The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → The new rules and how its killing Lemons...
Speaking of safety,we're fairly aware of driving a 2100-lb Miata between, say, two 4000-lb Plymouths...
Yes that is a TRIPLE door bar. That means we're 50% more paranoid than even the latest rules require us to be.
Speaking of safety,we're fairly aware of driving a 2100-lb Miata between, say, two 4000-lb Plymouths...
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq48 … oorbar.jpg
Yes that is a TRIPLE door bar. That means we're 50% more paranoid than even the latest rules require us to be.
except that those triple door bars also hold your two cars together 
I'll post pics of the door bars of the caltrans/grinch/frogger but my bar is right up against door and that is one on the straightest parts of my car besides the roof ,wait i caved that in @ reno for team pictures !!
i did need a venue to bitch... i like the forums because its much easier to get a concensus on what others are thinking. Im not the only one who got a little riled up over the rules revision, pre modifications. as far as a sock puppet... i dunno. I just like the fact that Lemons is so reponsive to the racers. Try bitching on a Spec forum or Bombers forum about rule changes and see how far you get. if i didnt think that something good would come of my bitching i wouldnt have wasted the time typing. I thank you all for your input.. well except for professional dreamer... hes always hatin.
[hatin]I've done some dangerous racing in my limited career, from Mexico to Morocco, and Lemons is by far the most dangerous flavor I've tasted. You have to worry much more about what other cars are going to do to you, than what you can do to yourself going too fast.
I also know from my years as a firefighter that side impacts are the absolute worst case scenario for us drivers. The human body is just not designed,(by Jesus), to absorb side impact, and the intrusion from t-bone accidents can simply disconnect large blood vessels from important organs. That means you bleed-out internally real fast, and no amount of liability insurance or medical intervention is going to stop that. The only thing you can do is prepare your cage for side impacts and then hope you get t-boned on the passenger side instead.
Lemons cars are moving at speeds that can absolutely kill drivers in all sorts of exciting ways, especially if they take a shot to the driver's door, (pardon the pun). The idea of complaining about a second door bar is insane, just do it. If you don't have enough money for your cage now, wait one race and put that entrance money into the door bar and a cup of coffee. There is no room for un-needed stupidity in Lemons, we're dumb enough already![/hatin]
[hatin]
Lemons cars are moving at speeds that can absolutely kill drivers in all sorts of exciting ways, especially if they take a shot to the driver's door, (pardon the pun). The idea of complaining about a second door bar is insane, just do it. If you don't have enough money for your cage now, wait one race and put that entrance money into the door bar and a cup of coffee. There is no room for un-needed stupidity in Lemons, we're dumb enough already!
i was surprised a second door bar wasn't mandatory earlier. when i got into the car last year i felt a little exposed with only the low bar that we had. that's one change i'm not sorry to see, not that the car will have one when we race again at stafford
Honestly the second door bar was the least of my problem, auto power sends it along with the kit for the cage. My problem was with the wording that basically stated that auto power cages were not acceptable (has been changed.). Continuous tubing means just that. the way the rule was worded made slip joints and bolts a thing of the past. It also made a removable cage an impossibility. which is a real problem if you have to get under the dash (or even remove the dash) in a tight car. Its a daunting task with a cage that is basically a stressed member of the frame at that point. I like the added safety standards but if you look at my first post, i was worried about the price inflation of a professionally built cage with continuous tubing.
Dont get it twisted safety is everyone's responsibility. And ill happily install the second door bar. the thought of not being able to participate any more because the huge money hurdle a pro-built cage commands saddened me. but its since been fixed, my cage is legal and auto power and I/O Port cages are still acceptable so there is no foul, add a door bar and keep the exhaust away from the gas tank and we are good to go. see you at stafford!
VoR
Only having 1 door bar seemed pretty sketchy to me. Adding a 2nd one is not that much work if you have a welder. And im sure there is someone by you that does fab work that will charge $30-$40 or so to add a door bar.
Why all the crying?? You guys need to HTFU:
Only having 1 door bar seemed pretty sketchy to me. Adding a 2nd one is not that much work if you have a welder. And im sure there is someone by you that does fab work that will charge $30-$40 or so to add a door bar.
Why all the crying?? You guys need to HTFU:
Not to be devil's advocate, but most of the crying was before Nick clarified the new rules. A lot of us were under the impression that a LOT of changes had to be made to our cages, but now that we know the details, the general consensus from most is that adding another door bar isn't a big deal.
Now where's that dead horse animated gif?
(Sorry, I assume I just skipped 4 pages of 'shut up or go home'.)
Aren't whiners disqualified from this race per rule 2.4?
Seriously? Welding another tube to a cage ruins 24HL? We can endure having a POS in the yard, suffering spousal wrath, sharing a sweaty stinky fire suit, can't drink while the track is hot, crapping on a mound in a outhouse all weekend, critical parts dropping off the car all over the track, and all the other adversity encountered bringing a team and car across the country to humiliate ourselves, but the new cage spec is just too much.
24HL is the most fun I've EVER had, but I suppose by comparison my life has been all terminal illness and refugee camps.
I think it's miraculous in this litigation nation we are allowed to do this at all and the organizers have done an incredible job of making such a risky event accessible.
reading comprehension, its not just for kindergartners.
I think it's miraculous in this litigation nation we are allowed to do this at all and the organizers have done an incredible job of making such a risky event accessible.
Well said, and I agree. However you know what that say...just when you think you've made something idiot proof (the rules for example) they make a better idiot.
LOL awesome
(Sorry, I assume I just skipped 4 pages of 'shut up or go home'.)
You know what happens when you assume, right?
IBTL... please to lock this ENDLESS thread Nick
IBTL... please to lock this ENDLESS thread Nick
+1
It's like the song that never ends...
Next, Mr. Voice of Reason will want to complain about kill switches. Geez, how long will THAT thread go on for? If VoR had just asked for a clarification, rather than slamming Jay/Nick and Lemons, I might have gone easy on him. But he didn't. He flamed first, thought second. Probably a Newbie...
John
nah im cool with the kill switches.
man what a bunch of grown ass babies! My buddy races a small tire drag radial car- he built a perfectly legal car which dominated so they outlawed his 5,000 turbo mid season. He came back and dominated some more with another legal turbo.
You have to have rules for safety and to keep racing competative. i think you guys are doing a good job. I know i took the race for a joke until i hit 100+ on the first straight away- then headed up a hill where I couldnt see the turns along side 10 other cars. What a rush, cant wait for the next one- haaha
never ever die... I'll make sure of it.
4500rpm 4th gear t5 trans 2.73 rear end.
117mph.
Why would you ever get in a racecar that you're afraid will hurt you? If you think it's dangerous... make it safer. If you aren't bright enough to see that it's dangerous... that's why we have minimum rules. Our cage is SCCA legal, because 1) it's safe 2) it stiffens the chassis enough to run the corners with most of the cars out there, despite being a mustang.
Well I am sure glad my team went ahead and welded all 3 door bars in that came with our mini-stocker kit. Looks like that is paying off in the long run. I can't argue with safety but for some to say that this is the most dangerous type of racing they have experienced must have never raced on a dirt track before. I don't think any driver on my team was touched by another car the whole weekend at CMP, it happens a few times a lap on dirt. Racing is by far the coolest thing in the world but you want to remain able to compete again. Give it a rest, it is for your own good.
Our first car was built under the original 'five point roll bar' rule. We bought a JEGSTER bar and added a drivers' door bar, we wuz SET. 
Then mid year we got the word that now a 6 point cage was required. 
So we ordered a JEGSTER front half and stuck it in. (BTW, the unofficial word was that 3000 pound car was clocked once at ~105 MPH at the end of the front straight at CMP. We had no telemetry, tach or speedo to confirm but somehow it doesn't surprise me.)
The new roll cage rules aren't the end of the world, folks. The SCCA GCR has a real good intro to the section about cages, in short: if you build it better than you think you'll need you are much better off. We nearly ran afoul of that with the original 5 point bar. That's why the next car is getting a 1.75 x .095 wall DOM cage (~1675 pound car). The tubing isn't anywhere near as much as an Autopower bolt in and any reasonably sized town or city has SOMEONE with a good quality draw or mandrel bender. Any neighborhood generally has at least one guy with a welder.
At least half of the point of Lemons is to test your ingenuity in the face of adversity, so man up and stick the second bar in already.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → The new rules and how its killing Lemons...
