Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

hkerekes wrote:
Dudefladge wrote:

The '62 Valiant has nice wheel arches in the rear. As long as you have a stiff enough suspension you can run wider tires/wheels. No way we could do that on the 64 Valiant. Those wheel wells are very restrictive.

We have been running Explorer and Mustang 16X7 wheels so far. For CMP we have a set of Mustang 17X8s.

Im serious about those gears, you can have a set if you need it.    Im just over in Raleigh.

Thanks for that. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find the 3.55 and/or 3.73 geared 8.8 we're after. It's the LSD that seems to be the elusive part right now.

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

77 (edited by hkerekes 2022-02-17 02:31 PM)

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Just make sure you match the axle splines to the differential, and the IRS 8.8 are different than the solid axle 8.8.
I searched facebook marketplace for a bit before my auburn 28 spline differential showed up.  Alot of people upgrade from the 28 spline stuff to 31 spline or larger.    They sell the 28 spline cheap since not many people use it anymore.   

I believe the only decent factory ford 8.8 differential is the torsen t2 found in some later mustangs but it wont be cheap.   The clutches in the other differentials do not hold up for track use.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

hkerekes wrote:

I believe the only decent factory ford 8.8 differential is the torsen t2 found in some later mustangs but it wont be cheap.   The clutches in the other differentials do not hold up for track use.

Granted we put in the upgraded clutches before installing it but ours has lasted quite a few races with significant torque through it.  Curous what you are pushing it with if you are burning up a "clutch type" axle in Lemons racing?

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

OnkelUdo wrote:
hkerekes wrote:

I believe the only decent factory ford 8.8 differential is the torsen t2 found in some later mustangs but it wont be cheap.   The clutches in the other differentials do not hold up for track use.

Granted we put in the upgraded clutches before installing it but ours has lasted quite a few races with significant torque through it.  Curous what you are pushing it with if you are burning up a "clutch type" axle in Lemons racing?


Its not just the torque but the grip/width of the tires as well.   They will wear out and you will have to replace them.    Its just not something i want to continually have to dig into for an inferior setup.   Auburn are still a " clutch type"  its a cone clutch though.  They dont wear like the ford clutch type.    We have been breaking so much shit, differential maintence for an inferior lsd isnt something i want to mess with.      Anyone who races continually will replace the ford clutch type with a torsen, auburn, etc.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

hkerekes wrote:

     Anyone who races continually will replace the ford clutch type with a torsen, auburn, etc.

Bold statement...challenge accepted!

OF course they will eventually wear out as they are a friction material but so will brake pads, actual clutch, even the head gasket on a Buick 3800 (literally worn out).

We have always taken the opposite view of not getting the "best" but more the best we can with readily available repair/replacement parts.  Granted, we have had to give in on the transmision (oddly on two different cars) and driveshaft to the best solution but that is pretty close to the only exception unless it is an IoE car.  Brake upgrades have always been OEM solutions (though from other vehicles) for parts availability at hte local chain store for example.  Suspension as well.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Dudefladge wrote:

Thanks.  I have the axle codes and tag information to help find what I'm looking for, but all of the ones with LSDs were already picked. I found several 3.55, 3.73, and 4.10 open diffs though. For the early A body we grab another short side axle and shorten the long side of the housing.

For this car we think 3.55 or 3.73 will be about what we want. We hope to upgrade to a 5 speed eventually...

Right now we are running the little Mopar 7 1/4 with a 3.55 Sure Grip and a 904 automatic trans. The rear diff is probably one of the weaker links in our set up. It has done fine for two races so far, but probably better to plan an upgrade.


the 7.25 will be fine for what you have now. If you step up the power and go to a stick you'll have to be careful when you are going thru the gears. But this isn't drag racing...

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

82 (edited by hkerekes 2022-02-19 12:50 PM)

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

OnkelUdo wrote:
hkerekes wrote:

     Anyone who races continually will replace the ford clutch type with a torsen, auburn, etc.

Bold statement...challenge accepted!

OF course they will eventually wear out as they are a friction material but so will brake pads, actual clutch, even the head gasket on a Buick 3800 (literally worn out).

We have always taken the opposite view of not getting the "best" but more the best we can with readily available repair/replacement parts.  Granted, we have had to give in on the transmision (oddly on two different cars) and driveshaft to the best solution but that is pretty close to the only exception unless it is an IoE car.  Brake upgrades have always been OEM solutions (though from other vehicles) for parts availability at hte local chain store for example.  Suspension as well.


Brakes, clutch etc are designed to wear.   Differentials do have options that last much longer, the ford oem differential is a cheap design and fairly suboptimal one for racing.    I spent $100 on the Auburn differential and didnt even have the oem lsd in the first place  The upgraded plates( if i had a factory lsd) were more $ than my better differential. .

Why not one and done instead of sticking with oem stuff?    We could not keep brake pads with the oem brakes, and were cooking the calipers. Getting the heat out of the brakes was a huge issue.   Spending $ on a nice brake setup is saving me money on pads/rotors for every race.  If i had to i could swap my 2 piece rotor with an off the shelf ford rotor.   I wont ever need to but i could.  Calipers dont typically go bad but a wilwood 6 piston is very easy to find. 

I guess it depends on how fast the car is and how much oem parts you can use.    We were/are constantly breaking oem parts.

83 (edited by OnkelUdo 2022-02-19 02:15 PM)

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

hkerekes wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:
hkerekes wrote:

     Anyone who races continually will replace the ford clutch type with a torsen, auburn, etc.

Bold statement...challenge accepted!

OF course they will eventually wear out as they are a friction material but so will brake pads, actual clutch, even the head gasket on a Buick 3800 (literally worn out).

We have always taken the opposite view of not getting the "best" but more the best we can with readily available repair/replacement parts.  Granted, we have had to give in on the transmision (oddly on two different cars) and driveshaft to the best solution but that is pretty close to the only exception unless it is an IoE car.  Brake upgrades have always been OEM solutions (though from other vehicles) for parts availability at hte local chain store for example.  Suspension as well.


Brakes, clutch etc are designed to wear.   Differentials do have options that last much longer, the ford oem differential is a cheap design and fairly suboptimal one for racing.    I spent $100 on the Auburn differential and didnt even have the oem lsd in the first place  The upgraded plates( if i had a factory lsd) were more $ than my better differential. .

Why not one and done instead of sticking with oem stuff?    We could not keep brake pads with the oem brakes, and were cooking the calipers. Getting the heat out of the brakes was a huge issue.   Spending $ on a nice brake setup is saving me money on pads/rotors for every race.  If i had to i could swap my 2 piece rotor with an off the shelf ford rotor.   I wont ever need to but i could.  Calipers dont typically go bad but a wilwood 6 piston is very easy to find. 

I guess it depends on how fast the car is and how much oem parts you can use.    We were/are constantly breaking oem parts.

I could counter all of those arguments but we are on opposite sides of the spectrum of Lemons racers...or so it appears.  Short version, Corvette C5 calipers and rotors are readily available, inexpensive and they have the CHEAPEST ST43's we have ever purchased for any caliper.  If a rotor is damaged from loosing a wheel...zip down to Autozone for one if you failed to carry a spare.

And we will keep track of the life of our diff clutch pack.  You have thrown down a gauntlet so I kinda have no choice.  Have a spreasheet of laps already raced so I guess I just have to run them until failure (not really) instead of inspecting conditions this winter.  Before Barber, where we did at least 300 laps, we had run 1996 laps and use the easy 2 miles a lap you have just shy of 4000 (likely closer to 5000 with Barber and the fact that all the tracks are at least a little over 2 mies) racing miles.  For a $100 clutch pack I call that worth it.

84 (edited by hkerekes 2022-02-19 07:11 PM)

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

c5 calipers and rotors are no better than the factory crown vic stuff. I actually have the adapters to mount them to the factory spindle.  We have lots of tire and decent hp.   Our car is likely a bit faster than yours, we smoked brake pads, rotors, and calipers after each race.     Wilwood pads and calipers are really cheap, i have less than $500 into two calipers and lines.  I paid $200 for a set of the er1 hawk pads and they barely look worn after road atlanta.  Parts store rotors are also trash, i had connecting heat cracks after 1 race on a set of 14" x 1.25" boss 302 rotors.     After 1 race on the same size girodisc 2 piece rotors we have no heat cracks. 

I have $100 into a road race differential that wont need rebuilds.   Why would i spend $100 everytime to keep rebuilding an inferior differential?

I'm not criticizing your stuff, im just explaining why im not running it.      We simply are too fast for many oem parts.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

And now back to the regularly scheduled program... LOL

We threw some old salvage yard engine in it this weekend... Nothing to see here... ;-)

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Dudefladge wrote:

And now back to the regularly scheduled program... LOL

We threw some old salvage yard engine in it this weekend... Nothing to see here... ;-)

does it have 2 more cylinders?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Im on our 2nd junkyard motor.   The original motor died to to lack of coolant, our second motor had low compression in #5.   Something went south with the intake valve, its either the seat, guide, or valve.   Hopefully #3 lasts longer than the first two.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Mr.Yuck wrote:
Dudefladge wrote:

And now back to the regularly scheduled program... LOL

We threw some old salvage yard engine in it this weekend... Nothing to see here... ;-)

does it have 2 more cylinders?

Heck no!! This car will keep the Leaning Tower of Power, thank you very much!

This engine is black... instead of blue... with a red head... and lace painted valve cover... that's all... LOL

The original engine was fine and is now the backup engine.

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Dudefladge wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
Dudefladge wrote:

And now back to the regularly scheduled program... LOL

We threw some old salvage yard engine in it this weekend... Nothing to see here... ;-)

does it have 2 more cylinders?

Heck no!! This car will keep the Leaning Tower of Power, thank you very much!

This engine is black... instead of blue... with a red head... and lace painted valve cover... that's all... LOL

The original engine was fine and is now the backup engine.


Rock on...

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

We removed ToadRacer (TR) Slant 1.5 and put in TR Slant 2.0.

TR 1.5 was fine. We raced TR 1.0 at Sebring with no problems and put on a slightly better head for NCM (TR 1.5)

One longevity concern is oil control, so TR 2.0 has a modified oil pan.

The other improvement since NCM is the much better fuel filler location. No more lifting five gallon fuel jugs under the trunk lid.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/Lwi4EG.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/4TUbYz.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/TR15Hx.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/1ZKrUs.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/yc2fjE.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/DqFmQO.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/G1abLp.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/bcMNI5.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/TZYdRY.jpg

Almost ready for CMP!

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

looks good

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Just stumbled on this thread, this thing is the shiz. Hella good job boys, this ol Mopar is now living its best life.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Thank you!  It’s really fun to drag an old car out of a field as a parts car and instead turn it into a fun race car. Our team members all get along really well and each bring a little different skill set. Good times!

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

94 (edited by Dudefladge 2022-04-25 09:55 AM)

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

CMP was fun.

ToadRacer was driven to the race from Blacksburg, VA (about 250 miles). That was a good break in and shake down for the new Slant 6 engine.

Testing Friday was great! Two of us had never been to CMP before, so it was good to get on track and try things out before the race.

Taking the kink at full throttle in a 60 year old Mopar on sticky tires is SO much fun!!

Saturday started off pretty good with the best lap time of 2:00.xxx. The new engine probably has about 30-40 more HP than the first one.

Then we had rear brake issues a couple times... worked through that...

Then the little 7 1/4 differential started complaining (about taking the kink at full throttle...)... Keep going, it'll be fine...

Then Deja Vu hit!!

Barber 2018 was my first Lemons race driving a 64 Valiant Signet. They were leading class on Saturday until the air cleaner bolt snapped and went through 5 of the 6 cylinders, eventually putting a hole in #2 piston.

My stint was close to the bitter end with the #2 pushrods removed and the car running on maybe 4 cylinders. I lasted about 45 minutes until the burning oil and smoke fumes became too much to bear...

This time the nut we added to keep the stud in place only went through 1 and 6 and was caught before catastrophic damage was done. We removed the head, verified we could still go on, replaced one valve and she fired back to life. Ready to hit the track again.

Unfortunately, the part we knew to be the weakest link proved us right. The little 7 1/4 differential with a sure-grip (try finding one of those these days) turned into a spool with nerve shattering clunking.

It was at that point we decided to call it a day.

I guess we need to quit talking about upgrading the differential and actually do it now.

See you at NCM in September!

That's ToadRacer in a nutshell.

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Try finding an 8.8 out of Furd Exploder. They are plenty strong and won't cost what an 8.75 will plus they come w/ rear discs...I guess you could try an 8.25.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

8.8 is the plan.  I'm heading to the pull a part again this weekend. Also contacting some people on Marketplace.

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Dudefladge wrote:

8.8 is the plan.  I'm heading to the pull a part again this weekend. Also contacting some people on Marketplace.

SoI have pulled 3 Exploder 8.8's now fromthe PnP. IF the vehicle is well supported it is pretty quick.  Bring something to cut the e-brake cables is my biggest suggestion.  You are not removing them.

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

For what its worth ...I have a factory "open" Mopar 8.25" in my Cordoba. 5 full races with no issues. And we are not kind to it. They made them forever.  I think there are pretty popular in more modern Jeeps and Dakota pick ups as well.


Good luck.......Your car is Great .... Need more like it!

Cordoba

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

Jimmy wrote:

For what its worth ...I have a factory "open" Mopar 8.25" in my Cordoba. 5 full races with no issues. And we are not kind to it. They made them forever.  I think there are pretty popular in more modern Jeeps and Dakota pick ups as well.


Good luck.......Your car is Great .... Need more like it!

I ordered my 95 Dakota Sport with a 5.2, 5 speed and 3.92 sure grip, thing was a beast, but I did manage to break 2 rears drag racing...but they should be fine for what we do. not sure if it would be too wide???

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Off-Kilter Racing - '62 Valiant Slant 6 in Kentucky

I have a couple 8 1/4s in various states.  The beauty of the Explorer 8.8 is the already present disc brakes, used and new parts availability and being able to find a 3.73 or 3.55 with a sure grip pretty easily.  Just grab an extra short side axle and cut 2 7/8" out of the long tube.

The Dakota 8 1/4 works well in the A bodies. I put one in a Duster many years ago. It was almost a bolt in deal. The extra width isn't as big of a deal with the Dusters and early toads because of the high rear wheel arches. The 63-66 A bodies are more difficult to fit decent sized tires on.

Off-Kilter Racing
'62 Plymouth Valiant "ToadRacer" - Organizer's Choice, IOE...