may have to lower his NASA standards, and potentially be willing to drop in some other junkyard drivetrain, but he can get an engine in that thing and get it to the track by June 29th.

I think I can do it.   I've got the rest of today off, plus the weekend, so I think I can make good progress.

Now I just need to find some drivers.   My three friends from Utah can't make it to Buttonwillow!   By the end of this weekend (5/20) I should have a good idea of whether or not the engine will be OK, so I will defer a formal announcement until then.

I'm going to have some engine questions by tomorrow (Saturday).

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Episode 21: I'm getting cranky.

Having removed the crankshaft from the block, I could finally figure out what caused the spun bearing in the first place.   Everyone I described the problem to was sure that it was a plugged oil passage somewhere.   This made sense, given the amount of crud that had been in the oil pan.

The first thing I checked was the crank itself.   I took a 1/8" welding rod and ran it through the oil channels, expecting to push out a big slug of crud -- assuming that it would go through at all.   To my great surprise, there was only a tiny amount of crud, only enough to get the end of the rod dirty!   In fact, the crankshaft was so clean that it would take only a quick rinse with solvent to make it look like new.   Well, except for the badly scored journals.   OK, the problem must be in the block.

The block actually looked pretty good inside.   There was a layer of black slime at the bottom of the camshaft chamber, but that was all.   Running the same rod through the oil channels yielded the same result as with the crankshaft: just enough to dirty the end of the rod, but otherwise completely clear.

In fact, the block looks so good that I gave up on the idea of having it tanked.   Yesterday afternoon, I just sprayed it with cheap Harbor Freight degreaser, washed it off, and repeated.   I used an air gun to both dry it off and blow out the oil passages, but still found no blockages.   I got about 1/8 cup of rust and scale from the water jacket, but that was all.   That block is clean, with just a coat of WD-40 to keep it from rusting.

Now I am confused and worried.   What was the root cause of the rod bearing failure?   Oil starvation does not appear to be the problem.   Oil pressure was good until (I assume) the bearing spun.   The second theory was cooling failure, but I have not found problems in that area.   True, the water pump impeller was coated with crud (now removed), but not enough to cause a complete coolant failure.   Also, the temperature was fine until the failure was well under way.

I'm worried about putting the crank and bearings from the parts car into this block without knowing what caused the failure.   They are the only spares in the known universe, and I don't want to destroy them.

My friend Richard, a gearhead of the first order, has examined the engine and is as mystified as I am.

Today, I will be cleaning the pistons & rods.   The rod with the spun bearing is too damaged to reuse, so I'll replace it with one from the '64 engine.   If I have time, I will start disassembling the '64 engine so I can get its crank out.   Once I get everything out and cleaned, I can make decisions about which parts to combine.

Next: Mix and Match.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

If I were you, I would send the "holy grail" set of good used rod bearings to Swain Tech to be coated with their PPM dry film lubricant.  It's only $35 plus shipping, and it adds less than 0.0005" (one half thousandth inch) to the bearing thickness.  This should provide some amount of protection against marginal oiling conditions...assuming that the crankshaft journal is in decent condition and is the correct size for the bearing, of course.

Team Co-Craptain, Los Cerdos Voladores
Plymouth Neon
Yeah, we're horrible...but we're LEAST Horrible