• Registered: 2017-11-27
  • Posts: 8

Re: On board Fire Suppression

This is all a great discussion. I have a couple of points of disagreement. This is completely about driver safety but i can hardly agree that any of us would want to see our $500 crap can go up like a girl scout campfire. As noted the safety equipment alone is enough reason to do any thing possible to put the fire out. In my short time in Lemons racing (6 races) I've see at least two cars return to the race after minor fires. I for one will grab the first available monkey with a water pistol to fight a fire and if the fire handle is the first thing in sight its most likely going to be that especially if I see black smoke come from under the hood. I also believe most of this will take place away from the pit where ever swinging dick will be pissing on the fire. I believe that Lemons has a priority list and the top of that list is Safety followed closely by Fun then economy. Since there seems to be quite a few systems that aren't SFI/FIA compliant but are accepted by other sanction bodies that Lemons take a look at this again and determine if there is a compromise that would be appropriate for our unique circumstance. I hope this helps us clarify the rule so that others don't make the same dumb ass mistake as I did putting money into the wrong piece of equipment. We learn from our mistakes. Some just cost more than others.

  • Registered: 2009-05-27
  • Posts: 361

Re: On board Fire Suppression

I believe in all things safety.....
But i also believe in not wasting money on something not mandated yet.
If Lemons HQ hasn't laid out the rules on what is acceptable, I'm not buying the wrong thing, or installing it incorrectly.
What will pass tech inspection is most important.
Manny

  • VKZ24
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  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
  • Posts: 1,841

Re: On board Fire Suppression

We decided that it was worth $350 to NOT be on fire, so we bought the Firesense 4.0L AFFF system from here.  It has 6 nozzles (we only used 4) 2 remote pull handles, and is FIA complaint.  I can't imagine this won't pass the future Lemons tech requirements, but for the $87.50 I paid (my portion), I'm willing to take that chance.

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'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

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  • From: Tustin, CA
  • Registered: 2010-12-30
  • Posts: 3,275

Re: On board Fire Suppression

^ That's what I bought.  FWIW, I asked for and received a discount for buying 2 at the same time.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
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  • Registered: 2010-03-08
  • Posts: 420

Re: On board Fire Suppression

I broke a connecting rod on the front straight at Sears Point once during Spec Miata qualifying (weird, right?) and had a bit of an under-car fire going.  I drove it off into the gravel between T1 and T6, eyeing the fire system pull handle the whole time.  I figured that as long as it was just smoke in the cockpit and not flames I would save the Halon.  After bailing out I would have been very happy to have a hand-held extinguisher.  Oil fires seem to burn themselves out most of the time and that's what happened here, but it could have gone the other way.

So yeah, there's a tendency to avoid pulling the handle if you have to pay for it.

Also, there's no way I'd want a face full of foam at 100mph.  Probably better than being on fire, but still.  I wouldn't want to lube up the cockpit (hey-oh) either.  I'll take Halon, thank you.

31 Reply by VKZ24 (edited by VKZ24 2018-01-11 01:36 PM)

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Re: On board Fire Suppression

hoverducky wrote:

I broke a connecting rod on the front straight at Sears Point once during Spec Miata qualifying (weird, right?) and had a bit of an under-car fire going.  I drove it off into the gravel between T1 and T6, eyeing the fire system pull handle the whole time.  I figured that as long as it was just smoke in the cockpit and not flames I would save the Halon.  After bailing out I would have been very happy to have a hand-held extinguisher.  Oil fires seem to burn themselves out most of the time and that's what happened here, but it could have gone the other way.

So yeah, there's a tendency to avoid pulling the handle if you have to pay for it.

Also, there's no way I'd want a face full of foam at 100mph.  Probably better than being on fire, but still.  I wouldn't want to lube up the cockpit (hey-oh) either.  I'll take Halon, thank you.

If one of my teammates thinks they are in a situation that they need to pull that handle, they'd better pull it, car be damned.  As long as he gets out safely, I could give a shit less about the car.  I'm not going to stand in judgment whether he did the right thing or not.

Back in 2012 at a Chump race, I witnessed a car AND DRIVER that was ON FIRE at Daytona right in front of me in the hot pit.  He literally DOVE out of the window to escape. Fortunately three other teams were waiting to fuel their cars at the time, and were able to put him out.  He was in the car for all of 5 seconds and still received some 2nd degree burns.   Had he been out on the track it would have been much worse.  At that time an in-car FSS was not required.  Fire is no joke.

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'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

VKZ24's Website

  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: On board Fire Suppression

douglfr1 wrote:

This is all a great discussion. I have a couple of points of disagreement. This is completely about driver safety but i can hardly agree that any of us would want to see our $500 crap can go up like a girl scout campfire. As noted the safety equipment alone is enough reason to do any thing possible to put the fire out. In my short time in Lemons racing (6 races) I've see at least two cars return to the race after minor fires. I for one will grab the first available monkey with a water pistol to fight a fire and if the fire handle is the first thing in sight its most likely going to be that especially if I see black smoke come from under the hood. I also believe most of this will take place away from the pit where ever swinging dick will be pissing on the fire. I believe that Lemons has a priority list and the top of that list is Safety followed closely by Fun then economy. Since there seems to be quite a few systems that aren't SFI/FIA compliant but are accepted by other sanction bodies that Lemons take a look at this again and determine if there is a compromise that would be appropriate for our unique circumstance. I hope this helps us clarify the rule so that others don't make the same dumb ass mistake as I did putting money into the wrong piece of equipment. We learn from our mistakes. Some just cost more than others.

Other sanctioning bodies aren't private companies running Lemons insurance.

"a properly plumbed, fully charged, securely mounted SFI- or FIA-certified onboard fire suppression system with agent-appropriate nozzles."

That wording has been there for at least a full year if not longer.

You certainly can pull the suppression system to save your gear, but the tradeoff is your weekend is over. Not the worst outcome, but either way when your car is enough on fire, your weekend is done either due to burning, or due to a discharged fire suppression bottle. For all other fires, Handheld extinguishers should suffice. If not, well, your on fire enough to end the weekend at that point.

Because thing is, Cars, not supposed to be on fire, a little on fire or a lot on fire.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
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  • Registered: 2011-10-14
  • Posts: 4,167

Re: On board Fire Suppression

douglfr1 wrote:

This is completely about driver safety but i can hardly agree that any of us would want to see our $500 crap can go up like a girl scout campfire.

We are the exception.  I cheered when I found out Saturn caught fire gloriously (after I found out the driver was fine)/  We had been trying to sell it for a while loaned to extra drivers from our and a sister team.

FYI, oil fires caused by windowing the block right under the glowing exhaust manifold do not put themselves out.until they have consumed everything combustible around them.

  • From: Lyndeborough, NH
  • Registered: 2011-05-22
  • Posts: 843

Re: On board Fire Suppression

So, can any of these systems get a second bottle for a couple hunnert dollahbucks to leave in a box at home on the trailer  just in case your hung over overly cautious driver pulls the lever because the engine backfires through the caruburetor and makes flames and panic?

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  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: On board Fire Suppression

Sadly the bottle is the pricy part, the rest is mostly tubes and some meh sized machined parts.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Guildenstern's Website

  • From: Auburn, NorCal
  • Registered: 2013-04-13
  • Posts: 247

Re: On board Fire Suppression

SpaceFrank wrote:

We've had one accidental discharge, and it was while trying to put the pin back in (after a race, thankfully). The handle on our system has a hole in both the stationary part of the handle and the moving part, but if you try to line up the two holes it cracks the bottle open. You're apparently supposed to just put the pin in one of the two holes. Aside from that, we've only had to refill based on expiration.


Same thing happened to me the first time I ran w/the SPA bottle in the Avanti.
A slow leak out the nozzles all the way home.
Had it refilled at the track(Sears) I forget which company, they are in the shop area w/all the real race cars.
The guy at the refill store cautioned me about flushing out the lines and nozzles after a discharge. Apparently the juice left in the lines dries and may plug up the plumbing. FYI

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