Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

the budget exemption is very nice and there are nice 300-500HP motors out there. if someone planned it right they could probably manage the coveted IOE & overall winner in the same race.

OK, before anyone else starts building a radial-engined Lemons racer, contact me and Jay about the exemption before you start buying stuff. We need to make sure that your idea is at least somewhat safe before we OK it.

352

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

we have ignition! OK, maybe not, but I have an ignition system.

here's the coil pack bracket:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0107.jpg

and here it is installed with all the custom plug wires made:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0108.jpg
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0109.jpg

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

In four hours, I need to call my doctor. No way the effect this had on me is going away that soon!

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Speedycop wrote:

In four hours, I need to call my doctor. No way the effect this had on me is going away that soon!

No kidding... In the time it took me to change the brakes and do a little wiring and graphics, he puts a freaking airplane engine in an MR2! Makes me want to give up now!

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

355

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Speedycop wrote:

In four hours, I need to call my doctor. No way the effect this had on me is going away that soon!

It took a minute, but I get it !  big_smile

It Ain't My Fault

356

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Thanks guys, it's been a lot of work but seeing the feedback here has been fantastic.

I sat down and made a tally of the todo list as it currently stands. This is more for me than anyone else but I figured some would like to see it so here it is:

1)    throttle bodies
   a.    order 5th throttle body
   b.    get larger injectors (current injectors are 235cc, should be good for about 200HP but I’d like to have more headroom)
   c.    make fuel line feed connectors
   d.    mount on motor (flanges should be back from waterjet in a few days)
   e.    get filters (buy some cheap foamies or something)
2)    exhaust
   a.    flanges should arrive from waterjet in a few days.
   b.    Exhaust pipe is already here, weld it up after the intakes are in place
   c.    Route to avoid everything, pray that it’s quiet enough with strait pipes (this is probably seriously wishfull thinking)
   d.    Paint with high temp paint so it doesn’t turn to rusty crap in a second flat.
3)    Oil reservoir
   a.    Nothing done on this yet. I need to make an approximately 5gal oil reservoir for the frunk.
   b.    Place fins on it or something to cool the oil
4)    Find a fan to move air across the motor.
   a.    LOTS OF AIR!
   b.    This needs to be planned SOON!
5)    Shift linkage
   a.    Order push/pull cables
   b.    Make brackets
6)    Megasquirt
   a.    Crank trigger wheel
   b.    Cam/crank sensor mount (sensor already bought)
   c.    Wiring harness (a whole lot of it)
   d.    The computer is already ordered and should be here within a week.
   e.    Figure out how to tune megasquirt ?
7)    Transfer case
   a.    Make a flange for the angry hamster box to the small sprocket
   b.    Make a flange for the prop-flange to large sprocket
   c.    Wait for new case back half to come from CNC shop.
   d.    Assemble everything
8)    Clutch
   a.    get custom clutch disk to fit 93 spline on ’08 wrx flywheel/pressure plate.
9)    Safety (last 15days)
   a.    Cage
   b.    Seat
   c.    Brake light
   d.    Extinguisher


Over the weeknights this week I hope to achieve the following:
1) Get all the cam/crank wheels/sensors worked out and finished. (this may not be possible since the crank wheel may not arrive till very late into the week)
2) mount throttle bodies & all throttle linkage.
3) make exhaust pipes.

Yeah, I think that’s it for now.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

-Air filters: get some Emgo cheap K&N knockoff cotton/screen media. The first time is spits back through a foam filter it'll set it on fire. And it will spit back.
I speak from years of working on bikes, and if you can come up with a size I'll go through the catalog and get you 5 at cost.

Or, since I've just taken a cruise through ebay, search for Emgo pod filter and go nuts. I think I can match or beat the ebay price, but I'll know for sure monday.

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 144 races and counting.
5/5/24

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

step 6 E will be Not fun..

359

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Check out S&B filters. They are made really well, ISO 5011 and are really cheap.  http://www.sbfilters.com/Store/Universal-Filters  Im not sure they will have the correct size filters on their site.

clutchnet.com is pretty good about one off or oddball clutch stuff.

You could do a cooling fan per cylinder.  Might be a lot of power draw but might beat trying to duct 1 huge fan to 5 cylinders and trying to make sure air distribution is even-ish.

I cant wait to hear this fire up!

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Do you have any idea on the injectors you'd like to have?  Let me know...I may have some that will fit your needs.

Let's make better mistakes tomorrow

361

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

X-args wrote:

-Air filters: get some Emgo cheap K&N knockoff cotton/screen media. The first time is spits back through a foam filter it'll set it on fire. And it will spit back.
I speak from years of working on bikes, and if you can come up with a size I'll go through the catalog and get you 5 at cost.

Or, since I've just taken a cruise through ebay, search for Emgo pod filter and go nuts. I think I can match or beat the ebay price, but I'll know for sure monday.

that would be fantastic. i searched their catalog and i can't really find the right part number, i need a filter that fits a 44mm inlet.


vwdmc16 wrote:

step 6 E will be Not fun..

step 6 should be pretty easy for me. i already have the sensors almost done and i design automotive electronics for a living so wiring and tuning should not be terrible. though I've never tuned megasquirt before.


jrbe wrote:

Check out S&B filters. They are made really well, ISO 5011 and are really cheap.  http://www.sbfilters.com/Store/Universal-Filters  Im not sure they will have the correct size filters on their site.

clutchnet.com is pretty good about one off or oddball clutch stuff.

You could do a cooling fan per cylinder.  Might be a lot of power draw but might beat trying to duct 1 huge fan to 5 cylinders and trying to make sure air distribution is even-ish.

I cant wait to hear this fire up!

i've got a few ideas on cooling, but i do need to get off my butt and do it. plus, anything crank driven has to wait till i know the exact position of the transfercase. That's the main holdup.

as for the clutch, we've got fort wayne clutch in town. they usualy have custom oddball stuff like this right on the shelf or they'll make it in a day.


pastafarian wrote:

Do you have any idea on the injectors you'd like to have?  Let me know...I may have some that will fit your needs.

ideally i'd have something in the 400-500cc range. though i'd take anything that is bigger than what i have now.

here's the catch though. these injectors are small:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/IMG_0110.jpg

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Speedycop wrote:

In four hours, I need to call my doctor. No way the effect this had on me is going away that soon!

.......
.....
.....
...
...
HA!!!  I get it!

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

we have ignition! OK, maybe not, but I have an ignition system.

here's the coil pack bracket:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/Airpl … G_0107.jpg

and here it is installed with all the custom plug wires made:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/Airpl … G_0108.jpg
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/Airpl … G_0109.jpg

Question from one not worthy:
I'm probably forgetting something simple, but why does it appear that there are two spark plugs per cylinder?  What does the second wire run to?

El Capitan de Substandard Racing -  Houston, Tx
2009 Yee Haw! It's Lemons Texas: 1973 Gremlin - Gremwow!
2010 Gator-O-Rama: 1973 Gremlin - Gremlin Express, Lassiez le Crapheaps Roulette - Gremlin - Most Heroic Fix
http://substandardracing.blogspot.com/

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Are you able to mount a fan on the small sprocket? If you can make something spin at ~3-6000RPM, as opposed to 2000, then you MUST build a fan car. Biela makes a 28-inch 4-blade CF prop for under $200 (double it up if you want 8 blades). Make a proper shroud, build a really low skirt around the car, and bring a g-suit.

The props are soft and light enough that blade loss won't kill anyone - any metal shroud should be able to stop a rogue blade or two. Plus, it'll sound way cool.

BTW, what version of MS did you get? The basic one doesn't support more than one coil output (as in, needs a distributor). If yours has 8-channel sequential ignition/injection, then you're good. Otherwise, you need to build a transistorized "distributor" (I made an optical one once, worked OK but then I discovered EDIS). Or get a proper upgrade card.

K Car Stalker

365

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

komododave wrote:

Question from one not worthy:
I'm probably forgetting something simple, but why does it appear that there are two spark plugs per cylinder?  What does the second wire run to?

Yes, there are two plugs per cylinder.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

komododave wrote:

Question from one not worthy:
I'm probably forgetting something simple, but why does it appear that there are two spark plugs per cylinder?  What does the second wire run to?

I think that's the backup ignition, for safety. Originally it had two magneto ignition circuits; if one fails, you can still fly on the second one.

My Stanza uses 2 plugs per cylinder, too, but that's because they couldn't design a combustion chamber worth a damn.

K Car Stalker

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

It's twinspark!  For .. uh ... stratified combust.. uh.  TWINSPARK DAMMIT!

Quad4 CRX - Wartburg 311 - Civic Wagovan - Parnelli Jones Galaxie - LS400 - Lancia MR2 - Boat - Sentra - 56 Ford Victoria
Known Associate of 3pedal Mafia, Speedycop, and the Russians.  Maybe even NSF.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

firegremlin wrote:
komododave wrote:

Question from one not worthy:
I'm probably forgetting something simple, but why does it appear that there are two spark plugs per cylinder?  What does the second wire run to?

I think that's the backup ignition, for safety. Originally it had two magneto ignition circuits; if one fails, you can still fly on the second one.

Common on piston aircraft engines.   When your ignition system dies, you can't just pull over to the side of the road.     hence the redundant system.

Maximum Effort Motorsports - Mid-engine 1979 Chevette - Class C Winner - GP Du Lac Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
New England Long Winter Build Award - 2015
IOE Winner, Loudon Annoying 2011, Judges Choice - Loudon Annoying 2012
Class C & Least Horrible Yank Tank winner - Boston Tow Party & Overhead Cam Bake 2011

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Why not just have a few windshield sprayers set up to throw water at the jugs?  Wouldn't the evaporation work better than the forced air?

I am not sure how much water you would need to hold, maybe WAY TOO MUCH, but it might work.

Ghetto motorsports - Car #555 1980 Mazda RX7 (3x winner of BFE GP / 1x 2nd place of BFE GP...BOO!)
Car #350 78 Chevy Malibu (Least horrible Yank Tank, Heroic Fix) (Gone)
Car # 556 1987 Mazda RX7 (6th place MMC 2013) (1st place Capitol Offense 2013)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

I'm not sure steam added to the smoke and oil emissions will help his black flag count at all....

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

You could collect the steam, run it through a giant intercooler, let it condense into the coolant tank, and... Uh.

I think a bit of mist won't do any harm and will help with temperature control. WRX STI has this stock for the intercooler and they don't throw any steam.

K Car Stalker

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

firegremlin wrote:

You could collect the steam, run it through a giant intercooler, let it condense into the coolant tank, and... Uh.

I think a bit of mist won't do any harm and will help with temperature control. WRX STI has this stock for the intercooler and they don't throw any steam.

I've got a fuzzy logic mister controller that runs of injector pulse width and temp sensors... just the ticket for this smile

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

I'm not sure steam added to the smoke and oil emissions will help his black flag count at all...

No, but if he uses windshield washer fluid instead of straight water it will oil your windshield and clean it at the same time!

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

4)    Find a fan to move air across the motor.
   a.    LOTS OF AIR!
   b.    This needs to be planned SOON!

I saw someone else touch on it but I would second the idea of putting the fan behind the motor and making it a bottom breather and letting it suck air from under the bottom of the car.

It could make some sticktion if you had it all set up right but at the very least it cools the motor and gets rid of negative airflow issues.

Maybe you can have it set up as a full on anti-hovercraft for the second race at ginger. wink

Daniel Sycks

375

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

wvumtnbkr wrote:

Why not just have a few windshield sprayers set up to throw water at the jugs?  Wouldn't the evaporation work better than the forced air?

I am not sure how much water you would need to hold, maybe WAY TOO MUCH, but it might work.

Tried it - doesn't work.

You're going to need a staggering amount of airflow to cool this beast.  Fans ain't gonna do it unless you've got a whole second charging system...we burned out the alternator trying to pull 2x 8" fans, and in the end, not enough cfm.

The best idea we got for the Guzzi 600 was 2x backpack leaf-blowers...one on each cylinder.  First, start the car, then pull-start the cooling system.

Chris

"Chief Idiot" - Italian Stallions Rotary X1/9
Class Win (Bad) / IOE Win (Guzzi Fiat 600) / We Got Screwed / GRM Most from Least