26 (edited by hoverducky 2012-03-28 10:49 AM)

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

RichVS wrote:

Reverse:  Change the timing and start the engine backwards.  Wheeee!

That's how they usually do it in an electric-start snow-go. 

Scott

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

psychoboy wrote:

the best thing i've come up with thus far is a moving electric motor that runs against the driven pulley, or pulls a belt tight against the axle.

That's one idea High-Mileage Vehicles played around with for the Freeway (the yellow three-wheeler I posted above), but they never got it to work well enough for production.  They also looked into a separate chain drive from a small electric motor to a sprocket on the rear wheel, but that didn't pan out, either.  Production Freeways have no reverse.  Some owners have retrofitted their own solutions.

RichVS wrote:

Reverse:  Change the timing and start the engine backwards.  Wheeee!

Works fine for two-strokes.  Messerschmitt accomplished this with two sets of points, but KV went with electronic timing based on the position and rotational direction of the combination flywheel/starter/alternator (Dynastar) unit for the Mini 1.  It advances the spark appropriately in either direction.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

psychoboy wrote:

....and what did you do for reverse?

Your car doesn't already have a rusted out hole in the floor for pushing backwards?

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II, 2013 Gator-O-Rama (True 24!)
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
2013 Chubba Cheddar Enduro - Organizer's Choice, 2014 Doing Time in Joliet
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Racin_G73 wrote:
psychoboy wrote:

....and what did you do for reverse?

Your car doesn't already have a rusted out hole in the floor for pushing backwards?

What is this 'rust' thing you speak of?   We are in California dude, rust isn't our lexicon.

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Jer wrote:

BS.  There are lots of $500 Miatas.  You have to pay attention and jump on them fast.  I personally have purchased four in the last three years.

BIG BS on your BS.

I LOL +LOLOLOL at the mere notion of prepping a $500 Miata.

I'm not butt-hurt about it...  I'm JUST SAYIN.  smile

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Oh yeah - for the record - BIG Kudos on the two stroke miata!   I LOVE IT!   big_smile

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

32 (edited by Evil Genius 2012-03-28 01:40 PM)

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Ours was a legit sub $500 car.          It was a very nice 1991 Special Edition BRG Miata.   I looked after it for a customer, it got wrecked, right front frame rail bent way in and down, left front bent out.  Bought it for $450 from the customer/insurance company, proceeded to sell off $2500 worth of parts: engine, trans, left door and fender, interior,  seats, dash, air conditioning,  etc, etc.   It is a legit $0 car.    We straightened it between two Ford Super Duties... Scott had a Polaris motor and the build commenced.   

    We could've just sold off some interior and raced it as-is (with a cage of course) as the radiator was even still good, twisted, but holding pressure.          All the accident caused warpage was in front of the front subframe.. So it still drove great!   

    There are sub $500 Miata's out there.  Just bought one yesterday for $1300 with a hard-top.      It has a broken timing belt, but is otherwise perfect..straight and rust free (California, remember?)   I can sell the top right now for $1000, a timing belt for $28 and you have a potential Lemons winner...   And, yes, I can document it all, as I can with Balto.


   That said, I have no interest in bringing a stock Miata to Lemons.. Just not challenging or weird enough for me.

    (edit)  The bent frame on Balto was fortuitous, as the left rail being bent out gave us just enough room for the tuned expansion pipes.

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Evil Genius wrote:
Racin_G73 wrote:
psychoboy wrote:

....and what did you do for reverse?

Your car doesn't already have a rusted out hole in the floor for pushing backwards?

What is this 'rust' thing you speak of?   We are in California dude, rust isn't our lexicon.

Sure, you are.  But he (psychoboy) isn't.

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II, 2013 Gator-O-Rama (True 24!)
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
2013 Chubba Cheddar Enduro - Organizer's Choice, 2014 Doing Time in Joliet
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

one of my options still has most of the floor, you can't really reach the ground from the seat in the other.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

While Balto is a noble name, I think you missed a great opportunity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UU62UcP_BA

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

RichVS wrote:

Reverse:  Change the timing and start the engine backwards.  Wheeee!

mharrell wrote:

Works fine for two-strokes.  Messerschmitt accomplished this with two sets of points, but KV went with electronic timing based on the position and rotational direction of the combination flywheel/starter/alternator (Dynastar) unit for the Mini 1.  It advances the spark appropriately in either direction.

1959(thru '62?) Mercury 80hp & 70hp inline 6 outboard - motor ran backwards for reverse:  the lower unit had a fixed bevel gear set. No shifting for neutral or reverse.  Merc called them "direct reversing" My family got an 80hp right about 1972.

It had a points ignition in an automotive style distributor: the throttle lever rotated the distributor housing which changed timing for low throttle control.  Moving the lever behind the 'neutral' (motor stalls) position retimed the distributor for the opposite rotation, and a relay reversed polarity for the starter motor.

http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/200 … ure30.html

I love 2-strokes, and applaud this Lemons Miata!

Viking

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Some video taken by Nick.. We had pulled in for fuel and we flooded it on restarting... took a bit of work to get it going again.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbS4mVxYD4

-John

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Evil Genius wrote:

Some video taken by Nick.. We had pulled in for fuel and we flooded it on restarting... took a bit of work to get it going again.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbS4mVxYD4

-John

Speeding in the pits?  Flag 'em!

Speedycop/NSF Racing /Pinewood Dirtbags
'10 Summit, CMP3, Autobahn, '11 CMP1, NJMP, CMP2, Summit, G'man, Stafford, Charlotte, Autobahn, ECR '12 CMP1, NJMP, G'man, NHMS1, Summit, CMP2, NHMS2, ECR, '13 CMP1, ECR, Summit, NJMP, THill, CMP2, MSR, NHMS, Sears '14 Barber, Sears1, ECR, CMP1, NJMP1, BWillow, Sebring, CMP2, THill, Sears2, '15 Sears1, Barber, Ridge, THill, '16 Sears1

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

I'm sorry I couldn't make it up to see Balto for real - that's brilliant simplicity + cheap-assness + fabrication skills all in one!  I could _almost_ imagine a sub-Spec Miata class in Lemons (that'd make Class X a fun(ner) one to watch!) based around that idea.  I know I'd rather drive that mutt than most any other car out there. . .

-Jeff

40 (edited by RobL 2012-03-29 05:31 AM)

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Team Sensory Assault wrote:
Jer wrote:

BS.  There are lots of $500 Miatas.  You have to pay attention and jump on them fast.  I personally have purchased four in the last three years.

BIG BS on your BS.

I LOL +LOLOLOL at the mere notion of prepping a $500 Miata.

I'm not butt-hurt about it...  I'm JUST SAYIN.  smile

They're legit.  Jer and I fight over cheap cars when they appear - the ads get posted to our internal forum.  I've lost the Miatas every time because I'm not fast enough and/or not willing to drive 300+ miles to pick up a car I can't fit in.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

RobL wrote:
Team Sensory Assault wrote:
Jer wrote:

BS.  There are lots of $500 Miatas.  You have to pay attention and jump on them fast.  I personally have purchased four in the last three years.

BIG BS on your BS.

I LOL +LOLOLOL at the mere notion of prepping a $500 Miata.

I'm not butt-hurt about it...  I'm JUST SAYIN.  smile

They're legit.  Jer and I fight over cheap cars when they appear - the ads get posted to our internal forum.  I've lost the Miatas every time because I'm not fast enough and/or not willing to drive 300+ miles to pick up a car I can't fit in.

^^^ Thats what ALL the guys that show up in Miatas say.

That - and that old ass story about how it had a hard top on it and they sold it to make the car legit.  It was good for the first team that came up with that excuse but the everyone else needs to come up with a new story.

I ain't buyin it. 

SHOW me a single car on your "internal forum" that can be bought and prepped for $500 minus safety equipment.    Since there are lots and lots of them it should be no problem.   We are in agreement that Unicorn Cars are quickly sold - but the ad should remain unless its CL..

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

our miata was bought, wrecked in a DUI, from an impound lot for the asking of $600, long before we thought about making it a Lemons car. if we had known we were going to go to Lemons with it, we probably could have talked it down to $500. as it is, we just eat the laps and move along.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

That - and that old ass story about how it had a hard top on it and they sold it to make the car legit.  It was good for the first team that came up with that excuse but the everyone else needs to come up with a new story.

I have two friends that have started Miata based kit cars.  Both of them bought trashed-but-running Miatas and sold off the bits they didn't need.  They both ended up in the black while still retaining all of the engine/transmission/suspension. 

Needless to say, neither one has finished their kit.  One gave up entirely after the second kid came along.  The other is still unmarried, so there is still hope.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Here is one that the team just picked up:

Surferjer wrote:

The motor is an NB 1.8, so that's an improvement...I don't think we really know what to make of it, except that it was a great deal.  Adjustable shocks, OBX header and exhaust, etc it's all set for mega penalties.  Lemons would probably crucify us despite the ad and bill of sale.  Chump would definitely crucify us.  Maybe we take parts off and keep the rest for future needs.  Or strip and sell.  Or build next winter.
hudson valley craigslist > for sale / wanted > cars & trucks - by owner


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2012-03-19, 8:22PM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


How you doing I have a 1991 Mazda Miata 5 speed with a 1.8L swap. It has kyb agx shocks with adjustable damper, obx headers, obx exhaust. The issues is that the top is ripped and is missing headlights. The car has only one spec of rust. It runs and drives perfect no issues. I heard with the 18l makes it really fast. I don't know because I don't beat on my cars. You can text me at 8456294589 for pictures. $700 firm.


Location: Newburgh
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interest

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/Surferjer/IMG_1429.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/Surferjer/IMG_2581.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/Surferjer/IMG_3763.jpg

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

So, I'm sure we could sell the engine and have a free chassis, sell the aftermarket seats and interior and have a couple of bucks left over for...???  The car is ready to go as it sits...

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

I have no doubt that there are also regional price differences - convertibles just aren't as popular up here in the NE as they are in TX so the resale is lower.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

and again, we get into the "i bought a $400 car" versus "i bought a $700 car and sold $300 worth of parts off it, so it's a $400 car" discussion.

both are legit in the eyes of the Lemons court, regardless of the opinions of the rest of us.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

^^^ Yeah I can buy the regional reasoning.  Convertibles are cheaper North and the really cool old stuff seems to be in the California Time Capsule.   

I would agree that red miata is a genuine $700 turd.  However, it is NOT a crappy $500 turn and there is no mythical hard top or even a soft top that will get you there.  In fact, it is so crappy I see no way you can reasonably sell off $200 of stuff.    MAYBE $100 and thats pushing it.

Miatas teams need to just suck up 10 penalty laps minimum.  More usually.

But hey, I don'r run the event.  I just run my mouth.  smile

I'm not in Lemons to race - so much as to enjoy the sideshow and spectacle.  I'm only interested in keeping crappy car racing - CRAPPY!

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

49 (edited by RobL 2012-03-29 08:54 AM)

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

Well - I don't think you understand how easy it is to sell Miata parts.

Off the top of my head - Seats are $50 each (these are good condition aftermarket).  Each straight body panel {hood, trunk, fenders, door skins, etc.} $20-$40 with a non-straight exchange panel from a spec miata driver.  Dash and in-dash controls - $40-60 total.  Carpet $20.  OBX exhaust $50.  Door glass $10 per pane.  CAI $40 with stock exchange. 

That's almost $450 in honest sales right there.

Having a big spec miata contingent and racetrack (NJMP) local makes these sales easy.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: How we built the 2-stroke Miata.. some pics, links, thoughts and bs

if the plastic between the taillights is still there....even more cash (i don't know why that piece is the first to die on every nice car)

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C