Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

This thread just highlights the various differing priorities that some have. For example harnesses. Some are ok with a cheap harness that is a pain in the ass to adjust properly, while others value a nicer harness higher. (I'm starting to fall into the later, I loath the cheaper belts we have and I'll likely go back to Schroth with the BMW)

Cool shirts. Depending on your region you might see them as a nice toy, or a hugely important safety item. I see it as safety after we gave a driver heat exhaustion. That was a scary day.

Wheels. Some don't care at all, some want a specific size and quality.

The list goes on.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Think Lemons is expensive try the other $500 league...

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

We've done it a few different ways.

First:

T bird Turbo Coupe- 800
Sold about 300 in parts

Total for car 500
Tires  225/50/16 on stock wheels 500
Cage from RCC 650
Paid a few guys for welding help 400
Brake pads 250
Belts 160
Seat (used from NASA guy) 40
Disconnect 30
Oil change 30
Alignment 80
Spare wheels/tires 400
Misc little crap 200

So, around 3500

Second car-

Paid 493 for a car that just finished P18 at Summit Point

Added parts from burned T bird.

Went racing

Total 500

Averaged top 20 for the first 3  races.  then we decided to make it fast.  Did not average top 20 from then on.

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain 
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie
Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

We've done it a few different ways.

First:

T bird Turbo Coupe- 800
Sold about 300 in parts

Total for car 500
Tires  225/50/16 on stock wheels 500
Cage from RCC 650
Paid a few guys for welding help 400
Brake pads 250
Belts 160
Seat (used from NASA guy) 40
Disconnect 30
Oil change 30
Alignment 80
Spare wheels/tires 400
Misc little crap 200

So, around 3500

Second car-

Paid 493 for a car that just finished P18 at Summit Point

Added parts from burned T bird.

Went racing

Total 500

Averaged top 20 for the first 3  races.  then we decided to make it fast.  Did not average top 20 from then on.

cheap, reliable and fast...  pick 2 can't have all three.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

chaase wrote:

I didn't check FIA belts. That explains the cost.

We just paid ~$300 for FIA belts at the track (Sonoma).  This was the at the track price, I'd assume if you shop around they could be had for less.

The days of 'cage a $500 car and race it' are long gone.  And we haven't yet gotten to mandatory fire systems and fuel cells.

bs

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

bshorey wrote:
chaase wrote:

I didn't check FIA belts. That explains the cost.

We just paid ~$300 for FIA belts at the track (Sonoma).  This was the at the track price, I'd assume if you shop around they could be had for less.

The days of 'cage a $500 car and race it' are long gone.  And we haven't yet gotten to mandatory fire systems and fuel cells.

bs

I thought we had to have halo systems now?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Spank wrote:

Alternative title: Raw nerve ointment, please.
Alternative, alternative title: Show me how you built your $500 crapcan with your checkbook.


Please give me a spreadsheet of a $5000 build of a Lemons-legal $500 car that cannot be done more cheaply and with still a reasonably equivalent level of safety.

Personally, I’d prefer to see the opposite. You tell everyone they CAN do it cheaper, but what we could use is you SHOWING us how you do it that cheap.

From scratch, no re-used parts, no counting “friends with benefits”

You can see my spreadsheets in Eric’s thread, but I did this more for futzing with a car than cheap build. I just wanted an excuse to do the crap so I’m not a good examle of trying to do it smart and cheap. Also I will always pay more to work in the team garage than in the mud while everyone else gets to race. So I overspend too much to be a fair assesment.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Guildenstern wrote:
Spank wrote:

Alternative title: Raw nerve ointment, please.
Alternative, alternative title: Show me how you built your $500 crapcan with your checkbook.


Please give me a spreadsheet of a $5000 build of a Lemons-legal $500 car that cannot be done more cheaply and with still a reasonably equivalent level of safety.

Personally, I’d prefer to see the opposite. You tell everyone they CAN do it cheaper, but what we could use is you SHOWING us how you do it that cheap.

From scratch, no re-used parts, no counting “friends with benefits”

You can see my spreadsheets in Eric’s thread, but I did this more for futzing with a car than cheap build. I just wanted an excuse to do the crap so I’m not a good examle of trying to do it smart and cheap. Also I will always pay more to work in the team garage than in the mud while everyone else gets to race. So I overspend too much to be a fair assesment.

Yep... We've heard from everyone else. Now it's Spanks turn to show us all how we've wasted our money so frivolously smile

#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

I'll play.

Imp was $650, sold off $300
Cage was 1000
FIA seat was 75 off craigslist
Fire suppression was 300
6 tires 360
Harness from crow 100
Head gasket 35
Carb kit 12
Fuel cell 150
Misc 300
Total 2682

IOE winnings $600 plus free entry makes it roughly $2k out of pocket.  XJ12 was bought for $2k and needed about $200 in misc fuel pump to be race ready.  Rover was cheaper because already had safety to swap in and cage was cheaper.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

cheseroo wrote:

Fuel cell 150

Is it made of Papier-mâché, Old Stop Signs, or Gypsum Board?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Guildenstern wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

Fuel cell 150

Is it made of Papier-mâché, Old Stop Signs, or Gypsum Board?

I bet you can buy a used one from a circle track car that passes tech for that.

It probably won't be the max 24 gallons, but who needs that when you're running an Imp?

That guy

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Was unaware that Fuel Safe offered a papier mache'/stop sign/gypsum option. Came with AN fuel line and filter too.  Craigslist is your friend.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

DirtyDuc wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

Fuel cell 150

Is it made of Papier-mâché, Old Stop Signs, or Gypsum Board?

I bet you can buy a used one from a circle track car that passes tech for that.

It probably won't be the max 24 gallons, but who needs that when you're running an Imp?

no you can't I've been looking. the suckbutt thing is we race the other "cheap" league and you can  only go 2 gallons over  your stock tank. If everybody there could run 24 gallon tanks peoples heads would explode.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Pretty sure the 24gal ATL that Spank used in the Toronado and others was sub $150 but in general, the big FIA tanks are a lot harder to bargain find.   They pretty much need to be dated out which isn't an issue in Lemons but is in the other series.  The key is to be diligent about searching daily and jump as soon as one shows.  Theres a 22 gal on this very forum for $250 so c'mon, it's not like 150 is fairytale land.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

40 (edited by SpaceFrank 2018-04-28 08:05 PM)

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

I think my team is somewhere in the middle on the Spank-to-SCCA build cost spectrum. Initial build for the Dart, not including entry fees or personal gear:

$500 - Assumed Craigslist price if I'd bought the car, non-running (although Phil gave us an initial value of $2.25)
$80 - Carb rebuild kit and jetting kit
$60 - Engine top-end gasket kit (valve stem seals were gone, exhaust leaks everywhere)
$100 - New shocks (not very good ones)
$260 - New rear springs, since the ass was sagging and we were running out of time to do it cheaper
$100 - Assorted on-budget bits and pieces
-$40 - Sold the front bench seat to a forum guy
$900 - RCC kit + wire, gas, etc. (Pretty sure our kit alone was about $800 shipped)
$100 - More steel and supplies to fix the floor cancer
$240 - New Kirkey Road Race seat
$100 - Seat slider
$600 - Fire system
$500 - Front disc upgrade (junkyard spindles, new ball joints, calipers, and rotors)
$100 - Decent front pads
$600 - 6 wheels (new)
$400 - 6 Primewells
$100 - Assorted off-budget bits and pieces
$100 - Paint
$100 - Fluids

Comes out to $4940 if my math is right. A quick look says we could've done it for about half that if we'd bought a used race seat, foregone the fire system, and gone for a true spirit of IoE build: stock wheels, 4-wheel drum brakes, less SRS about the suspension, etc.

That being said, add another $1000 if we didn't know how to weld.

I think a lot of people are vastly underestimating the nickel and dime expenses.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

https://tucson.craigslist.org/pts/d/8-g … 27934.html

That's a fuel cell that can be made legal for less than $150, assuming there's no foam in it.

It's only 8 gallons, but it's fine for a little old foreign car that does fuel and likely had a tank about that size stock. Nobody in my team can run two hour stints anyway and it doesn't take much longer to drop 5 gallons in every hour to hour and a half as it does to change old creaky and inexperienced drivers.

That guy

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Fishah wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:
Spank wrote:

Alternative title: Raw nerve ointment, please.
Alternative, alternative title: Show me how you built your $500 crapcan with your checkbook.


Please give me a spreadsheet of a $5000 build of a Lemons-legal $500 car that cannot be done more cheaply and with still a reasonably equivalent level of safety.

Personally, I’d prefer to see the opposite. You tell everyone they CAN do it cheaper, but what we could use is you SHOWING us how you do it that cheap.

From scratch, no re-used parts, no counting “friends with benefits”

You can see my spreadsheets in Eric’s thread, but I did this more for futzing with a car than cheap build. I just wanted an excuse to do the crap so I’m not a good examle of trying to do it smart and cheap. Also I will always pay more to work in the team garage than in the mud while everyone else gets to race. So I overspend too much to be a fair assesment.

Yep... We've heard from everyone else. Now it's Spanks turn to show us all how we've wasted our money so frivolously smile

Still waiting patiently smile

#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders

43 (edited by Mr.Yuck 2018-05-03 11:53 AM)

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

DirtyDuc wrote:

https://tucson.craigslist.org/pts/d/8-g … 27934.html

That's a fuel cell that can be made legal for less than $150, assuming there's no foam in it.

It's only 8 gallons, but it's fine for a little old foreign car that does fuel and likely had a tank about that size stock. Nobody in my team can run two hour stints anyway and it doesn't take much longer to drop 5 gallons in every hour to hour and a half as it does to change old creaky and inexperienced drivers.

8 gallons wouldn't feed our car 45 minutes.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Fishah wrote:
Fishah wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Personally, I’d prefer to see the opposite. You tell everyone they CAN do it cheaper, but what we could use is you SHOWING us how you do it that cheap.

From scratch, no re-used parts, no counting “friends with benefits”

You can see my spreadsheets in Eric’s thread, but I did this more for futzing with a car than cheap build. I just wanted an excuse to do the crap so I’m not a good examle of trying to do it smart and cheap. Also I will always pay more to work in the team garage than in the mud while everyone else gets to race. So I overspend too much to be a fair assesment.

Yep... We've heard from everyone else. Now it's Spanks turn to show us all how we've wasted our money so frivolously smile

Still waiting patiently smile

I think sometimes he spends more $$ on the theme then the car.

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Fishah wrote:
Fishah wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

Personally, I’d prefer to see the opposite. You tell everyone they CAN do it cheaper, but what we could use is you SHOWING us how you do it that cheap.

From scratch, no re-used parts, no counting “friends with benefits”

You can see my spreadsheets in Eric’s thread, but I did this more for futzing with a car than cheap build. I just wanted an excuse to do the crap so I’m not a good examle of trying to do it smart and cheap. Also I will always pay more to work in the team garage than in the mud while everyone else gets to race. So I overspend too much to be a fair assesment.

Yep... We've heard from everyone else. Now it's Spanks turn to show us all how we've wasted our money so frivolously smile

Still waiting patiently smile

There does exist a situation that you likely are not privy to that has been consuming his time.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

cheseroo wrote:
Fishah wrote:
Fishah wrote:

Yep... We've heard from everyone else. Now it's Spanks turn to show us all how we've wasted our money so frivolously smile

Still waiting patiently smile

There does exist a situation that you likely are not privy to that has been consuming his time.

The world operates on my schedule dude.

#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders

47 (edited by Troy 2018-05-04 08:30 PM)

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

240Z Build Cost - $4948.14

I posted this in the Yahoo Group in 2009
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/24h … Mons/files
240Z Build Cost.pdf

So how do you spend $5000 on a $500 car?

240Z Purchase                                                     $200.00
280ZX Donor/Parts Car                                       $150.00
Car Total                                                                 $350.00

Salvage Sales                                                       $468.80

With a cheap car and salvage sales the initial carcass was less than free now we need to turn it into a race car!

May the spending begin:

Safety Stuff:

Brakes:
P/B Booster                                            $108.24
Master Cylinder                                       $32.24
Hard Line and Tools                              $26.58
Front Calipers                                         $59.39
Brake Fittings                                          $14.05
Rear Calipers                                         $90.00
Front Pads (Porterfield R4 x2)           $323.00
Rear Pads (Hawks x2)                        $129.56
Caliper Brackets (rear disc conv)     $268.13
Brake Total                                                                          $1159.90        (We had enough old rotors to turn and use)

Tires:
Toyo T1R x 8                                                                        $1134.25

Fuel Cell:
12 gal RCI Craigslist                             $50.00
Clamps                                                    $12.08
PCV Valve (not sure why its here)         $2.48
Breather/Filter                                         $10.81
Gas Gauge & Sender                          $152.55
Fuel Lines                                                $50.00
Conduit (metal cover over vent line)    $25.00
Fuel Cell Total:                                                                       $302.92

Roll Cage:
Jegster (DO NOT USE THIS NOW!!)  $269.99
Shipping                                                     $99.00
Texas Iron                                                 $119.02
Brookshire Steel                                     $120.00
Drill Press CL (1/2 drill will work fine!) $80.00
Notcher                                                       $50.00
Hole Saws (buy online to save)             $45.00
Roll Cage Total:                                                                      $783.01

Harnesses & Seats:
2 Latch Links                                           $119.90
Mounting Tabs                                           $33.76
Crap Plastic Seats (CL)                        $100.00
Shipping                                                     $26.75
Return & Exchange Shipping                 $50.00
Harness & Seats Total                                                           $357.16          (All this got replaced after first race with better stuff!)

Suspension:
Used Struts                                               $20.00
Used Springs                                           $20.00
Bushings                                                   $56.35
Suspension Total:                                                                    $96.35

Engine:
Main Bearings                                          $31.85
Rod Bearing                                             $38.60
Rings                                                         $66.63   
Gaskets                                                     $87.25
Water Pump                                              $21.65
Damper Mod                                             $25.00
Belt                                                                $5.40
Hoses                                                        $22.52
Fuel Filters                                                  $5.13
Engine Paint                                               $5.00
Spark Plugs                                              $12.00
Engine Total:                                                                            $321.04

Additional Expenses:
Head with Cam                                        $20.00
Exhaust                                                      $20.00
Battery Hold Downs                                   $9.72
Mighty Putty (filled lots of holes)            $10.81
Clutch Master & Slave                             $37.95
Fire Extinguisher                                      $32.15
Tail Lights                                                  $25.00
Paint                                                           $50.00
Cutting & Grinding Wheels                    $80.00
Clutch Hose                                              $10.00
Welding Gas                                             $40.00
Cutting Torch Repair                               $30.00
Additional Expenses Total:                                                   $365.63

Build Total:                                                                             $4870.26

Track Repairs @ First Race
Clutch                                                         $120.00
Ball Joints (safety today not in 2008)   $124.00                                 
Track Repair Total                                                                 $244.00

How does $4870.26 result in a $500 Car?

240Z Purchase (police auction)            $200.00
280ZX (CL)                                                 $150.00
Engine                                                        $321.04
Suspension                                                 $96.35
Head with Cam                                           $20.00
Clutch Master, Slave & Hose                    $47.95
Subtotal                                                      $835.34
Salvage Sales                                          -$467.80
Lemons Total                                                                       $367.54

We over bought tires and brakes for the first race.
We upgraded the rear brake pads to Porterfield R4s after the first race.
          We use Raybestos ST43s now. They last a LONG time!
We replaced the latch link belts with camlocks after first race.
          We currently have FIA camlocks that were about $150.00.
          FIA belts are a little more expensive and have a longer certification.
Plastic Drag bucket seats were replaced with Kirky seats.

10 years later still kicking ass and taking names!

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

We were cheapsters when we built the RSX for the first race. Being that none of us had raced endurance before, and we weren't sure how the car would last, we went at it with a "this may be a 1 and done" approach. So:

-$250 Acura RSX
+$400 Sold seats and sunroof assembly and other stuff
-$1600 DOM rollcage built
-$150 Procar ProSport seat
-$80 Racequip harness
-$100 Rollbar padding and other stuff
-$100 Switch
-$700 Brake upgrades
-$300 Suspension upgrades
-$200 Random hardware and PVC pipe and such
-$800 2 full sets of Hankook Rs3's on closeout
-$400 Set of Motegi wheels

So all in about $4300

Once it held together with really no hiccups so far after 2 races, and it's life expectancy is extended, we started changing stuff this winter.
On the short list is a better seat, better harnesses, and a proper fire supression system.
As the car gets better/faster, I'm sure the list will change again. When do we actually get to start making money off of racecar? LOL

Team BAD Company Endurance
Acura RSX #0
4 times losers, and counting...
"I got screwed" winners? 2018 Cure for Gingervitis, 5th on laps overall 2018 Elite meet to Cheat

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

Rustyjeep wrote:

As the car gets better/faster, I'm sure the list will change again. When do we actually get to start making money off of racecar? LOL

Never...in fact the bleeding continues and often gets worse as you build cars 2 and 3...and maybe 4.

Re: The "Build me a $5,000 $500 Lemons car" Thread

We built a legit $388 car with total cost of $4158. I tracked pretty close in year one.

$200 Crashed, running BMW 318ti
$108 Body panels from Junkyard (overkill)
$215 Various freshening things (boots, hose clamps, fuel filter, ebay bumper, trans mounts, etc)

($135) Non-exempt sold parts (passenger seat, interior, shift boot, glove box)

Safety stuff:
$356 Tie rods Lower control arms (They were broken from crash, so that's legit, right?)
$3440 Cage material, welding supplies, seat, fire suppression, slider, kill switch, tires, paint, brake pads

Ran both days and were pretty happy about that.

https://youtu.be/uvB0FQjVYSI