The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Common e30 problems?
Ooh! You got the video! Please share.
We didn't get the video yet ... the still photo was stolen from their facebook page!
Hmmm.... Let me rephrase my question: stolen from whose fb page?
Why enter an E30, when there are so many other options available?
You want a rear wheel drive car, with an awesome inline 6 cylinder motor, time-tested design, lightweight, cheap to buy, easy to fix and find parts for? Well, I've got 2 words and an exclamation point for you my friend,
Dodge Dart!
Its like the E30 of the 1960s!
Ross2004
Yea, we did the same thing. We had read about "E30s" and how they were hated, so not knowing anything about BMWs we bought a "325e" thinking that it was something different than an e30. We knew nothing. 
Oh well, that was 3 years ago.
People talk a lot of shit about e30s on this board and elsewhere, but the truth is; once you get to the race people are nice and respectful, and the judges for the most part are fair. So don't worry about it too much. The “anti-e30” bandwagon is probably more played out then the car itself! Just have fun, that's what this is about.
The notion that they type of car you drive determines the crappyness of your driving is simply ridiculous. There are plenty of bad drivers out there in every type of car. Also, on the subject of reliability; these are $500 cars we’re talking about, they are ALL unreliable. Reliability is more a function of the people on your team. Your ability to spot problems BEFORE they happen will have the greatest effect on your car’s reliability.
You're on the right track in trying to make it reliable. You can make it fast later, and it will take a lot of work to make it fast. There are some very smart people lurking behind all those rusty parts. If a car is fast, you can bet that team is smarter than they appear!
Weak points:
Engine mounts. Replace with something solid like metal. When they come loose the radiator fan moves over and chews a hole in your radiator hose.
Brakes, rebuild the calipers, get new rotors, remove rain shields, duct air to the fronts if possible. Rotors warp after one race if steps aren't taken to provide cooling.
Engine electrics, take your time to figure out what each and every component does. Everyone talks like it's rocket science, it's not, you CAN figure it out. There's basically two components that control fueling, the air flow sensor, and the crank sensor, O2 sensor is not needed. Everything else like temperature sensors, simply trim the fuel up or down. If it's running, but running badly, check your temp sensors. The computer can fail partially yielding very strange behavior, so have a spare.
Ball joints, ours started out brand new and lasted 5 races. I suggest you start with new ones.
Brake hard lines, locate and inspect every inch for rust! Replace all hoses with new, there are 6 of them.
Throttle closed micro switch. Tells the computer when to turn on idle control. Located under the throttle body. I promise you it’s filled with oil as you read this. It can be disassembled and cleaned. Tape the housing back together with metal tape.
Air Idle Control Valve. Clean it out with brake cleaner.
Air flow sensor. Inspect potentiometer under black cover. If track is worn through to substrate, slot screw holes in board, and scoot board to allow contact with fresh track.
Replace all your belts, especially the timing belt.
Throttle cable. Lubricate, rebuild, inspect, something. It’s probably rusty inside where you can’t see.
Ride height. When you strip these cars out you will lose about 600 lbs, the ride height will increase about 1.5 inches. To get it back down, cut the front springs, and torch the rears. On the rears, heat the skinny ends so they collapse inside of themselves. I wouldn’t go lower than 25 inches (measured from fender lip to ground). Lower than that, and you will start bottoming out your dampers. Make sure your bump stops are in good shape.
As others have said; check ALL ALL ALL fuel components! That means removing the tank!
If you are racing at summit point this year and need help with anything come find us. Our car is brown with a giant Gorilla on the roof.
Kris
As others have said; check ALL ALL ALL fuel components! That means removing the tank!
+1
E30s are all 21-28 years old now, and a very common problem (especially in rust-friendly regions) is leaking from the transverse tube that runs across the top of the tank. These frequently rust through, and the only way to get at it is to drop the tank and inspect it.
Another common source of fuel leaks is the fuel pressure regulator under the hood.
THANK YOU Kris! I'll be at Summit Point but not with this car. We're hoping to have this car ready for ChumpCar at VIR then Lemons at CMP in Sept. We actually raced this car once last year at Charlotte Motor Speedway and it was a complete disaster. We didn't have our kill switch wired up correctly going through tech and when we tried to fix it we fried the ECU, though it took us a while to figure that out (it was holding the injectors open continuously). Had to get on Craigslist and somehow tracked down an ECU. After some very much appreciated help from a member of another e30 team that was there but not racing that day we got about two hours of racing in the first day, and most of Sunday (transmission linkage kept breaking). Once we got out on the track we were very quick to realize that the "eta" engine blows! We just rode around trying to stay out of as many people's way as possible. Lemons staff felt so bad for us they gave us the Judge's Award to lift our spirits haha. We sold the engine and transmission to some poor bastard for $500 over the winter to put in his 2002, and a trip to the junkyard a few weeks ago yielded a Ford 302 and transmission for $400. Mechanical fuel pump & carburetor, only thing to wire is the ignition box and accessories. We'll see how it goes...which will probably be the front end plowing though the turns.
We sold the engine and transmission to some poor bastard for $500 over the winter to put in his 2002, and a trip to the junkyard a few weeks ago yielded a Ford 302 and transmission for $400. Mechanical fuel pump & carburetor, only thing to wire is the ignition box and accessories. We'll see how it goes...which will probably be the front end plowing though the turns.
NOW you're on the right track! The Judges LOVE an e30 with an unwise engine swap. Granted, the 302 is a pretty common powerplant, but the fact that it was never, ever intended to be shoved between the strut towers of the Bavarian Beetle means you'll pretty much sail through b-s inspection.
Some tips on racing a 'murican pushrod V8:
The biggest topic of debate regarding these engine seems to be what to use as a "redline" during the race. My own personal take on this is never, ever to rev the engine past the STOCK peak torque RPM. Unless you've done something internal (and expensive, and non-lemony) to the engine to beef it up, I don't care how many high rise manifolds, carburetors, lumpy cams, and trick exhausts you have, the rest of the engine is just as Henry F designed it, which was, in all likelihood, to power some dumpy Mustang or F100 with highway gears. Most of these old lumps like the sub-4500 RPM range, in this regard.
If you can't make the power you need at these RPMs, you need more cubic inches.
Don't skimp on oiling or cooling. Do everything you can to keep everything that has any kind of oil in it cool and clean. And keep the coolant cool. Flush out the block about 12 times before installing that nice new aluminum radiator, and replace those core plugs if you're at all suspicious of them.
Factory timing chains all suck. Buy a double roller unit. Peace of mind.
2 barrel carbs work great at low RPMs. The stock Ford Motorcraft carb is a great little piece, easy to find parts for, and easy to tune. And they're definitely lemonsesque.
That's what we pretty much had in mind, 4500 shifts with maybe a 5000 RPM "you-must-shift-now-idiot" light. From what I've gathered, on older valve springs you can start floating valves in as little as 5-5500 RPM. No room in the budget for an aluminum radiator, once we get a few other bits and pieces to do the swap we'll be right at $500. Gonna have to go with a factory unit out of a Lincoln Mk. VII we picked up at the junkyard.
We got a brand new Aluminum rad, biggest one summit racing sells, for $153 shipped to our door. It cools our 460 big Ford just fine. They had smaller rads for ~120. Junkyard rads are going for about 1/2 that, around here, but then you've got a potential unknown quantity. A rad shop will clean and pressure test a rad for about $50...so you might as well just buy the new one, IMHO.
That's what we pretty much had in mind, 4500 shifts with maybe a 5000 RPM "you-must-shift-now-idiot" light. From what I've gathered, on older valve springs you can start floating valves in as little as 5-5500 RPM. No room in the budget for an aluminum radiator, once we get a few other bits and pieces to do the swap we'll be right at $500. Gonna have to go with a factory unit out of a Lincoln Mk. VII we picked up at the junkyard.
I'd recommend the "You-Must-Shift-Now-Idiot" light be right below where you want it shifted. There will be a slight delay from the time the light comes on to the driver's reaction and subsequent shift, which might be 100-200 RPM in that interim, if your reflexes are as sloth-like as mine. Idiots like me test the limits of "Idiot Proof" stuff and it may take only one over-rev to create a very heavy doorstop.
You're better safe than engine-less.
You might also consider a rev limiter. They aren't real expensive, but a real cheapie can be made if you already have a shift light.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/ … imiter.jpg
Only problem is it's not adjustable. When the shift light comes on it kills the motor. It's also possible for you to have a nice backfire when the RPM drops low enough for the ignition to come back on line. 
True, good point. Maybe two lights? A you should shift now & a you must shift now light.
a trip to the junkyard a few weeks ago yielded a Ford 302 and transmission for $400. Mechanical fuel pump & carburetor, only thing to wire is the ignition box and accessories. We'll see how it goes...which will probably be the front end plowing though the turns.
Oh.. Well, now this changes almost EVERYTHING I would have bad to say about bringing another E30 to Lemons.
Carry on!
transfer cases, front diffs, viscous couplings
transfer cases, front diffs, viscous couplings
Is someone gonna race an iX??
True, good point. Maybe two lights? A you should shift now & a you must shift now light.
If you have drivers who do not shift when the shift light comes on, they should not be driving with you.
ross2004 wrote:True, good point. Maybe two lights? A you should shift now & a you must shift now light.
If you have drivers who do not shift when the shift light comes on, they should not be driving with you.
It's not that so much as having a shift point set a little lower than "redline" for the sake of taking care of the engine, but if a situation requires going a little past that another light at true redline. All of our drivers are intent on keeping the car whole and turning laps.
But in the end that's more effort and $$ than necessary- one light will do.
It's not that so much as having a shift point set a little lower than "redline" for the sake of taking care of the engine, but if a situation requires going a little past that another light at true redline. All of our drivers are intent on keeping the car whole and turning laps.
It might just be a team philosophy thing, but if there is a light on the dash that says shift, my drivers better shift. There is no situation not counting life or limb or the last laps of the race racing for a money spot, where you should get into the engine reserves. But then again, my team is doing 5 races this year so we are always saving the car for the next driver or the next race.
My experience was that the shift light was set lower than the safe max RPM.
There were some straightaways where other drivers stayed in the gas without shifting because the shift light came on close to the braking zone. I shifted when the light illuminated and downshifted when I hit the braking zone.
I want to say we were a good 1,000 rpm shy of the safe red-line when our shift light would kick in. It was pointed out to me that previous drivers had been shifting BEFORE the shift light came on, and they had been scolded/mocked/forced to wear panties outside their jeans about it.
Your mileage may vary.
Better than a shift light: Install an automatic that only goes into "D", and make sure the final drive ratio gives a theoretical top end of at least 140mph.
eljefe17 wrote:transfer cases, front diffs, viscous couplings
Is someone gonna race an iX??
i have one that is about Lemons grade bad, but rather do something besides that if i were gonna build another car. at least an ix would be something different than a normal e30
An iX was at NHMS.
An iX was at NHMS.
Assuming you mean the black one parked in the paddock all weekend, that was me. It's my DD, and good winter rally/ice racer. Probably slower than a regular RWD E30 on the track, though.
"The notion that they type of car you drive determines the crappyness of your driving is simply ridiculous. "
True Dat!
E30's don't hit people, people hit people.
There was a 325iX racing at Loudon Annoying. It was pretty cheaty... and yet still slow.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Common e30 problems?
