Topic: Looking to tent out seat

Totally new to this just got car
True $500 legal car got cleared check and bill of sale 350z
Guess since new and a factory 03 350z  will be C class
Trying to figure out seat rental cost and will depend on track based in Kansas

https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEDWKZF

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Lemons does not current race at a track in Kansas.

You need a completed, tech worthy car to charge for rentals and that takes 2-12 X longer than you think.

All that said, we can talk theoreticals.  You have no on-track pedigree so no one knows if you (more important than the actual car) are capable of taking the green and checkered each day....this is for the track whores who might be wary of this unless they have multiple rides lined up.  The car is complicated and difficult to work on at the track due to the packaging of everything...so a lot of the "fast" adventureous drivers will take this in combination with the former and likely take a pass until it has a track pedigree.

So now you are down to the core of arrive and drive drivers...newbies looking for a first ride and guys whose teams could not get it together for that specific race.  A big'ish pool.

For five drivers I would say likely 750-800 each max.  In short, you will cover your consumable costs plus MAYBE (likely not) $400 for the weekend.  Which is 1/15th of your build cost most likely.  If you and the car prove reliablen over time, that can creep up to $900...but likely not in Kansas if Lemons ever goes back.  Make it a consistent class A/overall competitor, both the car and the team, some people go over a $1000.  It is all a calculation of how much money per race you are willing to loose...not make.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Car and crew all proven and know in endurance racing and track record.
Car came with spare motor, transmission  crates full of body suspension steering brakes parts and wheels.
Was complete  buy out Everything  that was in building for a 350Z
Everything  is FIA certification  cage and all.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

OnkelUdo wrote:

[snip]
You need a completed, tech worthy car to charge for rentals and that takes 2-12 X longer than you think.

I initially read this ^ as "2 1/2 X longer"; clearly, my mistake.

OnkelUdo wrote:

[snip]
It is all a calculation of how much money per race you are willing to loose...not make.

OnkelUdo is known for his clarity - this is another example, and a reminder I needed.

But I'm going to define the money aspect not as "losing", but as "spending it to participate in an activity I enjoy."

(I know it's a rationalization, but it'll make me feel better.)

5 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2022-09-25 04:24 PM)

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Ahh - you didn't initially mention 'cage'; ... nevermind.

And congratulations on your find - that's a home run.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Do I just bring Bill of sale and cleared check as proof  of cost since I didn't buy a street car and then ship and build it?
All I got to do is exempt  stuff  put bigger seat in  clean and inspect  parts stuff like that

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Good luck, and I would love to be a fly on the wall at your first tech.

"We Got Screwed" NHMS 2017, 4th NHMS 2020,  4th NJMP 2021,
"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
#847 Batmobile  aka-"Beulah"  search Squidrope Racing on Facebook

Re: Looking to tent out seat

What's that's supposed  to mean??   Squidrope

Re: Looking to tent out seat

350z wrote:

What's that's supposed  to mean??   Squidrope

I would as well! I'm all ears to learn new stuff from people who know more than me. So I'm hoping your first Lemons race will be near me.

I stayed at tech my first visit to a Lemons race, and I learned a ton, watching every car come through. I listened to the inspectors - who were car guys (and I'm not, really) - and the responses. Everybody knew a lot.

(Now I'm on my way to the Newcomers subheading for your other post. )

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Let me note:

each of 350z's first posts in each subheading specifically asked about seat rental estimation help - nothing else.

There's additional information about safety equipment, but that may be merely to indicate the car would be eligible for, and can likely run in Lemons so that he can sell seat time in a HOT car at a Lemons race.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

350z wrote:

Car and crew all proven and know in endurance racing and track record.
Car came with spare motor, transmission  crates full of body suspension steering brakes parts and wheels.
Was complete  buy out Everything  that was in building for a 350Z
Everything  is FIA certification  cage and all.

Don't bury the lead then. What is the car's record in Lemons (or even Chump) for starting and finishing races?  When is the last time it raced?  If your team is proven, what team?

Having bought a legit, recently tech'ed Lemons car is a great way to do it. Absolutely the cheapest, fastest way to get to track.  Answer the above questions and might get you closer.  Most of the folks willing to spend over $800 in the Midwest really want to know what they are getting into.  Also, what track(s) are you planning to run that Lemons frequents?

12 (edited by 350z 2022-09-26 07:30 AM)

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Lemons staff stalker
I looked at buying pre race Lemons car but all was way out of my budget and would have been many many laps down before I even showed up.    When a used Lemons car is listed for $5,000 that's a lot of laps you get hit by.
No way I'm sending $5,000 on a Lemons car or even $2,000

Re: Looking to tent out seat

350z wrote:

Lemons staff stalker
I looked at buying pre race Lemons car but all was way out of my budget and would have been many many laps down before I even showed up.    When a used Lemons car is listed for $5,000 that's a lot of laps you get hit by.
No way I'm sending $5,000 on a Lemons car or even $2,000

You need to read and then re-read the cost/pricing rules. When you are buying a pre-raced vehicle, the cost of the safety equipment is exempt. In the old days, people would literally list the car for sale and break out the cost into two pieces. $500.00 for the car and $3500.00 for the safety equipment. That has gone away and people just list the car for total amount including safety equipment. It's assumed that the car costs $500 of that or the car is free with all the safety equipment.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Looking to tent out seat

350z wrote:

Totally new to this just got car
True $500 legal car got cleared check and bill of sale 350z
Guess since new and a factory 03 350z  will be C class
Trying to figure out seat rental cost and will depend on track based in Kansas

https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEDWKZF

An '03 350z will be Class A, not C.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

15 (edited by 350z 2022-09-26 08:42 AM)

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Lemons  Staff stalker.   I didn't  know that
Since says your labor is free but pay someone  it goes  into cost of the $500 car.
The exempt  stuff don't count then now way anyone could say not a $500 car
A 20yr old striped none running  350Z can be bought for $500 all day long  even in today's stupid  market
Figured being a Z that's not the best car for a race car.  Heavy and nose heavy both then brand new team with zero Lemons experience  and true $500 car and Nicole and dime deal be in C class. And totally  ok with being a C class car/team

Re: Looking to tent out seat

I would recommend you go to a race soon and ask a ton of questions to the teams and the judges. Maybe this would help clarify how this all works. There really is a community of racers and judges who want you to get on track. Just ask and a lot of people will give you as much help as they can.
Manny.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Militias
I tried to rent a seat to go that way.
All I was told we don't race in kansas when asked where I live.  I guess have to race in home state or something
Or I ask questions  about car and safety  equipment  was told I was stupid and not to worry about if I was concerned  about safety and getting hurt I shouldn't  go race  and just be talked down on because I wanted to make sure I fit the car

Re: Looking to tent out seat

You keep mentioning Class C, but unless you are running something like a nissan juke motor with a CVT transmission in that thing, the pictures alone make it look like a race prepped A class car. To be clear, you don't start in C class just because you're new to Lemons. You start where the judges think your car should be classed.

Case in point:
- hoosier slicks (illegal in Lemons)
- "real" sponsor decals, not parody funny ones.
- Koni Challenge decals (puts the car in grand-am club racing or better arena)
- No theme on your car, just looks like a race car.

There was a 350Z (donut media) car at NCM this past weekend, it was definitely A class. To get C class you would need to do something so sacrilegious or terrible to that car that the judges would think you had no chance of breaking into the top half of the field as a result.

This is also the reason people were commenting that they wanted to see your first Lemons tech inspection. Because if you think you're going to get a car that looks like that into Class C, or even into Class A without any penalty laps, you may be in for a tough ride. Your average Class C car looks something like this:
https://24hoursoflemons.com/wp-content/ … Benz-1.jpg

You don't need to race in your home state. I live in Columbus and Lemons doesn't do Nelson Ledges or Mid Ohio. People were just mentioning that there aren't any races in Kansas, so you're going to have to tow a bit further to reach anywhere in the schedule. That will drive up your fuel and travel costs, and the amount you'll need to charge drivers just to break even.

As for your initial question of "arrive and drive" costs, it's Lemons, keep that in mind. It's not like Helio Castroneves is going to be looking to pay to drive your car. I've observed arrive & drive pricing over the past three years from anywhere between $800-$1500 per race average. If you're thinking about charging more than that and you haven't raced in Lemons before, then you may just want to try and find a few other local guys to join your team as full time drivers rather than trying to find unknown drivers.

If you're thinking about selling seat time for profit, Lemons is probably not for you, and something like WRL, NASA, SCCA or AER might be a better fit. Lemons registration is ~$1600 per race, all other costs are specific to your team. Make a budget, or just do a race and see how much you've spent. That would give you a much better idea than just speculating.

World record simca driver, kei car owner, zymurgist
1989 Merkur XR4Ti - Project Merkur Space Program - Winner "Halloween Meets Gasoline" The Pitt Maneuver 2022
1980 Dodge Challenger: Most Extreme eLemonAtion Challenger (Rust Belt Ramble 2021 Dishonorable Mention)

Re: Looking to tent out seat

KeiCarMike
Yes still have to buy tires just has rollers on it.  Talking to Michelin engineers at road Atlanta  this week and Pirelli next at indy about tire recommendations  for Lemons.
Stickers don't make a car a race car or something  special.
On the kansas deal was when I tried to rent a seat.   Someone out of California I believe  was renting seat and I messaged  them. Asked where I lived said kansas and said we don't race their.  I was like ok how much is a seat and all he could say we don't go to kansas.
If ends up with any problems  Helio Castroneves  will be the least qualified  guy driving that event  and have full IMSA GTD PRO  crew and setup at the race

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Talking to Michelin engineers at road Atlanta  this week and Pirelli next at indy about tire recommendations  for Lemons.

You do know that Lemons staff reads the forums, right? Statements like these make a huge case for the judges to award you penalty laps and  assume you're bringing a super cheaty car to race with.

I totally disagree with your sticker statement, especially since the second largest award (in value) in Lemons is based on your car's theme. The "halloween meets gasoline" winner gets paid out more than the winner of the race in overall laps.

Also, didn't mention it before, but your $500 receipt means absolutely nothing to the judges if they think your car is worth more. Otherwise people would be faking it all over the place to try and get super cheaty cars in without penalties.

World record simca driver, kei car owner, zymurgist
1989 Merkur XR4Ti - Project Merkur Space Program - Winner "Halloween Meets Gasoline" The Pitt Maneuver 2022
1980 Dodge Challenger: Most Extreme eLemonAtion Challenger (Rust Belt Ramble 2021 Dishonorable Mention)

Re: Looking to tent out seat

KeiCarMike  who else be better to talk to than a tire guy about tire recommendations?
Car is not at all cheated up.  It's as factory as you can get.    Not like the fox body's  miata BMW and so that are $5,000 for one that's completely  junked out

Re: Looking to tent out seat

I am starting to think there is some chain-yanking happening here.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Wendell34 wrote:

I am starting to think there is some chain-yanking happening here.

Once lawyers started getting mentioned...

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Looking to tent out seat

350z wrote:

KeiCarMike  who else be better to talk to than a tire guy about tire recommendations?

The folks racing the series you do in a similar car.

Falken tries to tell us the RT660 replaces the RT615K+ for endurance racing and it does not.  Not many of us left on the forums but about a half dozen of us have more than two dozen races, over two-four generations of 200 TW tires.  We have watched poor tires in gen one get great in gen 2 then meh in gen 3 (Direzza). We have seen the rise of an unexpected competitor to top pick (for most cars) from last pick for all cars (Hankook RS4 verses all previous Hankook).  The Engineers you are talking to are either speaking a different language (not running two 7-8 hour days on the same set of tires) or just a likely sales people for the tires.

We had a tire engineer for the OEM's on a partner team that was a wealth of knowledge because he did not work for the manufacturer.

I really am not getting your approach here.  No one rebuffs an arrive and drive or crew for the state they live in.  You just have to offer yourself up for races you are willing to travel to instead of just saying you are in Kansas.

But back to your original question of what you can charge.  Likely at this point, the percentage of the entry fee if you are advertising for a Lemons race.  Eat the consumable costs.  This is because you have a expressed clearly you will not know how to run a car in the racing series and limitted track time will be the result.

Re: Looking to tent out seat

Wendell34 wrote:

I am starting to think there is some chain-yanking happening here.

Or some top-level trolling,at the least........  big_smile

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)