True tales of the Super Snipe (Page 6 of 10)

They are both 3L engines.   The '59 is a very early Series II, but may have been originally registered as a 1960 model.   Since it was build in 1959, I've been calling it (and registered it as) a '59.

The '64 (not '62) is a Series III, which introduced some minor changes such as the angle of the distributor shaft, and so forth.

The interwebz wrong?   No!   Everything is always 100% perfect!   The fact that much of what I find is different than my personal experience must be my imagination.   Just like such famous statements in repair manuals like, "A gentle tap will release the part" and "Assembly is the reverse of disassembly".

Speaking of gentle taps, I had a hell of a time removing the timing gear cover from the '64 engine today.   It is secured by a half-dozen bolts and three studs.   Yes, the aluminum cover was frozen to the three steel studs.   It took over an hour of tapping (OK, whacking) with a dead-blow hammer and lots of Kroil before it finally came off.   Much more of this and my arms will look like Popeye's.   

What with taking the cat to the vet, running errands, etc., I only got about four hours of work done today.   But Sunday looks good for an all-day session.   I just have to remember to slather myself with sun block or I'll look like a cooked lobster by afternoon.

Check the main and rod bearings themselves very carefully. I've never been inside a Snipe motor, but in the past I have seen main bearings which are slotted or grooved. The idea is that oil travels from the oil gallery to the bearing, which then channels oil along the groove to another oil passage in the block or sometimes the crank journal. That passage may go to another main which then feeds the rod bearings through the crank itself. If the wrong bearing is installed, it can block off the secondary feed hole. Usually the upper half is grooved, the bottom is not but there are also full circle grooved bearings (both pieces are grooved).

These bearings show both the full groove and also some of them have two holes.

The oil pump itself could be a problem. Two things come to mind: if the pressure relief valve is sticking open a bit, it's possible for it to still have sorta decent oil pressure but the volume is way low. Sometimes (like on Triumph and MG engines) the relief valve is in the block, not in the pump itself.

If it's a Hoburn Eaton rotor pump like this:

they generally do not self prime unless immersed in oil and sometimes they are mounted up high, driven off the cam or etc. To get them to prime it needs to be packed with Vaseline or similar. If it doesn't self prime the rod bearing furthest from the pump will not get oil quickly on startup, that can lead to a big problem. The measurement between the tip of the inner rotor and the outer rotor needs to be pretty tight as well, IIRC less than .006.

Junkyard Dog, your comments are appreciated, along with everyone else's.   You point out some important issues.

The bearings in the Super Snipe do not have a groove in the back -- it is in the bearing caps.   But I did go look, just to make sure!   

The oil pump is very similar to the one in your photo, just like the one in my Triumph TR4.   The gap on both of mine appear to be close to zero, but I haven't measured it yet.   I was unaware of the priming problem, so I will be sure to address that.   Are you sure that Vaseline won't cause any problems?

Your comment on the plugs in the block are precisely correct.   I just hadn't gotten around to removing them, but that's at the top of my priority list for today, along with the pressure relief valve.   I had run out of zip-lock bags to keep parts organized, hence the delay.

For cleaning, I'm using the Harbor Freight degreaser for external parts and initial cleaning.   For internal parts I use Klean-Strip paint thinner in a recirculating washer.   You can't get it in Southern California any more, but a friend brought me three 5-gallon cans from Utah.   The crappy stuff you can get here now costs almost $20 a gallon, but the "good stuff" from Utah is only(?) $8.   For the really bad gunk, I use Berryman 905 Chem-Dip.   Again, you can't buy it in So-Cal any more, and it costs over $100 for a 5-gallon can shipped from out of state.

With our favorite cleaners no longer available, and substitutes costing $20 a gallon, I've seen people turning to gasoline for cleaning!   Even at $4.50/gallon, it is cheaper than cleaners that don't work as well.   I'm horrified by this practice and am sure someone is going to die in a terrible fire before long.   Such are the unintended consequences of the AQMD regulations.

I had a bit of an accident with some solvent Friday afternoon.   I was leaning over the tank, and my cell phone popped off my belt and dropped into the solvent!   I was certain that it was ruined, but I dried it off, removed the battery, and set everything out in the sun to dry.   The display is a bit fuzzy now, but it still works!   The only problem is that it now stinks of dirty solvent.   Perhaps it is time to start thinking of upgrading my phone to something less than ten years old.   

I thought I saw a groove in the front main bearing upper saddle but thought it might have been a reflection.

Vaseline will almost immediately dissolve in oil, so it's not a problem to use it. If the pump hangs under the motor and is immersed in oil (the way a small block Ford, MGB, your TR4 etc are done) then priming is generally not needed. Check it like this: mount the oil pump, then stick the dipstick in. See where the full mark on the dipstick winds up in relation to the pump gears. If it's above the gears, they are immersed in oil and won't need priming. If the pump is immersed, it does not hurt in any way if you do decide to pack the gears with Vaseline.

I've seen lacquer thinner used as a parts cleaner, it does a great job but the low flash point worries me. I have used diesel fuel with good results, too.

EDIT: It spun #1 rod, and #6 looked a little rough too, correct? In the average inline engine, those are the last 2 to get fed oil because they are furthest from the oil pump.

I am going to SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) that #1 rod feeds from the #1 main bearing. That means you should be able to stick a piece of stiff wire in the #1 rod journal oil hole and have it come out in the #1 main journal oil hole. Generally, a main which feeds a rod journal will have a grooved bearing so the rod gets a continual flow of oil, as in: oil pump pressurizes galley, galley feeds main journal through oil hole in block, oil lubricates main journal and is forced under pressure through the main bearing groove into the hole in the main journal, then to the connecting rod journal. If there is no groove on the side of the bearing that faces the crank journal, the only time the rod journal gets oil is the few milliseconds a revolution that the hole in the main journal and the hole in the bearing line up. Thus having the groove on the block side of the main bearing won't help feed the rod journal. I'd stick some stiff wire into those rod journal oil holes, see exactly where the rod journal gets its oil and go from there.

It may turn out that all of the rods are fed from one main journal. Weird, but not unheard of.

Okay, those bearings are correctly grooved to supply oil to the rod journals 100% of the time. The groove behind the bearing (in the block and cap) will have no effect on feeding the rods etc, that was probably something they did to help cool the bearing.

What WILL have an effect: main bearing to journal clearance. If that's too big, well oil under pressure is like a lot of people we all know: it's lazy and takes the easiest way out. So I'd Plastigage the bearings, make sure the clearance is within specs. Usually it's spec'd somewhere between .002 and .004. If it's, say, .006 or greater then yes that is enough room for a sizeable oil pressure loss.

OK, it's official: I am pretty sure that the car will be ready for Buttonwillow, and I'm looking for drivers.   Here is the Help Wanted thread: http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewt … p?id=16326

If you've read this thread to this point, you will understand why I'm looking for people with a sense of humor and low expectations.

I plan to start reassembling the engine this weekend.   I have both Friday and Monday off, but family commitments on Sunday.   If anyone near to northeast Los Angeles (Glendale area) wants to drop by and get their hands dirty with me, you are welcome.   Just give me an e-mail first (link at left) so I'll know you are coming and give you any last-minute changes in plan.

Ah, good, I thought I was the only one who did that.

It's killin' me waiting for an update. Tell me the babes got the engine together.

I didn't get quite as much done on the car today as I had hoped.   I went to turn on the kitchen sink faucet and it came off in my hand -- with the water on.   Only two trips to the hardware store and I got a new faucet installed.

On the Super Snipe engine, the block is clean enough to eat off of -- if you don't mind a light coating of WD-40.   All the oil passages were flushed with solvent (paint thinner) and compressed air until it ran clear.   Likewise the crankshaft.

I lightly honed the cylinders to remove some light rust & varnish deposits, and generally clean them up.

The crank from the '64 is now installed, as is the original camshaft and timing gears.   The bearings from the '64 were in pretty good condition.   I measured .003" end float on the crank and .003" to .004" on the cam, right in the middle of the specifications!   Using Plastigage, the main bearing clearance is .002" to .003", just a tiny bit over spec, but just what you would expect for used bearings on a used crank.   Doing these checks is gross overkill for a Lemons engine, but it cost almost nothing and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about the engine.   Heck, it's already broken in!

The rings turned out to be in really crappy condition, but I'm expecting a set in the mail on Tuesday.   Fortunately(?), there is plenty of work that can be done until then.   Between the random collection of gaskets the previous owner sold me and my own creative gasket making, I can get most things put back on the block.   A set of NOS gaskets is also on the way from Holland, which will cover the remaining difficult ones.

The crankshaft oil seal in the timing gear cover needs to be replaced.   I hope I can find an auto parts store open on Sunday or Monday that will have something that will work.   I wish I had discovered that before the holiday weekend.

Richard came over to give advice and laugh at my efforts.   He also took a photo of me and my helper of the day:

Uh, yeah, something like that.  The car, yes, the car.   

Yes, I finished the cage back in January.   I worked very hard to make it meet all Lemons requirements, and am confident it will pass inspection.   The seat is installed.   The belts are not yet installed because I didn't want them sitting out in the weather, but I have them here.

Things that need to be done:

• Wire the kill switch.   The mounting tab is already welded in place and I have all the parts, but the switch and wires need to be installed.

• Bolt in the fire extinguisher bracket.

• Weld a "tow" ring to the front frame.

• Buy, mount, and wire some extra lights.

• Mount and wire the cool suit stuff.

• Put numbers on the body.

• Find three people crazy enough to drive this POS.

• Find a truck and trailer to rent.

Obviously, I'm going to be working a lot of evenings between now and the race.

No, and that is what really disturbs me.   None of the oil passages were even remotely clogged or even restricted.   There was a thin film of crud, but nothing that would cause a problem.   I had hoped to find a "root cause", but am totally frustrated.   Richard and I have talked it over several times without coming to any conclusion.

My best guess is that simply replacing the bad (original) rod bearings without polishing the crank journal is what led to the failure.   As you may recall, the #1 crank journal was scored the worst, with #2 not quite so bad.   I'm guessing that the scored journal dug into the new bearing, causing so much friction that it eventually spun the bearing.   At that point the oil pressure plummeted, depriving the other bearings of oil, leading to the damage I found on them.

Admittedly, this is grasping at straws, but I cannot think of anything else.   I really wish I knew what happened, because I'm going to worry about it.

I won't have much time to work on it today.   I have to go to two events this afternoon.   One happy -- a BBQ celebrating the release of a friend from the hospital after spending a few weeks in the ICU for an infection caused by a minor cut on his leg.   The other is a wake for another friend who didn't make it.      Both remind me that life is short and should be enjoyed to the fullest.   It's why I'm doing Lemons.