326

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

I really hope you have the time to get it finished.  Is anyone helping you build this?

Which race are you trying to get this done for, NJMP?  We will be there in car #8, Im hoping to see this beast there turning laps.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

327

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

jrbe wrote:

I really hope you have the time to get it finished.  Is anyone helping you build this?

Which race are you trying to get this done for, NJMP?  We will be there in car #8, Im hoping to see this beast there turning laps.

it's pretty much just me building this thing. it would be easier if i did not have a day job smile

This if for gingerman. we may also hit another race with it this summer but i don't expect us to use this car too much before it gets retired (or at least the drive train gets retired)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Gingerman!?!?!  Fantastic!!!  Can't wait to see it.  Now I gotta figure out how to increase the size of our windshield wiper fluid reservoir.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

329 (edited by Marc 2011-03-03 09:24 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Gingerman!?!?!  Fantastic!!!  Can't wait to see it.  Now I gotta figure out how to increase the size of our windshield wiper fluid reservoir.

I really do hope I don't cause chaos on the track with smudged windshields with this thing. but it would be a good idea to be prepared. perhaps fill the fluid reservoir with a degreaser of some kind.

some advance testing with a spray bottle of klotz v-twin oil and different fluids would be helpful.

330

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

I really do hope I don't cause chaos on the track with smudged windshields with this thing..

Don't worry, they won't let you run long if you're causing a moving smoke screen.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

331

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

another day, another bit of progress.

the prop flange was stupidly difficult to cut down. that was some seriously hard steel. but anyways, i cut it down, added a sprocket. modified a sprocket to mount on a bronco II alternator i had. and added the cam timing link.

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0096.jpg

you can kinda see the link here:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0097b.jpg


I also decided to not cut a tooth from the sprocket to use as a crank angle sensor. this motor may spin too slowly for a variable reluctance pickup that i'd have to use on that. i'll be mounting a wheel that I can use a hall effect sensor on right behind the chain. i also plan on using a hall effect sensor for the cam sync signal. this should prevent issues down the line.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Hey, did the engine come with a starter?

333

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Judge Phil wrote:

Hey, did the engine come with a starter?

unfortunately it did not. i'm going to use the starter on the Subaru transmission to turn the engine. this is why i haven't started firing anything up yet, i need the pieces from the machine shop to turn the engine to get the first start.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Wow! That looks like an utter nightmare to setup, but truly an awesome build! smile

Concerning your cam sync idea, have you made sure that your number of chain links can be evenly divided by the number of teeth on your drive sprocket?

Team Fall Guy Stuntman Association - 1989 Ford Escort - Gator-O-Rama Feb 2010

That Looks About Right (TLAR) Motorsports - 1983 Dodge Challenger - In Build

335

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Maxzillian wrote:

Wow! That looks like an utter nightmare to setup, but truly an awesome build! smile

Concerning your cam sync idea, have you made sure that your number of chain links can be evenly divided by the number of teeth on your drive sprocket?

it does not have to be divided. you need twice as many pins in the chain as teeth in the chain. it's a 40tooth sprocket and a 80pin chain.

it won't be so bad to setup. it's easy to tell the static position of the crankshaft without opening the motor.

336 (edited by fifty 2011-03-04 11:30 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0096.jpg

Awesome! How many RPMs are you turning the alternator pulley? have you thought about an idler / derailleur type deal to keep some tension in the chain?

337

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

fifty wrote:

Awesome! How many RPMs are you turning the alternator pulley? have you thought about an idler / derailleur type deal to keep some tension in the chain?

the ratio is 40:11 or 3.64. and the motor will go up to 2000RPMs (maybe not even that high) so the alt max RPM is about 7300RPM. and from what i was told the alt will give full charging voltage (but not full current) around 1800RPMs which is around 500RPM at the crank. i expect it to idle a little lower than that but this should keep everything more than happy/charged.

I don't expect to need an idler, but it would be easy to add if necessary. i do have an adjuster on the alternator, you can see it in the picture

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc, Is the alternator mounted to the engine?
It looks like it's mounted to the vehicle, which will be bad when the engine moves in relation to the chassis.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

339 (edited by Marc 2011-03-04 11:50 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

FJ40Jim wrote:

Marc, Is the alternator mounted to the engine?
It looks like it's mounted to the vehicle, which will be bad when the engine moves in relation to the chassis.

everything is solid mounted to the chassis, engine, transmission and alternator.

this car will be fantastic at removing fillings from teeth.

340

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Im pretty sure the alt is mounted to the chassis but im pretty sure the engine is solid mounted to the chassis too.  I might be wrong though.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

I thought I was nuts for running the CRX with the Quad4 hard mounted.  But it wasn't too bad, actually.  Your low idle might make it a little more .. interesting.

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

342

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

WOO, it's like Christmas here. the Fed-Ex dude dropped off some stuff while i was at work:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0100b.jpg

those are R6 throttle bodies (there's another one on the way) and a pair of custom titanium sprockets.

before someone says that the chain looks small, this should put things in perspective:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0101b.jpg


unfortunately i don't have intake flanges yet so it'll be next week before i can mount the throttle bodies. and i don't have the modified half of the angry hamsters's quick change box yet so i can't mount the sprockets, but i am getting awfully close!

i'm off to the parts store to dig through their inventory and find crank/cam sensors that will work for me.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Titanium!!  Holy crap.

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

344

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Why Titanium?

Nemesis Ridiculii 240SX

345

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Titanium because it's tougher than stainless steel and when you're ordering custom sprockets, the price difference is negligible. those sprockets are going to get a serious thrashing.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

This pretty much summarizes what is going on here!  smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pipTwjwrQYQ

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

347

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

today was quite productive. I connected the throttle and the clutch.

i made an adapter that has a mechanical advantage in it for the clutch. It uses a kia pushrod an MR2 slave cylinder and the 1993 subi cable.


http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0102.jpg

the installed pic is a bit hard to make out, but here it is anyways:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0104.jpg


and the throttle took a bit of thinking, but this is what i came up with:

using the stock throttle cable in a rerouted position i was able to make it almost to the far end of the car. i used that cable and a bit of machining to transfer the motion to a rotation. i then made 5 control arms that will go up and down to the appropriate throttle bodies. all the control rods will be mounted in tension.

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0105.jpg

here's a view from high enough to see it all.

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0106.jpg

That's it for the day!

348

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Looking good!

What is holding the clutch release forces back (in place of a crank and thrust bearings?)

So are the ITB's going to be side by side with some crazy intake plumbing or near the heads with some crazy throttle linkages? 

If the ITB's will be near the heads how about a radial throttle linkage.  A circle plate inline with the crank that twists with the throttle actuation.  Then a rod going to each ITB all stemming out of the center so they all have even pull, linkage, and rod length.  Turnbuckles in the center of the long rods should make syncing the ITBs easier.  Leave the TPS on an ITB with a solid non-adjustable rod so it doesnt throw your tune off if you sync them and forget to not mess with the TPS ITB adjustment.  Only weird parts could be a bearing with an ID big enough to sit centered around whatever hangs off the engine in back or if you cant position all the ITBs X distance from the crank centerline and 72' apart.

Just an idea for you.

Im wanting to do a radial in our car for next year now but my team mates would kill me.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Wow, I'm f'ing worried about setting backlash correctly on a new rear diff and you've got all kinds of rocket surgery handled daily in your shop.  We're not worthy!!!

Speedycop/NSF Racing /Pinewood Dirtbags
'10 Summit, CMP3, Autobahn, '11 CMP1, NJMP, CMP2, Summit, G'man, Stafford, Charlotte, Autobahn, ECR '12 CMP1, NJMP, G'man, NHMS1, Summit, CMP2, NHMS2, ECR, '13 CMP1, ECR, Summit, NJMP, THill, CMP2, MSR, NHMS, Sears '14 Barber, Sears1, ECR, CMP1, NJMP1, BWillow, Sebring, CMP2, THill, Sears2, '15 Sears1, Barber, Ridge, THill, '16 Sears1

350 (edited by Marc 2011-03-06 04:41 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

jrbe wrote:

Looking good!

What is holding the clutch release forces back (in place of a crank and thrust bearings?)

So are the ITB's going to be side by side with some crazy intake plumbing or near the heads with some crazy throttle linkages? 

If the ITB's will be near the heads how about a radial throttle linkage.  A circle plate inline with the crank that twists with the throttle actuation.  Then a rod going to each ITB all stemming out of the center so they all have even pull, linkage, and rod length.  Turnbuckles in the center of the long rods should make syncing the ITBs easier.  Leave the TPS on an ITB with a solid non-adjustable rod so it doesnt throw your tune off if you sync them and forget to not mess with the TPS ITB adjustment.  Only weird parts could be a bearing with an ID big enough to sit centered around whatever hangs off the engine in back or if you cant position all the ITBs X distance from the crank centerline and 72' apart.

Just an idea for you.

Im wanting to do a radial in our car for next year now but my team mates would kill me.

the circular linkage is slick but there aren't enough mounting points on this thing to make it work. the linkage will be vertical going up and down to all throttle bodies at each head. individual return springs will be used just in case one of the links fail the throttle closes.

the clutch's thrust is held back using the angry hamster gearbox.

the budget exemption is very nice and there are nice 300-500HP motors out there. if someone planned it right they could probably manage the coveted IOE & overall winner in the same race.

DC Doug wrote:

Wow, I'm f'ing worried about setting backlash correctly on a new rear diff and you've got all kinds of rocket surgery handled daily in your shop.  We're not worthy!!!

Thanks! if you're worried, set it a bit loose. too tight means you'll build massive heat, a little loose and it'll howl which is fine on a race car.