The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → Banned for life?
I was in the paddock when that E30 came in. Jay was there taking pictures and asked the driver to pose while ripping off his driver wrist band. Almost as funny as Mr. Donut.
almitydave wrote:Also, since when are we the "$500 CAR MY ASS!!!!!1!!eleven!" types? I thought we mocked those so-called Internet Car Experts. Besides, his story is even plausible, what's a <$4k (according to KBB) car that needs $3600 of cats (to be street legal) worth? Jay and Phil know cars, I trust them to BS fairly.
For what it's worth, I was only responding to the proclamation that there are in fact $500 M3's to be had. As long as it involves selling it to your team mates. There are also free Ferrari's, I know somebody who's daddy gave them one to drive in college.
I'm speaking as somebody who's been given two free cars (Alfa Berlina, Porsche 914) since I arrived in California. Neither of those were given by future team mates (Judge Phil, are you listening??).
I'm glad Mr Donut (love that name!) and Jay came to a resolution. I hope part of it was theming the car as such:
http://www.mister-donut.com/welcome.htm
And festus, hope to see you back as well.
bs
This quote from the Mr. Donut website seems relevant;
"the Ramcar Group of Companies, one of the largest multinationals in the Philippines and the biggest battery manufacturer in Southeast Asia, acquired the master franchise through its subsidiary, Food Fest, Inc. Ramcar introduced an aggressive management policy and revitalized Mister Donut."
This quote from the Mr. Donut website seems relevant;
"the Ramcar Group of Companies, one of the largest multinationals in the Philippines and the biggest battery manufacturer in Southeast Asia, acquired the master franchise through its subsidiary, Food Fest, Inc. Ramcar introduced an aggressive management policy and revitalized Mister Donut."
Well, now we've got 'Mr Donut' and 'Food Festus', driving a Ramcar. If they don't show up with this theme next year, I'll be disappointed.
bs
well isn't that funny. someone does donuts where the closest people are sitting strapped inside a caged car and everyone is up in arms. Speedy does a burn out while pointed at people and it's the greatest thing ever.....
lame diff or not, he was hooning while pointed at people....
I was waiting for this to be brought up.
I remember spectators of the "post race parade" at New Hampshire trying to get drivers to do burnouts. That reminds me, I need to post that video.
Wendell34 wrote:This quote from the Mr. Donut website seems relevant;
"the Ramcar Group of Companies, one of the largest multinationals in the Philippines and the biggest battery manufacturer in Southeast Asia, acquired the master franchise through its subsidiary, Food Fest, Inc. Ramcar introduced an aggressive management policy and revitalized Mister Donut."Well, now we've got 'Mr Donut' and 'Food Festus', driving a Ramcar. If they don't show up with this theme next year, I'll be disappointed.
bshorey just called me fat!
Well, at least your costume is pretty cheap and readily available:
Wendell34 wrote:This quote from the Mr. Donut website seems relevant;
"the Ramcar Group of Companies, one of the largest multinationals in the Philippines and the biggest battery manufacturer in Southeast Asia, acquired the master franchise through its subsidiary, Food Fest, Inc. Ramcar introduced an aggressive management policy and revitalized Mister Donut."Well, now we've got 'Mr Donut' and 'Food Festus', driving a Ramcar. If they don't show up with this theme next year, I'll be disappointed.
bs
Festus, make this into a kickass theme; all your sins shall be absolved, and the trail of awesome will follow your team ever since.
Extra bonus points if you con Ramcar into sponsoring you.
Oh, and swap the S50 for a Stovebolt 250 with 6-2-1 headers. With a blow-through Eaton M90 and a shaker scoop. Come on. You know you want to.
Well, at least your costume is pretty cheap and readily available:
No, I look more like this:
the west needs a donuts team and if they could pit next the the caffeine team...
Nothing to add; quoted for posterity.
Hay everyone, longtime lurker, first tiem poster. Love the show. Anyway...
TL;DR: Hi, I'm Festus, and (apparently) I drive like an asshole. I'm really sorry. Seriously.
I had a fantastic time at Sears this weekend. It was my best finish by far (9th) since my first race (ever) at Sears earlier this year, I set multiple personal best laps, and had an absolute blast driving my old street car around one of the best tracks in the country for hours on end. Frankly, I was a bit crushed and mortified to find this thread full of people who I might have pissed off this weekend.
Note: I am not the donut guy; that's another member of my team. If he wants to pipe up, that's up to him. My only stints this weekend were in the yellow M3 (#13) from 12:30-2:30 on Saturday, and 12:30-3 on Sunday. If you were on-track during those times and felt like I drove like a dick, I sincerely, truly apologize.
First, answers to a few questions I've seen posed above:
An E36 M3 for $500? Blow me, dude.
Yes, it's an M3. Yes, it was purchased for $500. Trust me, I sold it.I bought the car in sorry mechanical shape in 2007 with ~200K miles; it'd had a rough life at the hands of a previous owner. I put in a new diff (you should see the shredded bolts that came rattling out of the old one), clutch, suspension & brakes at all four corners, motor mounts, fluids, belts & hoses, etc. But, while I owned it, it lived on the street in SF, then spent some time in a covered (but leaky, outdoor) garage - the body was rough. After failing smog three times in two years, CA blessed it with gross polluter status, and I'd need new cats before it could be registered. The E36 M3 has two cats that run $1800 (each) from BMW, and need to be welded in. Tack $4-5K onto the on-the-road price of a 20-year old BMW with 220K+ miles in rough cosmetic shape, and you get a pretty valueless car. After putting so much love into her, it broke my heart to see the car just sitting in my garage, useless. When a friend offered $500 to turn it into a race car that I could drive, I jumped at the chance. This was my first weekend racing my old car. Tell me you wouldn't.
Why didn't an M3/those dicks get any penalties?
The car was assessed penalty laps during BS. It's an M3, are you kidding? I wasn't there when it went through, but it got more than a handful. As far as other penalties go, I was flagged once during my time in the car (Sunday early afternoon), but was released by A-judge-who-I-shall-not-slander since it "was our first of the day, and we'd had a clean race so far." Other than the original subject of this thread, I believe one other team member was BF'ed, but I was with two teams this weekend, and wasn't always in the Rubber Chicken pits. As far as cheatiness goes, the only non-OEM parts I put on the car when I owned it were Konis, since they were way cheaper - and better - than replacement Beemer parts. I know the new owner put some coin into the seat, cage, wheels/tires/brakes, but there's no blower V12 under the hood or anything. We had a theme, but some of the drivers felt it was too much (yes, even for Lemons), so we abandoned it - come find me in the pits sometime.So, my driving.
I know this car extremely well, and am intimately aware of its capabilities and limits. In my previous Lemons races (Sears, Butt-Turrible, & T-Hill), I wasn't able to drive anything nearly this fast, and I was reveling in my chance to truly enjoy the limits of a car I'd driven on the street for years. Seriously, a full drift all the way through the Carousel, passing slower cars on the outside? Dicing with an equally-matched competitor, lap after lap, trading spots as you chase each other around the track? GO.
Since I know the car, the fact that I made significant contact twice this weekend is inexcuseable. In the first, I was coming up the inside line into T1 when the black coupe to my right came in quickly onto the line quickly - that cost me a mirror - and one on the front straight when I got squeezed out between the drag strip wall and another car to my left. I was not rear-ended in T11 (that might have been a teammate), and don't believe I made any other noticeable contact during my time in the car. In both of the above instances, I thought I had a clear lane, and watched it disappear while I was in it. My driving was too aggressive in general, and I probably shouldn't have taken the chance either time. If you were in one of those cars, I owe you an apology now, and a six-pack at our next race.
This is my first year, so more than anything else, I'm concerned with making a good impression and doing well by the people that brought me into this series. Most of them have years (or decades) of experience racing & winning in everything from Lemons to the IOM-TT and they're all outstanding people who I respect a tremendous amount. My goals on their team(s) have been:
1. Don't get hurt - done
2. Don't destroy your car - done
3. Don't embarrass yourself or your team(s) - yeah, so.The third point initially signified a desire to be fast enough to hang with my more experienced teammates, and I achieved that - I get around a track okay. However, this weekend has shown me that's only half of it - I've clearly come up short in the "don't be a dick" area. Though a halfway competent driver, I am still an inexperienced racer, and need to be a bit more polite if I want to remain welcome in this sandbox.
I don't know about the rest of you goons, but I'm here because I FUCKING LOVE THIS. If it has a motor, I'm in. I live and breathe motorcycles (MSF RiderCoach, USA Cycling Motoref, tour guide, photomotor), have drifted, jumped, or otherwise hooned every car I've ever owned (and many I haven't), and have been a car guy since my diaper-clad ass put grooves in my parents' floors drifting my plastic banana-car. When I found out that I could honest-to-god race cars in my backyard for relatively short money, I never looked back. Because racecar.
Though I'm irreverent as hell, I do take this seriously. The woman who rode the del Sol into the T1 wall is a teammate, and my heart dropped when I heard she was in it (she's okay). When my other team's car was involved in a pretty bad accident this weekend, the first thing I did after confirming our driver was okay was to go to the other team's pit and immediately apologize for ending their race (through their apparent skill and impressively crude efforts, we didn't). Two bad accidents is too many. I love driving hard, but I don't want to be responsible for hurting anyone, including myself.
So, if I ever piss you off out there, come find me and let me know. I'm wearing a purple Crown Royal suit with flames on it; if you can't spot me in the pits, you probably shouldn't be in a race car.
I'm still going to do my damned best to pass your ass in whatever car I'm driving, but I'll do so cleanly and respectfully.
As someone said above:
Look to Cerveza or Eyesore (or MTGT for that matter) for how to drive a fast car through traffic. If done right, you don't even know they're there until it's done.
Challenge accepted, slowpokes. See you out there.
Thank you, that is going to haunt my dreams forever
the west needs a donuts team and if they could pit next the the caffeine team...
If the Homer is coming up in the spring. . . mmmh, donuts. . . .
This thread wound up a lot better than I expected. Screw you, internets, there's at least one mature forum on the planet.
Then again, we all knew that we're outliers, right?
Festus, good job manning up. The fact that you were able to handle an entire weekend of the Talk To Troy Penalty speaks worlds of good of you 
It's even yellow!
Do this! DO ITTTTTTT.
no love for my donuts? pttth.
racerxr wrote:I doubt it was the post race hooning alone that got Jay's goat.
Other teams have hoon'd during the post race parade this past year.
I don't think Speedy's burnout was dangerous given the lame rear diff in the 'Spirit of Lemons'. I didn't see this stunt.
well isn't that funny. someone does donuts where the closest people are sitting strapped inside a caged car and everyone is up in arms. Speedy does a burn out while pointed at people and it's the greatest thing ever.....
lame diff or not, he was hooning while pointed at people....
First off, I wasn't "pointed at people". I was traveling at under 3 MPH in a straight line, in a line of moving cars. Watch the video.
Second, my sub-100 HP, open rear diff plane/car spinning one 14" all-season tire wasn't going to suddenly do anything that would endanger anyone. As Randy Pobst, Mike Taylor, and anyone else who raced it can attest, it has NO grip on the right rear. We had to coast through ALL right turns on the track, even without any power, or it would just spin uselessly.
Third, I WAS celebrating a major accomplishment. We had just made history, literally. I'm an entertainer at heart, and most Lemons types seem to appreciate what I do. See the laughter and smiles in the video? I'm not reckless, and that act wasn't reckless. Don't pretend it was.
I understand the desire to hoon and do donuts after a race, but saying it was totally safe because everyone around was strapped in and helmeted is a fallacy. MANY drivers undo belts and remove helmets while stopped in the line of 180 cars trying to exit the track. A race car is chock full of unpadded and dangerous metal when you aren't buckled and helmeted. I watched these donuts Sunday, and while the M3 didn't come near striking anyone else, it sets a dangerous precedent if left unchecked. What happens when five others follow suit? Then ten?
It only took two doing donuts in the paddock at Summit to cause a crash.
The plane would do a 'burnout' in the gravel at a standstill when put IN GEAR AT IDLE.
That was about the least dangerous burnout in the history of burnouts.
"MANY drivers undo belts and remove helmets while stopped in the line of 180 cars trying to exit the track."
Huh? I can not ever think of seeing this. You think Jay went ballistic on donut-gate (yea, I went there), he would rip out his hair if people were taking off their safety equipment while on track (two bad jokes in one post, a new record).
"MANY drivers undo belts and remove helmets while stopped in the line of 180 cars trying to exit the track."
Huh? I can not ever think of seeing this. You think Jay went ballistic on donut-gate (yea, I went there), he would rip out his hair if people were taking off their safety equipment while on track (two bad jokes in one post, a new record).
I do it all the time. Sheesh, we're inching forward, it's not like we're still on the cool down lap.
And yes, I was sitting there watching Mr Donut in action, without my helmet on, and I didn't feel as though I was in any danger.
bs
It only took two doing donuts in the paddock at Summit to cause a crash.
... Even though it was the most entertaining set of donuts I've ever seen.
And next thing you know, we can't even do donuts on a Razor scooter in the bathroom. Rights never come back, they can only take them away.
I guess the key here is to do a whole lot of thinking before attempting hooliganism, however fun it might be, for you might ruin it for the rest of us if you mess up and/or annoy the authorities.
it sets a dangerous precedent if left unchecked. What happens when five others follow suit? Then ten?
But that's exactly the point I was making.... You were coming off track, aimed at a crowd of people all standing right there. Just because you claim that it was safe to do in the plane doesn't mean that is safe to do for the next car behind you. And what if the next three cars had all said "well, if he's doing it, it must be ok"? Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the plane. I saw people smiling and laughing at the M3 donuts just the same as the burnout in the plane.
I"m just saying, if you're going to draw a line that says no hooning, then enforce the line.
Speedycop wrote:it sets a dangerous precedent if left unchecked. What happens when five others follow suit? Then ten?
But that's exactly the point I was making.... You were coming off track, aimed at a crowd of people all standing right there. Just because you claim that it was safe to do in the plane doesn't mean that is safe to do for the next car behind you. And what if the next three cars had all said "well, if he's doing it, it must be ok"? Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the plane. I saw people smiling and laughing at the M3 donuts just the same as the burnout in the plane.
I"m just saying, if you're going to draw a line that says no hooning, then enforce the line.
Agreed. I don't see what the plane car did as any different than the M3. Both showed a total lack of judgement. It appears to me (correct me if I am wrong) that due to the celebrity of the plane car and it's team principle this reckless act was overlooked. And yes I think it was reckless. What if the tire on the plane car had blown out and sent chunks of steel belted tire into the crowd who were only feet away? And god forbid someone lost an eye or worse? I can think of a thousand terrible things that could have happened by doing a burnout in that setting.
I can definitely see the point about preferential treatment, but keep in mind that this entire series is based around the organizers' judgement calls. If Lemons tried to set concrete rules and stick to them 100%, it would be much closer to Chump in terms of fun level. No fixed set of rules is perfect for every situation. I'd rather see firm guidelines that the organizers allow to be pushed in appropriate situations.
Obviously the guidelines are more firm regarding safety issues than they are regarding BS/penalty issues, but still. Speedycop appears for all intents and purposes to be a safe racer and team operator. It's not like Jay is giving Speedycop preferential treatment because they're buddies; he may be giving him more leeway because, for good reason, he trusts Speedycop to know what he's doing more than he trusts some brand new team in an M3 that's been getting a bad reputation by hooning their asses off all weekend.
There's also the Sonoma factor, as mentioned by others in this thread. It wouldn't surprise me at all if getting Sonoma to allow Lemons on their track is a much touchier operation than it is for a place like CMP. Jay brought the hammer down hard in public, and then came to a gentleman's agreement after the offending party showed proper penance? That sounds like exactly what he should have done in that situation. He has been doing this for a while, right?
Back to the original topic of the thread, let me echo the major kudos to "Food Festus" for coming on here and owning up to your mistakes. Hopefully the rest of your team is as reasonable as you are. Of course, you guys absolutely have to roll with that Ramcar/Mister Donut/Food Fest theme now. It's just too perfect. Do it well, wear the costumes all weekend, hand out donuts, and drive responsibly? You could be the first M3 to win an Organizer's or Judges' Choice. Everybody loves a good comeback story, right?
Make it happen and all sins are forgiven...
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → Banned for life?