The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Bench Racing → OTHER crap can races?
If you used the two pit roads instead of the straights, there's your safety margin....just add a chicane at the end of the front "straight" to keep the hoons from shooting up the banking in Two...
Loren wrote:Yeah, that kind of thing would NEVER happen at a Lemons race. Hint: look at the black flag log for the reason "organizer's discretion"... I've seen it, even asked about it, and was told that Jay wanted to make the finish closer! Not saying it's a bad thing, it makes for good racing and an exciting finish. Nobody ever said Lemons was fair.
There is no way in hell Jay would order a car black-flagged in order to make the finish closer.
I didn't make that story up. The gentleman holding the pen on the black flag board told me that when I asked what "organizer's discretion" was about on the LEADING car. Don't know why he'd have made something like that up. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think he further explained it as the other leading car (this was between White Lightning and Lightning McQueen) had been black flagged and they wanted to equalize from that. Some such shit.
Why use "organizer's discretion" instead of just stating "pit speeding" or "caught using slicks"? (I'm a database programmer at heart... garbage in, garbage out... why keep records if they're not gonna be accurate?)
Serj wrote:psh, i said EPIC-LEVEL cheating. remember we're using Smokey Yunick and the "krider scale" for a gauge at these events.
I mean, Look at you guys, you snuck a 4A-GZE engine past the judges and it did you no good
We didn't "sneak" the engine past the judges - we weren't up front about it and weren't asked. And when they did see it and we had to explain its presence not only to the judges but also directly to the man. It's not like we got away with anything. Generally, we aren't out to win the thing - we're having fun with cheap track time in a car we don't care if we wad up. And during the event while the car holds together, we are having a lot of fun in it.
I'm just saying that the more I see, the more I am convinced that the winners are EPIC-LEVEL cheating ( >$500 over budget). Not in the power department, but in the reliability one. In order to win the damn race, you need to be there at the end and I'm sure that every team that has won has looked at the Achilles heel of their car, fixed it, and found a way to hide the fix. I'm willing to bet that every team that has won has had the engine out of thier car. And once it's out, what do you think they are doing with it?
Hey Rob, I'm just giving you guys crap. You guys are a great team, and are really with the spirit of the event. I think you still have the best engine acquisition story ever. Sorry if i got under your skin with that comment. I'm trying to make a point that at the end of the day the sneaky sneaky stuff really won't get anyone much of anywhere in these events. Besides, it feels SO MUCH BETTER to win when people look at your ride and firmly believe you shouldn't.
Sorry, "snuck" just has the wrong connotation to it.
evidence that the car is running slicks
Leave slicks at home- check!
KT
My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think he further explained it as the other leading car (this was between White Lightning and Lightning McQueen) had been black flagged and they wanted to equalize from that. Some such shit.
A conspiracy theory? On the internet?! It must be true!!!!1!!!1!!!!!
Geez, guys, I'm not claiming conspiracy. Maybe the black flag on the other car was an error (in fact, I seem to recall that IT WAS, but again, fuzzy memory) and Jay was just trying to make things fair for them?
My point was that these races are very much run "dictatorship" style, and that's no secret. If Jay wants to black flag a car to level the playing field, or because he thinks the car is too damned fast and a team may have pulled one over on the judges, or WHATEVER, he can and he will.
As Jay has said: "If you don't like it, get your own race!"
Loren wrote:My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think he further explained it as the other leading car (this was between White Lightning and Lightning McQueen) had been black flagged and they wanted to equalize from that. Some such shit.
A conspiracy theory? On the internet?! It must be true!!!!1!!!1!!!!!
Man, I was waiting for that comment! Glad it came from you 
Geez, guys, I'm not claiming conspiracy. Maybe the black flag on the other car was an error (in fact, I seem to recall that IT WAS, but again, fuzzy memory) and Jay was just trying to make things fair for them?
My point was that these races are very much run "dictatorship" style, and that's no secret. If Jay wants to black flag a car to level the playing field, or because he thinks the car is too damned fast and a team may have pulled one over on the judges, or WHATEVER, he can and he will.
As Jay has said: "If you don't like it, get your own race!"
You're partly right--if Jay wants to affect the outcome of a race, he can. But he won't. Primarily because he doesn't keep close enough tabs--it's a common misconception that we pay attention to how everyone's doing. Like "uh oh, number 34 is in second place, we can't let THEM win!" When I go up to the tower to get the final printout, half the time I have to ask timing and scoring who's actually winning.
Secondly, we don't care who wins. If we did, a French car would have won the race at least 3 or 4 times by now.
I understand what you're saying, Nick, and it makes perfect sense, who has time to keep up with who's in what position? And it doesn't matter to anybody who wins. But, I was still told what I was told at the last CMP race by an event official.
I think a French car with a 280Z engine would have a solid shot at victory.
I was still told what I was told at the last CMP race by an event official.
If by "event official" you mean one of the dudes with the radios in the penalty box, remember that those dudes have no idea what's actually happening up in T&S.
So, yeah, we totally rig all the races- that's the way we make our Lemons bets in Vegas pay off- but you weren't exactly getting info from the horse's mouth there.
I think a French car with a 280Z engine would have a solid shot at victory.
You just need to incorporate some MR2 stuff and you're golden.
Loren wrote:I think a French car with a 280Z engine would have a solid shot at victory.
You just need to incorporate some MR2 stuff and you're golden.
Take our cooling system... you will win for sure
If you used the two pit roads instead of the straights, there's your safety margin....just add a chicane at the end of the front "straight" to keep the hoons from shooting up the banking in Two...
that might work on the back stretch but not on the front. pit out / pit in would be impossible. it's two holes in the concrete wall for access to the pits.
i would also doubt the turn into the infield course could be made from the backstretch pits. most cars would be off in the grass for sure.
but even still, this place is all concrete, everywhere you look........concrete.
and did i mention the concrete?
scary in a well prepped $15k track car. downright stupid in a $500 car.
Geez, guys, I'm not claiming conspiracy. Maybe the black flag on the other car was an error (in fact, I seem to recall that IT WAS, but again, fuzzy memory) and Jay was just trying to make things fair for them?
My point was that these races are very much run "dictatorship" style, and that's no secret. If Jay wants to black flag a car to level the playing field, or because he thinks the car is too damned fast and a team may have pulled one over on the judges, or WHATEVER, he can and he will.
As Jay has said: "If you don't like it, get your own race!"
hey if Bill France can do it, why shouldn't Jay be allowed the same courtesy.
oh and did anyone else watch Days of Thunder last evening? damn fine movie, damn fine movie.
but even still, this place is all concrete, everywhere you look........concrete.
and did i mention the concrete?
Wait 'til you see Infineon.
We have saying in Nor Cal about our tracks:
"Laguna eats cars...Sears eats people".
See you there!
KT
...and NL eats Cadillacs.
MurileeMartin wrote:Loren wrote:Yeah, that kind of thing would NEVER happen at a Lemons race. Hint: look at the black flag log for the reason "organizer's discretion"... I've seen it, even asked about it, and was told that Jay wanted to make the finish closer! Not saying it's a bad thing, it makes for good racing and an exciting finish. Nobody ever said Lemons was fair.
There is no way in hell Jay would order a car black-flagged in order to make the finish closer.
I didn't make that story up. The gentleman holding the pen on the black flag board told me that when I asked what "organizer's discretion" was about on the LEADING car. Don't know why he'd have made something like that up. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think he further explained it as the other leading car (this was between White Lightning and Lightning McQueen) had been black flagged and they wanted to equalize from that. Some such shit.
Why use "organizer's discretion" instead of just stating "pit speeding" or "caught using slicks"? (I'm a database programmer at heart... garbage in, garbage out... why keep records if they're not gonna be accurate?)
The above is simply 100% not true.
You might be talking about the time the #1 and #2 cars both got black flags at the same time (for bad driving) and we let them do a Bart Simpson-style race where they had to write their offense out 100 times on the car. But that was done in the interest of actually being fair, since they both got black flags (for bad driving) at the same time.
Jonny (and everyone else), the log clearly stated "organizer's discretion", not "bad driving". And I was told what I was told by someone that was not one of the flunky pseudo-judges, but one of the more respected older gentlemen who is often present at CMP races. (sorry, don't know his name)
I'm perfectly willing to let this drop and forget that I ever mentioned it, but please don't imply that I'm lying about it, that I made it up, or that it's a "conspiracy theory".
Jonny (and everyone else), the log clearly stated "organizer's discretion", not "bad driving". And I was told what I was told by someone that was not one of the flunky pseudo-judges, but one of the more respected older gentlemen who is often present at CMP races. (sorry, don't know his name)
I'm perfectly willing to let this drop and forget that I ever mentioned it, but please don't imply that I'm lying about it, that I made it up, or that it's a "conspiracy theory".
Sure, you heard what you heard, but if you didn't hear it directly from Dan Radowicz or Jay it's pretty much gossip.
Sure, you heard what you heard, but if you didn't hear it directly from Dan Radowicz or Jay it's pretty much gossip.
That, I'll buy without question. Nothing gets distorted in translation like the truth.
That, I'll buy without question. Nothing gets distorted in translation like the truth.
Jonny (and everyone else), the log clearly stated "organizer's discretion", not "bad driving". And I was told what I was told by someone that was not one of the flunky pseudo-judges, but one of the more respected older gentlemen who is often present at CMP races. (sorry, don't know his name)
I'm perfectly willing to let this drop and forget that I ever mentioned it, but please don't imply that I'm lying about it, that I made it up, or that it's a "conspiracy theory".
Organizer's discretion entails bad driving. Like if someone is driving like an asshole.
And you are talking about John, the white hairded dude that logs black flags and reports to me.
So you know, organizer's discretion ALSO means a corner worker called in black for aggressive driving -- i.e. Jay probably wasn't even involved.
WARNING!!!! This may be a personal record for long posts.
The head was never flat to begin with either. I don't have a machine shop and the one I use does not work for free but they will probably be shaving my head this time for $40. So I may need to spend up to $150 fixing the motor.
You are sending a head to a machine shop for WHAT??!! damned checkbook racers...
This is a Lemons machine shop:
"Valve job"
Resurfacing the pressure plate
New clutch??!! Frickin' hammer the binding rivets flatter and get a few more miles outta it!
And all of this was for our initial build-- not some mid-race repair.
Spank, why are you posting up pics of my garage without my permission!?
Wait, that's not me, that's another cheap bastard. Phew...
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Bench Racing → OTHER crap can races?
