[ Closed ] Banned for life? (Page 4 of 7)

It appears there was a little more to it than that, since you already pointed out that:

This sure sounds like a situation covered by Rules 4.1.1 and 4.1.2, which state, in part:

As 4.1.2 points out, it's the "same deal" for cars as it is for parts.

Would you just as eagerly have sold the car to a total stranger for $500, knowing in advance that you'd never see it again?  That's the spirit of the rules.

They got laps, so it's not like it's not like Phil or Jonny or Matt bought their story. They brought a car, knew they'd get laps, got laps, and raced. I figured an M3 would show up eventually and get penalized to all hell, just like the GTO and the RX-8. And it happened that way. Big deal.

Driving quality seems to be an entirely different issue, but they'll learn the ropes. Endurance racing and Lemons specifically are totally different beasts than most people are used to.

But for how many races will the BS laps continue? At some point, have they paid the price for their cheatery and the car will go scot free?

I waded into this thread to apologize for my aggressive driving, but it seems like folks are more concerned with the car.  So, last comments from me on that front: I tried to sell the car locally for $3K (no takers), then $2K (ditto), then $1K (same).  I parked it at a common intersection in my neighborhood with a 'FOR SALE' sign on it, and the only potential taker I got was a local kid who offered me $600 for it, but never showed up with the money.  It was wasting away in my garage, so I sold it to the first person who gave me a check.

Honestly, if you have further questions about the car/prep, please take them up with the team owner.  In all of my dealings with him, he's been an honest and decent guy, who loves racing as much as any of us.  Yes, it's racing, but I doubt he'd go out of his way to be blatantly cheaty - he knew the car was going to be a tough sell in BS, and came prepared for that.  I've seen a GTO, several classic muscle cars in decent shape, several 7-series, and an S-Class come through tech this year, and all were allowed to race - I'm guessing they got penalty laps too.  Honestly, if the Lemons judges deemed it fit to race and assessed what they thought were fair penalty laps, continued discussion here is somewhat moot.

If you want to discuss my driving, I am happy to speak for myself, including apologies as needed.  I hope I've made it clear that I feel (very) badly about any offense I caused this weekend, and am going out of my way to correct the problem as quickly and effectively as I can.  As I said in my OP, I'm not here to win, I'm here to have fun, improve my skills, and continue meeting excellent people through racing.

Exactly why this is a moot subject (the M3 part I mean, the doughnuts are another matter).

Hey Festus-

Since we have some somewhat similar backgrounds (motorcycle racing) let me put it like this: Imagine that it would hurt as much as if you punted someone on the racetrack while on your bike. Bad for everyone.

I came through Lemons in the early days where we got away with lots of stuff that would get you excommunicated nowadays- but after I got over the novelty of 'wow, I can slide A LOT and not die!' I learned how to manage the car in a similar way to bike riding in that you still have your $1.00 of grip and can spend it in more or less productive ways...

But aside from that, especially when you have a car that has lots of power, it can go two ways:
One, which I think your team fell into to some degree- "I can pass everyone and then jam into the line whenever I want! This is great! Step to the side, suckas!"  Which gets you a crunched car when someone finally won't yield to your superior-ness or worse. And equals a multi-page screed of jerkholes like me telling you what a DICK you were, even if it wasn't you.

Alternately Two: "I'll set this up a little in advance and this guy(s) will never know I was there until s(he) can't possibly hit me even if they WANTED to!" Which is the Cerveza/Eyesore method. This often means you have to leave a second or two on the table that lap, but that's how you win an endurance race, especially Lemons.

Cheers
-Anton

I really hope part of the deal is that he has to continue to be referred to as "Mr. Donuts." I like the sound of that name a lot. I think I'll get my first ever cat just to name him Mr. Donuts.

Festus has the right attitude, and we should be encouraging him in his endeavor to be a better driver, especially of a BMW.  What are we complaining about, that BMW drivers are asshats with no regard for others?  And he's apologizing and expressing a desire to become a better driver and play nice?  Throw him out!

Also, since when are we the "$500 CAR MY ASS!!!!!1!!eleven!" types?  I thought we mocked those so-called Internet Car Experts.  Besides, his story is even plausible, what's a <$4k (according to KBB) car that needs $3600 of cats (to be street legal) worth?  Jay and Phil know cars, I trust them to BS fairly.

*like*

Fuck it, I think this thread has shown that I'm adult enough to take the heat for my behavior, or that of anyone else on my team.  If people were offended by it, I do truly apologize.  Honestly, the only reason I haven't offered my actual name here has more to do with the permanence of the interwebs rather than any desire to dodge culpability - anyone who's seen me in the Lemons pits knows that I'm...easy to pick out.

I do think it's important to clarify that I am not an experienced racer, on two wheels or four.  Before I sat in my primary car (B-class) in March, I'd never driven/ridden a hot lap other than a motorcycle track day at Mid-Ohio 10+ years ago.  So, everything I know about picking a line, working through traffic, etc. has been gleaned from the "new driver" meetings, my experience on the street, and my observations this year watching cars with vastly different capabilities move around each other (to be frank, there were several fast cars I diced with this weekend that seemed to be behaving the same way, so I thought it was okay).  I've gotten lots of compliments from my team members about my smoothness and speed (including Anton and many other very experienced Lemons drivers who I respect a great deal).  Not a single person complained about my driving until this weekend, so I didn't realize I had a problem to correct.  Now I know, and I'm going to work on that just like every other skill in my toolset.

At the end of the day, I like to think I can take criticism.  I also believe that much of my offending behavior may simply be due to ignorance, which I'm working on.  If you have other suggestions, I'm happy to hear them - Lemons is a place where being a welcome part of the community is more important (to me, at least) than winning.  If I can be a polite driver and still beat your ass, stellar. 

Anton, I guess your comment to me after the race was closer than you thought, eh?

I doubt it was the post race hooning alone that got Jay's goat.

Other teams have hoon'd during the post race parade this past year.

http://youtu.be/XfUn7Q-jvvk

I don't think Speedy's burnout was dangerous given the lame rear diff in the 'Spirit of Lemons'.  I didn't see this stunt.

Festus-
Yeah, I really attributed it more to ignorance than malice, but it gets you some of the same coin around here...

I do think you have better-than-average car control, and with that comes the ability to start using more of your attention on strategy/racecraft.

I'm still not where I want to be in terms of Cerveza-level zen (I found myself stuck behind cars for longer than necessary because I wasn't looking at the 300ft view) but it's nice to be able to have the luxury of taking car control for granted (mostly).

Lemons is like few other racing disciplines in the huge disparities in driver skill.

I'm still beating myself up over Sophie's crash- it was avoidable but she has never had enough real-world training to know what to do or practiced enough to make it instinct. It was a hell of a thing to be 150 ft back and watch it happen, knowing the moment to save it had passed...

-Anton

well isn't that funny. someone does donuts where the closest people are sitting strapped inside a caged car and everyone is up in arms. Speedy does a burn out while pointed at people and it's the greatest thing ever.....

lame diff or not, he was hooning while pointed at people....