Re: Mercedes 280?

Hmmm....no one wants to touch this question.  Is that a bad omen?

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

squidbreath wrote:

Hmmm....no one wants to touch this question.  Is that a bad omen?

From a "public relations" standpoint, I would think that you could do either the awesome suspension design or a motor swap, but not both.  With the M110 and a crazy home-made suspension, I'd think of the car as a superb example of backyard engineering; with the crazy suspension and, say, a 4.6-liter Ford motor, I'd start to think of it as a bit of a cheater.

Just my opinion, of course.

Re: Mercedes 280?

Thank you for the perspective armand.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

nah, knowing judge phil, he and jonny will only love it, they approve all crazy fab ideas i tell them about, i say go for it if your confident in the young man. just dont go using anodized aluminum or forged titanum or something rediculous like that, simple clean fabrication doesnt have to be expensive.


IMO i dont like semi trailing, yes it works, yes it can win the race BUT i much prefer a simple 4 link, no toe troubles its nice an simple, it works very well, so does A arms but thats more work, still freakin cool.


i also love straight 6s, the noise it will make would be awesome!! its a hemi too man! like i said id use a eaton m90 supercharger, form the 3.8 buicks and GMs i got one off ebay for just $50, its going on the 928 sooner or later, with all the room on the m110s it  would be easy to install on the intake, simple method is make it a draw through with that solex ( quadrajet ) carb. ill do it for you if you want to buy the S/C for say $60... then id bet there would be at least 200 bhp.

on the other hand a 4.6 makes a hell of a good scream, ill take the m110 if your ditching it....

Re: Mercedes 280?

Oh yeah, do it!  If the Angry Hamster was welcomed with open arms - oodles of custom fabrication and all - then why would you be docked?  I bet the judges will like it.

Team Co-Craptain, Los Cerdos Voladores
Plymouth Neon
Yeah, we're horrible...but we're LEAST Horrible

Re: Mercedes 280?

vwmc16:  The oem 2.8 straight 6 in the car is toast.  It wouldn't crank over.  When we pulled it we discovered shrapnel exit wounds in the oil pan.  I haven't taken it apart yet but the block is probably shot.  If it is not raining i'm going to take a look at it tomorrow.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

aw thats sad, take some pictures if you can

Re: Mercedes 280?

Squid
You got one hell of a fabricator....that kid is good!!!!!!!!!! 

But so is my fabricator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :>)  After all he built your cage!!

I also like crazy custom stuff....granted the suspension on the 928 was pretty good to start so we didn't make any drastic changes....but fabricating a double A arm rear (say from a miata) is always COOL....

Clint is right about solid axles being RELIABLE and proven in Lemons.....the bottom line is you do NOT need a fully independent suspension car to do well at Lemons...you don't even need a fast car...all you need is a well driven RELIABLE car..... a well driven, penalty free reliable car is a top 10 car....no matter how "slow" it appears on paper

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Mercedes 280?

Earlier, I didn't mean to imply that the custom suspension was a bad idea-- just that, if the car wound up being super fast after getting an engine transplant, people might decide that the "cheater suspension" was to blame.

squidbreath wrote:

vwmc16:  The oem 2.8 straight 6 in the car is toast.

The 3-liter straight-six out of a W124 (easy to find in Bay Area junkyards) would be a cool swap.  The car would still be all Mercedes, if that counts to you, and it's a pretty good motor--  it has 177 horsepower, which is nothing to write home about, but it's smooth and reliable, and should be easy to fit in the engine bay.  With a less restrictive exhaust, the M103 sounds pretty awesome too, as I learned when I backed over a rock and broke the muffler on my mom's old 300TE.

Re: Mercedes 280?

the 104?  if you can get all the EFi and wiring, that would be awesome, or for better style, 3 sets of sidedrafts....

Re: Mercedes 280?

vwdmc16 wrote:

the 104?  if you can get all the EFi and wiring, that would be awesome, or for better style, 3 sets of sidedrafts....

3 sidedrafts on an M104?

You, sir, are insane.  And totally awesome.  Actually, "insane and totally awesome" is kind of a theme I'm picking up on this whole build.

For what it's worth, I've heard that the SOHC M103 is stronger and more reliable  than the DOHC M104. The M103 seems more plentiful in junkyards, too... but it's also down 40 horsepower from it's 4-valve-per-cylinder brother. 

Either engine would look spec-friggin'-tacular with sidedrafts.  Also, a racing W114 should have dual side exhausts coming out in front of the right rear wheel, just like the 300SLRs did.

Re: Mercedes 280?

"a racing W114 should have dual side exhausts coming out in front of the right rear wheel, just like the 300SLRs did."

I like this.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

squidbreath wrote:

"a racing W114 should have dual side exhausts coming out in front of the right rear wheel, just like the 300SLRs did."

I like this.

ahh theres nothing like the smell of burnt ankles in the morning

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Mercedes 280?

Any engine you want to drop in a W114 is (probably) fine with us.

Re: Mercedes 280?

I'm going to use a 302 I got out of a '91 Town and Country wagon.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

41 (edited by vwdmc16 2010-02-09 12:00 AM)

Re: Mercedes 280?

MurileeMartin wrote:

Any engine you want to drop in a W114 is (probably) fine with us.

this means not boring chevy SB


I too really dig the 300slr ideas, the '55 300SLR gullwing is hands down the preetiest MB ever IMO

http://image.motortrend.com/f/features/consumer/8484126/112_0607_mbt_32z%20mercedes_benz_museum_tour%201955_mercedes_benz_300SLR_Uhlenhaut_Coupe.jpg

the lemans car is #2

http://www.ritzsite.nl/300SL/1955_Mercedes_300_SLR_f3q.jpg

Re: Mercedes 280?

Armand4 wrote:
vwdmc16 wrote:

the 104?  if you can get all the EFi and wiring, that would be awesome, or for better style, 3 sets of sidedrafts....

3 sidedrafts on an M104?

You, sir, are insane.  And totally awesome.  Actually, "insane and totally awesome" is kind of a theme I'm picking up on this whole build.

well forget that heres one better, get some dohc 6 merc engine, whatever you get and drill some hols in the side to the comubstion chamber, instert some MB diesel derived injection pump and make your own gasoline direct injection ala gullwing engine style. oh and keep the ITBs,

just insane enough not to work, but we can always try! image the MPG too! totaly can use our Dyno to get this working!

http://photos.webridestv.com/datastore/images/user/1d138e2d6657250f90491b1014c8ef72/Mercedes_Benz_300_SLR_115414_20080806_l.jpg

Re: Mercedes 280?

vwdmc16  I'm thinking there is more than $500 just in the plumbing fittings for that last one.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

Make sure it's desmodromic. Adds reliability.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Mercedes 280?

jimeditorial wrote:

Make sure it's desmodromic. Adds reliability.

And there's a "Mad Max Beyond the Desmodrome" theme built right in!

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Mercedes 280?

We like unnecessarily complex fuel-delivery systems just as much as unwise engine swaps.

Re: Mercedes 280?

YES WE DO!!

Re: Mercedes 280?

This car has a very strange front suspension geometry.

In reference to the driver's side: At 5" droop the instant center(IC) is about 40 inches outside the car on the driver's side.  At normal ride height, the IC is about 23 feet outside the car on the driver's side.  At 5" of compression the IC is about 38" outside the car on the passenger side.

The roll center is below ground at both droop and compression but about 12" above ground at normal ride height.

The axis of the lower control arm attachments is 21 degrees different from the axis of the upper control arm attachments.  There is little castor at full droop and full compression and quite a bit at normal ride height.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

Advice wanted.

Stock Mercedes 20 gallon fuel tank or racing fuel cell?

If stock is recommended is there something I need to do to it like put a rollover valve on the breather?

I don't mind spending the money for safety but there was some thought that mercedes knew what they were doing when they designed the stock one.  I'm not entirely convinced I can place a racing cell better than they placed the stock tank.  The stock one is below the floor of the trunk and looks as if it is designed to fall out downward in a big rear ender.  I'd probably have to put a racing cell above the trunk floor.  I don't want to put it half above and half below for fear that it would be sliced in a big rear impact.

The racing cell does provide a bladder though, which is good.

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Re: Mercedes 280?

20 gal is nice, id say use it, a cell is safer but not a nesesisty, you have a '72 benz, it will take a hell of a hit to shift the rear end.

its too bad you didnt keep the m110, i found one intact at the Antelope picknpull

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/other/p_00065.jpg