Re: DIY Cool Shirt

I was able to water cool the hot side of my devices. That was the only way I was able to get it stable. I ran many units mixed in series and bridged to get the surface area required and also keep the Amperage workable for racing.  Ambiant temp is the killer. No matter what you think you can get from the device at full potential I couldn't get a device with a hot side of 110F to get below 70F on the cold side.

FYI... Cool shirts will be discontinuing the 6K system for a replacment system by next year. It works... Just not as good as Plan B.

_______________
#3 IROC MAIDEN

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

steve wrote:
Mr. Wednesday wrote:

If you don't mind spending ~$30, you may be able to find a marine aerator switch at a sporting good store that will do always-on, and one minute on with one, three, five, and seven minutes off cycles, rated for ~10A (a lot more than the pump will draw).  I got one at an Academy store in Houston for our system.


I like this idea !!

We did this last year, man was it nice. Flip that bad boy on and drive.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

153

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

I just corrected my post, #141. Ice chest systems use about 200-250 watts per hour, not btu's, that's like 3.1x more. That actually fits some human watts/ hour for walking (around 200)
Looks like the one I'm working on needs 3 more Peltiers...I'll do some more testing and report back.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

A little pic of my failed device.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/flyhiflylo/IMAG1076_zpsc3b6e4fb.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/flyhiflylo/IMAG1077_zps09a87a7a.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/flyhiflylo/IMAG1073_zps4cd7ba50.jpg

_______________
#3 IROC MAIDEN

155 (edited by jrbe 2013-07-31 05:20 PM)

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

This is the one I've been trying,

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss338/LeMons_panzer/2013/Cool%20shirt/IMAG2665_zps7d58a282.jpg

Not a great pic.  The blue things are the water blocks, 3 peltiers on each. The little dc motor bottom left is the cold side pump (theres the same pump for the hot side hidden.)  There is also a 120mmx240mmx20mm radiator with 2 surprisingly weak 120mm computer fans cooling the hot side of it not shown.

Scotty, i looked up your peltiers, looks like they claim they've got a 67'C Qmax.  Might be inflated specs though.  Did you have thermal transfer paste on both sides of the peltiers?  Im trying to figure out why yours got stuck at 40' temp difference, we're talking 40' farenheight there right?

The peltiers im using have a qmax of 77 watts each but they are undervolted. I'm hoping to see more heat moving next time. The next test i'm planning is beefing up the fan and radiator on the hot side and putting a 100 watt bulb (should be 90-100watts of heat) in a foam box and see what happens.  I'll use the previous hot side radiator in there with the fans to circulate the cold to see what happens. 

I'll post the results here if anyone is interested.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

jrbe wrote:

This is the one I've been trying,

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss338/LeMons_panzer/IMAG2665_zps7d58a282.jpg

Not a great pic.  The blue things are the water blocks, 3 peltiers on each. The little dc motor bottom left is the cold side pump (theres the same pump for the hot side hidden.)  There is also a 120mmx240mmx20mm radiator with 2 surprisingly weak 120mm computer fans cooling the hot side of it not shown.

Scotty, i looked up your peltiers, looks like they claim they've got a 67'C Qmax.  Might be inflated specs though.  Did you have thermal transfer paste on both sides of the peltiers?  Im trying to figure out why yours got stuck at 40' temp difference, we're talking 40' farenheight there right?

The peltiers im using have a qmax of 77 watts each but they are undervolted. I'm hoping to see more heat moving next time. The next test i'm planning is beefing up the fan and radiator on the hot side and putting a 100 watt bulb (should be 90-100watts of heat) in a foam box and see what happens.  I'll use the previous hot side radiator in there with the fans to circulate the cold to see what happens. 

I'll post the results here if anyone is interested.


The link to your pic is no good...

But holy crap... LOL I know exactly what you are talking about. I was going to do the EXACT same thing with the exact same coolers and pump from ebay. Cept I was going to get the double fan radiator.  Repost your pic link.  I'm going in a complete different direction with an actual 12vdc compressor system. It's cool to see you try that out. Save me some cash...

_______________
#3 IROC MAIDEN

157

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

I just fixed it. 

http://s589.photobucket.com/user/LeMons … amp;page=1 are some more pics of the stuff.

I grabbed everything i need to do the next test except for a tiny battery for my thermometer.  Cant find that little bastard anywhere local.  I should have some results some time next week.

I did consider refrigeration, in the end i decided adding a second beefy alternator would be easier than a compressor, lines, condensor, evaporator, and some way to get it into cooling liquid for a shirt.  The only DC a/c's i've seen are truck/rv sized or compressors for high voltage electric cars.  Did you find something decent you're willing to share? Theres the inverter & house AC route, but not exactly weight friendly.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

jrbe wrote:

I just fixed it. 

http://s589.photobucket.com/user/LeMons … amp;page=1 are some more pics of the stuff.

I grabbed everything i need to do the next test except for a tiny battery for my thermometer.  Cant find that little bastard anywhere local.  I should have some results some time next week.

I did consider refrigeration, in the end i decided adding a second beefy alternator would be easier than a compressor, lines, condensor, evaporator, and some way to get it into cooling liquid for a shirt.  The only DC a/c's i've seen are truck/rv sized or compressors for high voltage electric cars.  Did you find something decent you're willing to share? Theres the inverter & house AC route, but not exactly weight friendly.


Yes I did find a very tiny danfoss 12vdc compressor. almost no amp draw too. The system will weigh less than two gallons of water and could go to below zeroF

_______________
#3 IROC MAIDEN

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

I will say this... that was going to be my phase 3 of plan A.... Very interested to see how it advances. I was going to run 2 sets of 3 (6 peltiers)   What amp draw are you getting now?

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#3 IROC MAIDEN

160

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

From the Peltier specs I'd say each one pulls 8 amps. I just grabbed a meter that will read amperage, I'll have it in line with one Peltier next test to see for sure. I think amp draw is a sign of how the Peltier is doing too. 

I grabbed a kill a watt to see how much power the light bulbs are pulling just as a double check. I had forgotten about the no more 100 watt tungsten bulbs, I'm going to use 2 60 watt bulbs instead in the foam cooler to test the rig.That should guarantee at least 100 watts of heat to test with.

I'm definitely interested in how you make out with the refrigeration route. I'll keep posting my results/progress here.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

161

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

Don't get me wrong, I love the peltier/water block combination, and I look forward to incorporating it into our already unnecessarily complicated Lemons car someday.

But would't it be a lot easier to just use these for the ice/water vessels? Coleman claims that they will cool to 40 degrees below ambient, which in combination with the pelt/water block could practically make it so that you wouldn't have to change the ice/water out almost all day:

http://www.coleman.com/Products/8570/th … ic-coolers

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

162

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

Those Colman coolers are ThermoElectric Coolers (TEC, aka peltier.) From what i've found on the always true internet is that they use ~4 amps which is half of one of the peltiers i'm experimenting with, im thinking 6 of the peltiers i'm trying might be able to replace the ice at a whopping 50 amps of power usage.  6 might not be enough though. Either way, If the colman coolers have a cigarette lighter power as its power inlet the cooler is way too small to try to do what the ice is doing.  Yes, it will help keep it cold longer but dont expect a lot. They probably have it set up a bit more efficient than my test setup is currently but at absolute best I'd expect it to have 30 watts of cooling. I'd give a lemony guess it could extend cold time maybe 10-20% but its probably less than that.  That might be helpful to some teams though to match their cold capacity to their fuel capacity.

On a different note, has anyone using the bilge pumps tried to make a bypass hose y off the shirt feed hose and dump back into the cooler to allow less load on the pump? It could be done in the cooler. Allowing it to flow may help get the water going enough for it to start easier too. A simple barbed Y fitting and a big fish tank valve or some adjustable tubing clamp like http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a … ;catid=858 or possibly http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Flow_ … ging_Tools to limit flow enough that its still forced through the shirt but not overloading the pump.  The other option is a beefy resistor or maybe a house dimmer to drop the power to the pump to help control temperature. They sell the cfl/led dimmers with an adjustable low limit if the standard household dimmer drops off too low at the low end.  I havent tried any of this, just some ideas/workarounds for you guys using these large bilge pumps.

Oh, if anyone is trying to profit from these ideas previous to me mentioning them here just pm me and tell me to keep quiet.  Im planning on sharing my results of the setup im working on for everyone if it works with part #s and stuff.  It will definitely be power hungry though.

I'm thinking now i may have gotten the wrong voltage peltiers, getting 2 7.5v chips per branch wired in series would bring voltage closer to their rated max and maybe make better use of their power. We're only talking a 3% difference though. It would mean more water blocks going this route which isnt necessarily a bad thing except for cost and weight. 

I dont know how peltiers do with quick voltage spikes, hopefully the starter solenoid collapse spike doesnt kill them...their use in a lot of automotive cooler/heater stuff makes me think they're ok.  Looking into if something is needed to keep them alive.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

Instead of 50 amps of electric draw why not add an a/c compressor to the motor and use it to cool some water?  I bet it bogs the car down less than the peltiers.

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

I'll drop these off here. Experimenting with these in the other series.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shi … 36244.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shi … 63639.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shi … 56784.html

Just placed the order today, so no review on the performance of any of these. But enjoy the Engrish.

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

My pop brought one of them Coleman Thermo Electric coolers to the Ridge. Between the two of us we thought we would be twice as smart, and decided that a bag of ice should last just about forever in there.

Nope. As soon as the Pelty-majiggy got submersed in melting ice water it quit working completely. Perhaps one of us should have read the directions?!?

NAH!!!!

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

166

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

Those have some awesome Engrish, not even understandable really.. I'd be interested in how they do. I was at home depot a while back and looked at some wine cooler fridges, they were pricey and looked a lot like these without the tubes.

My thermometer died, I left it in the cold reservoir and I think condensation collected in the electronics overnight. It wouldn't turn on. I got 3 cheap electronic thermometers to replace it, it will make testing easier. They read within .1'f of each other.

I haven't been able to find the beefy mini radiator fan I had. I made the light bulb Styrofoam cooler test box but haven't done any further testing.

We got a second car that will probably further delay the testing of our setup. The cold weather won't help in getting useful results unless it warms up again.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

167

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

What about something like this?  http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/12858 … hicle.html

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

168

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

Bump....

Any other experiences with the cool seat idea?  If so, please do share pics and BOM's!

Team Failken: Formula D-Bags: #14 93 Nissan 240sx
Team Pro-Crash-Duh-Nation: #26 '87 Alfa Romeo Milano

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

We switched back to cool shirts.  The cool seat did work, it's just not as efficient as the cool shirt.  We started with a single pass tube attached to the outside of the seat cover then had multiple circuits going into manifolds on either side of the seat.  But the shirt cools both front and back and the seat just cools the back.  When it's 100+ you feel the seat but not as much as the shirt.  I just made sure to use longer tubing from the cooler with 90 degree elbow attachments to lessen the chance of someone forgetting to detach and breaking stuff on exit. 

The shirt requires a bit of maintenance as you have to hand wash it (project manager has declined to do it for me) and you need to remember to remove the fittings and let the water in the tubing evaporate.  It's starting to take on that midwestern-working-outside-in-100percent-humidity crunchy/funkyness to it so I can see replacing them every couple of years.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

cheseroo wrote:

I just made sure to use longer tubing from the cooler with 90 degree elbow attachments to lessen the chance of someone forgetting to detach and breaking stuff on exit.

I'm kind of bummed that your cool seat didn't work well.  I was contemplating doing that in our new car.

We use these in our cool suit set up to avoid breaking stuff:
(Female and Male dry breakaway fittings)
http://www.cpcworldwide.com/productlist … roduct=313
http://www.cpcworldwide.com/productlist … roduct=309

I think they were about $12 each, so about $50 per cooler.  If the driver forgets to disconnect, these break free pretty easily.  Also ensures that the driver isn't hung up if trying to get out of the car in an emergency.

Van

13X losers (or is 14 now?) refusing to learn from our failures.
Organizer's Choice!  Trophy should have a bottle opener on it.

171 (edited by IgnoranteWest 2015-07-15 10:38 AM)

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

In case it hasn't been mentioned, don't forget to insulate both the supply and return lines with that $0.25 per foot foam pipe insulation. I'm not sure how much longer it makes the cold water last but too cheap to omit!

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

172 (edited by IgnoranteWest 2015-07-15 10:44 AM)

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

Non-racing application for cool shirts.... (Comic Con Cosplayers Adam Savage and Chris Hadfield!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxRoK5LZa_A

Note that Commander Hadfield has a NASA quality acronym for the shirt component smile

ALLEGEDLY!

-Dave
Scuderia Ignorante // Modena / Dearborn / Aichi Prefecture / West Texas

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

stimpyvan wrote:

I'm kind of bummed that your cool seat didn't work well.  I was contemplating doing that in our new car. Van

It worked, just not as good as the shirts when racing at the Gates of Hell (Buttonwillow).  It made a difference whether you're wearing undies/1 layer, no undies/heavy quilted 2 layer or a "lightweight" 2 layer suits.  It was tough to feel through the quilted 2 layer but the others were ok.    For sub 90 degrees weather it might be ok.  Even when it's cold outside you still work up a sweat.  I also had to chase leaks from where I threaded the compression fittings into the PVC manifolds.  PVC glue didn't really work 100% as a sealer.

Yes, insulate the lines with cheap pipe insulation.  You need to tape it in multiple places to keep the tubing running inside.  Also the return side of your DIY cooler box should have a hose that drops the returning water onto the far side of the cooler from the intake.  Gives the water time to cool down so you don't stew in your own juices.  I was terminating the return line in the same area of the intake and moving it away did make a difference.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

174

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

cheseroo wrote:

We switched back to cool shirts.  The cool seat did work, it's just not as efficient as the cool shirt.  We started with a single pass tube attached to the outside of the seat cover then had multiple circuits going into manifolds on either side of the seat.  But the shirt cools both front and back and the seat just cools the back.  When it's 100+ you feel the seat but not as much as the shirt.  I just made sure to use longer tubing from the cooler with 90 degree elbow attachments to lessen the chance of someone forgetting to detach and breaking stuff on exit. 

The shirt requires a bit of maintenance as you have to hand wash it (project manager has declined to do it for me) and you need to remember to remove the fittings and let the water in the tubing evaporate.  It's starting to take on that midwestern-working-outside-in-100percent-humidity crunchy/funkyness to it so I can see replacing them every couple of years.

I guess it's just worth it to go through with the shirt then.  What size ID tubing is used on the name brand stuff? I think FAST uses 1/4" ID tube on their shirts. 
And what size Rule pump does cool shirt use for their system?

Team Failken: Formula D-Bags: #14 93 Nissan 240sx
Team Pro-Crash-Duh-Nation: #26 '87 Alfa Romeo Milano

Re: DIY Cool Shirt

gills wrote:

And what size Rule pump does cool shirt use for their system?

Not sure (since I've never seen one), but we are using this pump:
Rule iL200P (link to Amazon)

We had 3 of them (we swap out the entire cooler during a driver change and we have an extra cooler for drivers to hook up to while waiting geared up) and we haven't had a failure yet.  They can occasionally take a while to prime and start pumping, but the flow is more than adequate.

Van

13X losers (or is 14 now?) refusing to learn from our failures.
Organizer's Choice!  Trophy should have a bottle opener on it.