Re: True cost of Lemons?

I am running it very tight, the first race will run us around $4000 including all costs.  This does not include all my free labor, but what else am I going to do, mow the lawn?  My drivers are paying $600 each to run the first race, if the car survives the second should be much less.  Gear and safety equipment costs were the highest, but should only come around every five years or so.

Rich DeFrancisco
Chump Change Racing aka "The Bridesmaids"
1986 BMW 535im
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic … 8418604559

Re: True cost of Lemons?

One of the biggest cost hits comes if you don't have a welder/skills and have to farm out the cage.  That alone added $1000 to our build cost.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Jeff G 78 wrote:

One of the biggest cost hits comes if you don't have a welder/skills and have to farm out the cage.  That alone added $1000 to our build cost.

Amen.  We learned to weld just for this series.  Yes, we ended up dropping a couple of hundred on a Hobart welder - more cash flown away.  But now we can actually fabricate things!  We'd so be up sh!t creek with our front motor mount if we hadn't - as a team - learned to weld.  We spent money to 'save' money and not hire a welder's services.

Just as other posters have said, sweat equity is key.  However, the above is just another example showing how acquiring the tools needed for all of the build components can also set you back.  Some us of, unlike the awe-inspiring Serge, didn't come into this race with complete set-ups.  Or any skills.  Let's just say that the garage (and my brain) is much more crowded since we got involved in this whole Lemons-shebang.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Welding and acquiring any equipment can be a huge money saving point if you're looking to continue competing (or foolishly disregarding the addictive nature of this).  Like Doctawife, I did get a welder and got up to speed for doing a cage.  But, it's no easy task making good welds upside down and around a joint, if you're not up to practicing and grinding out to try again.  You can offset the cost of the welder for what you'd pay someone else, especially if you watch craigslist for a while. 

While I find a few more people to do a new team, I plan on making a tube bender to do the custom DOM bends instead of the ERW kits (it helps to have a brother that's a machinist and will make a die).  Again, it'll cut down the other costs. 

FWIW, we got to Houston for ~$3250 (excluding tools I bought, like the welder).  It helped finding closeout parts or it'd be more.  BUT that was without any real spares.  Aaannd, it didn't take long before the engine was damaged and we were hosed.  Testing before the race is priceless, and that little extra in spares is worth it. 

Hope you have plenty of team help.  That seems to make the experience more positive.

Plain Jane '86 BMW 535i - Current
RIP People's Elbowed Protege - 2010

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Mulry wrote:

I'm pretty much a solo effort as far as build/repair/maintain the car at this point. And it's pretty clear at this point that I'm not much of a wrench, although I do enjoy it and am hopefully getting better (the snapped off rear main seal bolts might testify differently. Helicoil to the rescue!). Everybody else is out of town. So what my crew brings to the table is pretty much fly in on Thursday, hope everything is working, have fun, work on the car when it breaks over the race weekend, then leave.

Join the club. My nearest driver lives 120 miles away, and the furthest 1300. Unfortunately all of the team members who helped initially build the car moved away, but they were dedicated enough that most of them flew into town a couple of weekends ago and we all swarmed on the car and got a bunch of work done. Without their help, it would have taken me 2 weeks to finish alone what we all did in 2 days.

I'm glad our car is in mostly good mechanical shape this time around. We've spent a lot more time making our car look impressive than fixing stuff. As much as I love doing this, and the end result is worth it, the weeks of work wears on you after a while, and the patient but ultimately frustrated girlfriend does too smile

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

We got our car and team to Nelson for just over $3000.  Now we baought a Camaro so the stuff we needed was easy to get on the cheap (Bolt in roll cage, extra rims, etc..)  and I have a great scrounge on my team!  You can tack on a few more thousand if your car is a bit more Lemony...like a Renault or a Simca.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: True cost of Lemons?

If you're worried about cost, buy an existing Lemon.  No cheaper way to do it.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

COST?  Don't concentrate on the COST, think of all the FUN.  Its been worth every penny I have spent and continue to spend.

$4k for just the car is about right for the first event.  The next race is always cheaper!

Fall South 09- 23rd place
Southern Discomfort '10 Magnum PU- 5th place
Spring South '10- 1st...... LOSER!

Re: True cost of Lemons?

ecugrad wrote:

COST?  Don't concentrate on the COST, think of all the FUN.  Its been worth every penny I have spent and continue to spend.

$4k for just the car is about right for the first event.  The next race is always cheaper!

I love to do this... until the damn Southwest Visa bill comes around.  On the plus side, I've gotten quite a few free airline tickets out of Lemons costs.  I use those to fly my friends to put them in a dirndl (as seen here, check out the very attractive chicka in the orange beerwench dress about halfway down: http://jalopnik.com/5413237/gallery/17) and then in the pacebus (seen here: http://jalopnik.com/5393333/pace-bus-on … -go-wrong)

Which brings up another point to consider: costumes are expensive.  Sure, if I had mad sewing skillz I could make them myself.  But I'm much more interested in welding.  Also the time to create a good theme is not small.  So don't forget: once the essentials of the build are done, there's still more to do.  'Cause nobody wants penalty laps that could have been avoided with a better theme or bribe.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

35 (edited by Aidan 2010-05-05 08:39 AM)

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Hello, i am new to this you guys are spending way too much!

Running car $450, build your own cage materials $350, seat + harness + fire extin + kill switch $200, basic maint on car $50,cleveland launcher iron review set of tires $300.  Use a cardboard sign board, borrow a fire suit, buy a helmet, make some costumes, pay your race fees and go racing!  <$1500 for build.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Aidan wrote:

Hello, i am new to this you guys are spending way too much!

Running car $450, build your own cage materials $350, seat + harness + fire extin + kill switch $200, basic maint on car $50, set of tires $300.  Use a cardboard sign board, borrow a fire suit, buy a helmet, make some costumes, pay your race fees and go racing!  <$1500 for build.

I give you about 1 hour on track before something mechanical breaks.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

37

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Nah, Rob, these are the guys who break on the parade lap, eventually get 3 laps in and retires in 95th position.  Someone has to do it, might as well be these guys.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

38 (edited by st_rage 2010-04-30 04:55 AM)

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Aidan wrote:

Hello, i am new to this you guys are spending way too much!

Running car $450, build your own cage materials $350, seat + harness + fire extin + kill switch $200, basic maint on car $50, set of tires $300.  Use a cardboard sign board, borrow a fire suit, buy a helmet, make some costumes, pay your race fees and go racing!  <$1500 for build.

I can tell you're new.  You forgot food, beer, gas for the car, camping supplies, racing brake pads (not really optional for most cars), track day or autoX for testing (we didn't do this and regretted it), gas for tow vehicle....each one of those items can be in the $2-300 range.  I would add a set of backup wheels and tires, but as RobL pointed out you probably won't spend too much time on the track.

And costumes ain't free even if you make them.  We spent over $1000 on theme related expenses.  About half of that was the costumes for 5 guys.  Needless to say we've recycled our them for the next event.  Free costumes = lame costumes = laps.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: True cost of Lemons?

doctawife wrote:
Jeff G 78 wrote:

One of the biggest cost hits comes if you don't have a welder/skills and have to farm out the cage.  That alone added $1000 to our build cost.

Amen.  We learned to weld just for this series.  Yes, we ended up dropping a couple of hundred on a Hobart welder - more cash flown away.  But now we can actually fabricate things!  We'd so be up sh!t creek with our front motor mount if we hadn't - as a team - learned to weld.  We spent money to 'save' money and not hire a welder's services.

+1

I had been welding before this series but nothing to the extent that I have since.  I started with a decent Craftsman flux welder, upgraded to a MIG, and this year upgraded to a TIG.  On our latest build (the Craptation Regurgitation), I fabbed a fuel cell roll cage, a couple of motor mounts, switch panel, touched up our seat and fire extinguisher mounts, and added a couple of bars to the roll cage.

Cheap Chinese junk - but 109.99 for a flux welder. 
http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-flu … 98871.html

I wouldn't trust it weld a cage (.120 steel needs ~120amp) but for smaller jobs you can not beat the price.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

40

Re: True cost of Lemons?

They also forgot about $1,300 for fees for their first race, $300 in race gas, oh is someone towing the car?  Tow gas.  Now, even with their ridiculously low estimates on costs, they are STILL over 3K.  hahahaha

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

41 (edited by Travis E. 2010-04-30 07:48 AM)

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Our Team is expecting to spend $4-5000 on the car and safety equiptment (helmets, suits, shoes gloves...) NOT including Travel or food. We all spend more than that each, doing things that aren't even a 1/4 as awsome as this is going to be.  That is with all work being done by us.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

st_rage I admit you guys had the most awsome costumes and car theme!  The wing.  The flight suits and parachutes.  The first time I got behind you in the race and saw the scarf tied to the b pillar I almost laughed myself off the track.

Our car is a >$1500 build.  We have run 4 races and only had 30 minutes out for mechanical problems (two were 24 hour races).  We use Bosh pads at $25/set (drums in rear).  We have two sets of 15" wheels and run BFG 320 tread wear tires.  We have driven the car to the track twice and it gets ~35MPG on the highway.  Food and entry fees go on top of the $1500.  My point is that you don't have to spend much to race and have fun.

Not all who wander are lost.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

andyshoun,

The point is that the car is not the totality of expenses.  We admittedly go overboard on the theme, but there are lots of expenses to add up.  Our budget for the May race is over $3600 including the entry fees and camping.  This is with us keeping the same theme and doing fairly minimal work to the car (we swapped in a craigslist engine after losing a rod bearing in Feb).   

Admittedly, keeping the car on the track is more about knowhow than $$$, but that knowhow isn't free.  We went through 3 sets of autozone pads in our first race with the civic.  Of course we didn't carry any spares, so each time it was an hour+ of downtime while someone went to Camden for parts.  We also watched several of the heavier cars weld their calipers to the rotors at that race.  That's lots of downtime on something that could have been prevented with some better brakes.  If you're driving a car you know well then you'll know what you need to spend to keep it on the track.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: True cost of Lemons?

NEWBIES are so cute !!

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
Lemons Trophy Truck ShaGuar Baby!

Re: True cost of Lemons?

fabtoys wrote:

NEWBIES are so cute !!

QFT

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: True cost of Lemons?

fabtoys wrote:

NEWBIES are so cute !!

Yeah ... until this happens.

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: True cost of Lemons?

It's become 'just a number' yikes

Our Team entry fee was >3x the cost of the car .....
and then there's the RV
and then there's food
and then there's
and then
and
and
and

it's all smile and cool

Re: True cost of Lemons?

I just ran a quick calculation of how much fuel we'll use for next weekend's race.

1200 miles in the tow rig at probably 10 MPG and $3.25/gal average

17 hours on track at 6 GPH (based on past races and other teams' info) and $3.50/gal.

That's $750 just in fuel! Holy crap, what have I gotten myself into? God I wish this was at Buttonwillow instead!

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

49 (edited by RobL 2010-04-30 11:18 AM)

Re: True cost of Lemons?

Slightly less than you paid for your car, huh?  wink

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

50 (edited by doctawife 2010-05-03 11:01 AM)

Re: True cost of Lemons?

I think the ultimate point of this thread boils down to this: how much are you willing to spend on doing something awesome?  And how do you define fun?  As a DINK (double income no kids) the hubbie and I are willing to spend a fair percentage of our extra cash on Lemons... but we're lazy about searching Craigslist daily for that super-uber-deal.  Other folks (see Brian's My Little Pony Mustang or andyshoun's ride) find fun in making things as inexpensive as possible.

Some costs are unavoidable: entry fees and personal safety gear.  Other than that, you can do whatever you like.  Personally, I like learning new skills, even if it means another cash expenditure.  It can save your race.  Example: this weekend at No Problems, we lost a piece of our interior clutch assembly.  Without our new welding skills and welding kit, we wouldn't have raced at all on Sunday.  With our new welding hi-jinks, we raced a full day.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.