176

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I'm a little late to the party, but I just wanted to say what a cool build this was. I've just spent the past little while reading your installments and am really impressed with what you've done.  Thanks for the entertainment!

Knoxvegas Lowballers  Metro SVT, Multi-Powertrain-Van, The Hooptiecorn
2013 - Heroic Fix, Judge's Choice, Heroic Fix       2014 - IOE,Class-C Win
2015- Judge's Choice, Class B Win,Class A/Overall Win     2016- Org. Choice, B

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

trekkor wrote:
CowDriver wrote:

Just for fun, I'm driving the Super Snipe to work this morning.   If I'm lucky, I'll get the parking spot next to the CEO.

We'll need pictures of that!

OK, here you go:

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1563a.JPG

He parks out by the fence to avoid getting his precious Land Rover scratched or dinged.   When he looked out the window and saw my POS parked next to it, he looked like he had seen a turd in the punchbowl!   smile

Needless to say, the production workers loved it.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

lol You should have backed into that spot just to get another picture of its ugly face (that thing is freaking beautiful)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

dana_h_acdc wrote:

lol You should have backed into that spot just to get another picture of its ugly face (that thing is freaking beautiful)

Yeah, but then people wouldn't see the giant Lemons sticker nor the slow moving vehicle sign.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

*applause*


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Episode 22: Mix and Match

Although this is being written after the 24 hour race at Buttonwillow (June 30), it covers events in the last half of May, 2012.

When we last left the engine rebuild, the '59 engine was completely torn down and ready to put back together.   But I still needed to finish stripping the '64 engine to find which parts were the best to go in the rebuilt engine.

I discovered that a couple of the pistons in the '64 had broken rings (not from me trying to remove them), and most of them were frozen in their grooves.   I finally got them all out without breaking any more, but it was a bitch of a job.

A ring groove cleaner didn't work for me, so I wound up using pieces of broken rings.   My fingers were really sore after doing the pistons from both engines.

I now had the parts from two engines spread all over my patio, each one labeled with which engine it had come from.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1210a.JPG

Besides the broken piston described earlier (Episode 19), I found another piston from the '64 that has a small chunk missing from it.   That engine sure had a hard life!

With two of the pistons in the '64 too damaged to use, and the '64 block enough different to preclude using some of the better components, I made the decision to use the original block and pistons.   After that, it would be a total mix-and-match.

The crank and bearings in the '59 were an almost total loss, so those parts would come from the '64.   Despite the horrible condition of the pistons, all the main and rod bearings looked beautiful.

After all my earlier problems, I was totally paranoid about lubrication.   I queried you guys about the best assembly lube to use and was impressed with the reports of Royal Purple Assembly Lube.   It's expensive ($18 at O'Reilly), and I used it generously on every bearing.   For the cam lobes, however, I stuck with the traditional black moly assembly lube.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1215a.JPG

Both cams looked good, so I stuck with the original.   The solid lifters, however, were a different story.   Some of them had pitting that indicated that the case hardening had worn through or otherwise failed:

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1181a.JPG

Although everyone told me that it was important to put each lifter in its original position, they also agreed that I should use the best lifters I had.   I replaced the worst lifters from the '59 with the best ones from the '64 until I had the best possible set.   In a perfect world, I would have searched for new compatible lifters, but I was behind schedule.   Does anyone know if it is possible to buy lifters by specifying diameter and length?

With a large assortment of worn and broken piston rings, I was facing some hard choices, when suddenly a miracle occured: a set of brand new rings appeared on ebay!   A few days later I was installing them.   Having learned earlier how fragile rings are, it was with fear and trembling that I installed them.   Richard's ring expander tool was invaluable for this.

I had cleaned up the cylinders with a ridge reamer and lightly honed them, so now the question was how well the rings fit. Before installing them on the pistons, I fitted them in each bore and measured the end gap.   At the very top of the bore (where the ridge had been) the end gap was 0.009".   Just below that (where the wear was maximum) it varied from 0.015" to 0.023".   Nearer the bottom of the bore, it was back to 0.017".   A bit over spec, but a lot better than the 0.040"+ (in some cases a lot +) that I had been seeing!

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1260a.JPG

I also checked all the bearing clearances and end float, and everything was well within specs.   Mains are 0.002" and rods are .001" to .0015".   End float of the crank is .003", right in the middle of the specs, and the cam end float is between .003" and .004", right on spec.

The clearances were checked with Plastigage.   For those unfamiliar with it, it is a precision small-diameter plastic rod that is placed between the bearing and journal, then torqued to spec and removed.   The width it gets squished out to is then measured with the provided scale, giving the clearance.   This photo shows using both the red (.002 to .006) and green (.001 to .003) varieties.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1226a.JPG

Running short of time, I still had not ground or even checked the valves.   I decided to do a redneck check and see if I could get by without a valve job.   I set the head on its side and filled the intake ports with solvent.   An hour later, they were still full to the brim.   Repeating with the exhaust valves gave the same result.   Good enough to take a chance with.

Crazy Mike had spotted a head gasket for sale on a site in the Netherlands, but I still had to make many others.   Some of them were easy, but others took a bit of work:

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1233a.JPG
http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1234a.JPG
http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1238a.JPG

Even though they looked extremely clean, I disassembled, cleaned, and re-assembled the rocker arms & shafts.   I'm glad I did, since one of the rockers was almost frozen to the shaft.   I used a diamond file to clean up the shaft until the arm moved freely.

I had intended to finish the reassembly by Memorial Day, but didn't quite make it.   However, a few evening sessions later and it was done, except for accessories like the generator and starter.

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1332a.JPG

After all this, however, I am still disturbed by the letters POS stamped on the block.   Whatever could this mean?   smile

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1239a.JPG

Next: The Home Stretch

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

182

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

http://www.nelsonusa.com/alan/snipe/IMG_1332a.JPG

That is a magnificent looking engine, and it ran beautifully all weekend. It's really sort of a crime that that three-liter behemoth is fed through a one-barrel Zenith with a throat the size of a soda straw. Okay 1-11/16", but still...

183 (edited by Junkyard Dog 2012-07-04 04:04 PM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I take it the Super Snipe:

1) Lived.

dos.) Won IOE (congratulations!)

iii) Finished the whiole thing

quattro) Will come back to race again.

Outstanding!

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

184

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Junkyard Dog wrote:

I take it the Super Snipe:

1) Lived.

dos.) Won IOE (congratulations!)

iii) Finished the whiole thing

quattro) Will come back to race again.

Outstanding!

And:

101) Not only passed the Titanic, but lapped it several times!

185

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Alan, if you want to try a nice pair of side-draft carbs, this set of Hitachis is yours for the asking. I think they came from Datsun 510. I got them from my mother's garage when closing out her estate. I'm not sure why she had them. They're about the right size for the 240Z she had at the time, but they came on a manifold that is obviously for a four-banger. You and Spank could cook up a pair of 1-into-3 manifolds and make it rain nickels!

http://www.hpaircraft.com/Lemons/Photo097.jpg

http://www.hpaircraft.com/Lemons/Photo098.jpg

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

BoKu wrote:

Alan, if you want to try a nice pair of side-draft carbs, this set of Hitachis is yours for the asking.

You have an odd interpretation of the word "nice".   smile   Those carbs look like what I would imagine a Soviet version of an SU would look like!   smile

Yes, that engine certainly needs better breathing.   I'm thinking of TBI, but I need to get an education first.   Or I could stick with a carb by analyzing the volume inhaled by the engine and getting a common carb from an engine with similar requirements.   But again, I need to get an education on carbs first.

Before I do that, however, I need to address:

  • The extremely noisy (and getting worse)  rear end

  • Shocks

  • Front suspension

  • Steering

  • Transmission

I've got a couple of friends with ties to the old hot rod culture, so I'm going to be picking their brains for help with these issues.   They've already given me some good ideas on how to swap in a manual transmission.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

187

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

CowDriver wrote:
BoKu wrote:

Alan, if you want to try a nice pair of side-draft carbs, this set of Hitachis is yours for the asking.

You have an odd interpretation of the word "nice".   smile   Those carbs look like what I would imagine a Soviet version of an SU would look like!   smile...

You're right, they do look a bit unrefined on the outside. But in my experience, Japanese copies of British and European automobilia are almost always superior to the originals.

But I have to agree, improving the steering and suspension should have a higher priority on the action list.

Thanks again, Bob K.

188 (edited by Parkwod60 2012-07-05 11:43 AM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Rear end? Easiest thing int he world, its leaf sprung, right? with a 5" x 5 lug bolt pattern? If I'm not mistaken that would be the same as many Chevy trucks:

CHEVROLET 1/2 TON BLAZER, JIMMY, SUB FULL SIZE 2X4 71-91
CHEVROLET 1/2 TON TRUCK ALL MODELS 2X4 67-87
CHEVROLET 1/2 TON TRUCK ALL MODELS 2X4 88-98
CHEVROLET 1500 ½ Ton P/U (2WD) 88-98
CHEVROLET ALL 5-LUG HALF TON TRUCKS up to 99
CHEVROLET ASTRO/SAFARI 85-on
CHEVROLET Suburban 1500 (2WD) 88-98
CHEVROLET TAHOE, YUKON 2X4 92-99
CHEVROLET VAN G-SERIES 1/2 TON 71-96

Should be easy to find something there that is close to the same width. I'm thinking the Astro van?

http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods … dSpreadMM=

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

My vote would be to sort the suspension and steering, then a manual trans.

I bet the Zenith carb can actually be rejetted to work adequately- you should grab the manual and unscrew the main jet holder and clean it, and then find some number drills and go to town on the main jet until it will pull cleanly with an open/high flow air cleaner.

I think the idle/transition was decent, though the idle can still be improved.
Unleash the full 120hp on tap, then start looking at crazier fueling.

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 143 races and counting.
2/25/24

190

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

X-args wrote:

...I bet the Zenith carb can actually be rejetted to work adequately- you should grab the manual and unscrew the main jet holder and clean it, and then find some number drills and go to town on the main jet until it will pull cleanly with an open/high flow air cleaner.

I think the idle/transition was decent, though the idle can still be improved.
Unleash the full 120hp on tap, then start looking at crazier fueling.

According to this page, the carb is a Zenith 42 WIA:
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel … thCarb.htm

Yup, that looks about right. The picture here looks the same as the one in Alan's service manual:
http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk/Zeni … thSP44.htm

It looks like the Sunbeam Alpine guys seem to have a good Zenith manual for download (3.6MB pdf):
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/downloads/zenith.pdf

The main jet on Alan's is stamped 170, so it should be about right. I'd guess you're right and there is some crud somewhere in the main jet circuit, maybe in the thingy above the main jet numbered 22 in the picture above. I'd double check everything in that hole before changing anything irreversibly.

These guys might have gaskets available:
http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/WIAtype.html

Thanks, Bob K.

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Bob, I'm as big a fan of Hitachi SUs as they come (may my 240Z rest in peace) but those are '73-74 240Z carbs. The ones that made the factory throw in the towel and go EFI. They probably got yanked in favor of the far superior '70-72 Z carbs. The "tuna can" edge at the top of the dome gives them away- early Hitachis are shaped just like real SUs.

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

BTW, do you have any evidence of whether those sweet-looking side panels are meant to be H for Humber, or H for Hawker?

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

193

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Type44 wrote:

Bob, I'm as big a fan of Hitachi SUs as they come (may my 240Z rest in peace) but those are '73-74 240Z carbs. The ones that made the factory throw in the towel and go EFI. They probably got yanked in favor of the far superior '70-72 Z carbs. The "tuna can" edge at the top of the dome gives them away- early Hitachis are shaped just like real SUs.

Thanks, Rob, that's interesting! I'm sure you're right, of course, but it does make the four-cylinder manifold (two intake ports per carb) they came on a bit more of a mystery. Probably some mix'n'match mess her mechanic bought to try to keep the old Z running.

Thanks, Bob K.,

194 (edited by Junkyard Dog 2012-07-07 06:15 AM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

I think I'd try the TBI route. The throttle body off a mid/late '80's 2.3 Tempo or 2.5 Taurus should be common as dirt. That would be pretty easy to adapt to the intake. The ECM and wiring harness are separate from the main harness, easy to adapt. The fuel pressure requirement is pretty low (~10 psi or so, IIRC) and the throttle position sensor etc would already be on the TB. Add an O2 sensor, coolant temp sensor and fuel return line, drive on.

From some quick Googling, this is a pretty common upgrade for the 200ci Ford six shooter which has the intake cast as part of the head. If it'll work for the 200 six, no reason it shouldn't work for the Snipe and it also means that you aren't having to reinvent the wheel. smile

About the M/T conversion: in case you can't come up with a M/T flywheel, there's the clutch assemblies that are pretty common nowadays. For instance, the Dodge Caliber uses it, the pp/flywheel are riveted together with the disc in place and the best part: it bolts to an A/T type flexplate. wink If the bellhousing comes off the Borg Warner A/T's you have, then make an adapter plate to mount, say, an older Ford/Chevy 3 speed to the BH, then use one of those assemblies bolted to the original flexplate. Voila: M/T.

Fox body Mustangs and T Birds had a removeable pedal box which should be fairly easy to mount in the Snipe.

EDIT: One thread I found dealing with the Ford 6 TBI swap. Good info there. http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38349

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Junkyard Dog wrote:

I think I'd try the TBI route. The throttle body off a mid/late '80's 2.3 Tempo or 2.5 Taurus should be common as dirt. That would be pretty easy to adapt to the intake. The ECM and wiring harness are separate from the main harness, easy to adapt. The fuel pressure requirement is pretty low (~10 psi or so, IIRC) and the throttle position sensor etc would already be on the TB. Add an O2 sensor, coolant temp sensor and fuel return line, drive on.

From some quick Googling, this is a pretty common upgrade for the 200ci Ford six shooter which has the intake cast as part of the head. If it'll work for the 200 six, no reason it shouldn't work for the Snipe and it also means that you aren't having to reinvent the wheel. smile

About the M/T conversion: in case you can't come up with a M/T flywheel, there's the clutch assemblies that are pretty common nowadays. For instance, the Dodge Caliber uses it, the pp/flywheel are riveted together with the disc in place and the best part: it bolts to an A/T type flexplate. wink If the bellhousing comes off the Borg Warner A/T's you have, then make an adapter plate to mount, say, an older Ford/Chevy 3 speed to the BH, then use one of those assemblies bolted to the original flexplate. Voila: M/T.

Fox body Mustangs and T Birds had a removeable pedal box which should be fairly easy to mount in the Snipe.

EDIT: One thread I found dealing with the Ford 6 TBI swap. Good info there. http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38349

I actually mentioned this very TBI unit to Type44 at Buttonwillow when talking about Snipe upgrades. But TBI doesn't really net you any additional power, it just swaps the vacu-mechanical gremlins of a carburetor for the electro-mechanical bugaboos of sensors and computers. Fuel Injection can lead to more power if the motor is tweaked and given a big ass cam, but I doubt a performance cam for the Snipe six will be forthcoming.

3 side draft 1bbl carbs (Jaguar? Datsun? motorcycle?), or the self contained side draft injection units Marc used on the radial MR2 would allow a lot more air to get in. Plenty of room under there to fabricate 2-1 manifolds out of exhaust tubing. The exhaust side already consists of two 3 into 1 cast iron manifolds and a cast iron Y bolted to it. Ditch the Y and put on 2" duals with glass packs exiting in front of the rear wheel.

I would think those are the easy upgrades giving you a much better top end without losing much on the bottom.. A little more compression couldn't hurt either

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

You can always take the cam and have it reground with a reduced base circle. wink

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

For some added top end oomph, you can also retard the cam timing. Used to do that on Fiats a lot, the engine didn't want to idle too great but at higher RPM it would wake up. Advancing the cam timing has the opposite effect.

About going with that TBI: after many moons of rassling carbs, it finally occured to me that fuel injection replaces all my guesswork and screwdriver twirling with a magic box containing a very small and very intelligent mechanic who does all that for me. I don't have to carry boxes full of brass, read the air temp, humidity, air density, phases of the moon, driver's sock size etc and then make a SWAG from that, only to have it all change in 1/2 hour when it started pouring down rain. That's what he's there for. tongue That's why we went from a carbed 351W in a T Bird to a 1.5 FI 4 banger in a Civic; we not only started finishing without working on the damn thing all the time (thus leaving more beer time), we started finishing better. smile

For that matter, there's no reason a larger TBI from a 3.8 couldn't be adapted to the Snipe intake with some fabrication of a adapter plate welded to the intake. For that matter, no reason it couldn't be done with 2 or 3 of those TBI's, maybe the ones from the Escort 1.6's. Now that would look pretty cool.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Wow, you guys are giving me some great ideas!   This is what I love about the Lemons fraternity.   I now have good ideas for the rear end, transmission, and carburetion.   All I need now is some ideas on how to fix that absolutely wonky front suspension and steering.   smile

I'm going to do my best to stay within the spirit of Lemons for the upgrades, but since Phil gave me a 17 cent residual value for the Super Snipe, that gives me a bit to play with.   smile   I need to take a few weeks off to catch up on real-life stuff, but then I'll be fixing it up for Chuckwalla.   Thanks to everyone, even our sadistic Chief Justice!   smile

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

199 (edited by Team Infinniti 2012-07-07 03:12 PM)

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

The Astro, S10 and van rear ends will be the easiest and are a dime a  dozen,the s10 being 7.5 ring gear you will huge gear selection.

Any 1500series full size chevy/gmc pickup rear will be hard to find without paying a premium as they are a high demand item.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: True tales of the Super Snipe

Seventeen cents???? He's getting soft...

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)