1,176

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Today's progress is a bit slim to describe, but it includes the part i had been putting off for a while. the 3000GT mount.

first i made a 1310-goldwing rear wheel adapter:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0484.jpg
btw, if anyone looks at this and wonders, the pilot is 43mm and the bolt circle is 5 on 80mm. but it seems that getting any information beyond "yes, you can use a car tire on the back of your goldwing" is rather difficult. and what the hell people? why would you put a car tire back there?

next i made the bracket to hold the 3000GT box. this thing was a royal pain in the rear to make. there's nothing on the same plane and then 3 of the 5 mounting bolts interfered with my driveshaft scatter shield.
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0482.jpg
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0483.jpg

i also tried making stubs to fit in the left and right stock motor mount brackets to hold the 3000gt box up but i missed the length dimension by 5mm so i guess I'll be re-making those later this week. the torque directions will be countered nicely by just those two mount locations. you can see on the 2nd image of this post there's a bar going across between both motor mounts.

the driveshaft ended up being so short i think i'll just us a double cardan center yoke as the driveshaft body. without the center bearing it'll adjust on multiple planes instead of just being a pivot.
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/CVHYoke1310.jpg

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Scatter shield? Chicken. tongue

This is really looking good! Excellent work.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Don't ask about the car tire on a motorcycle in a forum. Ever. It will get heated. You might as well ask about what kind of motor oil to use.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

1,179 (edited by Marc 2012-05-14 04:09 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Parkwod60 wrote:

Don't ask about the car tire on a motorcycle in a forum. Ever. It will get heated. You might as well ask about what kind of motor oil to use.

oh, i knew better than to ask. it just seemed to be the only discussion they had about the rear wheel assembly at all. well, that and how to remove it.


Junkyard Dog wrote:

Scatter shield? Chicken. tongue

This is really looking good! Excellent work.

Thanks, it's been a lot of work getting here and i feel really good about this weekend's progress. as for the scatter shield, somehow i doubt that the driveshaft is the only thing in this system that can go. but it's the only thing in this system that can still have power going to it after it breaks. the 5/32ths steel should do a pretty good job of catching that driveshaft. it's only spinning at 1600RPM max and it's not long enough or free enough to really get a good whipping action going on.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

there is a collective of people that think that larger bikes handle better with a square tire in the back, instead of a round tire.

goldwings, bagger harleys, lowered hardtails, and anything else that doesn't have to / can't lean much in turns can get away with a square tire. it's naturally more stable (because it's not round), but it can be crap for high angle leans (which is why it's not suggested on anything that can lean).

yes, it's a ready-made argument in a bag, but it's a legitimate one for a certain segment of the motorcycling population.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

One car tire on motorcycle comment and I will then STFU: in just about every case, the owner will complain about the cost of motorcycle tires and their short lifespan, then launch into a spirited defense of the concept. As in: they found a cheap substitute that doesn't work as well. 'Nuff said.

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

1,182 (edited by Marc 2012-05-14 07:00 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Junkyard Dog wrote:

One car tire on motorcycle comment and I will then STFU: in just about every case, the owner will complain about the cost of motorcycle tires and their short lifespan, then launch into a spirited defense of the concept. As in: they found a cheap substitute that doesn't work as well. 'Nuff said.

yes, please smile STFU about the car tires on motorcycle tires. we've made it this far in this thread without getting too derailed.

just scroll up a bit and look at the awesome.

and why not have more commentary on radials to get this back on track. did everyone know just how bad these things leak? it's pretty much a constant thing. they leak, leak and then leak some more. it does not even make sense where it's coming from, it just leaks forever. i even sealed all the surfaces that could leak when i assembled it and it's still leaking.

not enough to be a concern on the track. it's probably 10 drops a day or so but when it sits there doing nothing for a week at a time i always have a small sticky mess under there to clean, usually with the back of my shirt the first time i crawl under it.

the situation probably won't get any better when i put oil in the goldwing and the 3000GT boxes that are operating at an angle that they weren't designed for.

current todo list:
-make 3000GT box brackets to attach it to the engine mount locations
-make driveshaft
-reroute vents on 3000GT box and on goldwing box.
-fix starter mount and finish welding it.
-seal power transfer assy and fill with fluid. make breather extensions to let gravity drain oil back into the boxes.


-fix tach
-new CHT gauge
-tune it?
-fix rear window on MR2 does anyone have a stock MKII rear window for sale?
-race the heck out of it!

1,183

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

and why not have more commentary on radials to get this back on track. did everyone know just how bad these things leak? it's pretty much a constant thing. they leak, leak and then leak some more. it does not even make sense where it's coming from, it just leaks forever. i even sealed all the surfaces that could leak when i assembled it and it's still leaking.

In Aviation we used to say this about radials- if it ain't leaking from the bottom, you better be adding from the top

Flying Rat Motorsports- Turbo Taxi, RIP

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

if it didn't leak....would it be more likely to hydrolock?

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

1,185

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

psychoboy wrote:

if it didn't leak....would it be more likely to hydrolock?

possibly. but i think you're assuming it's only leaking what ends up in the bore. this thing leaks everywhere!

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

and why not have more commentary on radials to get this back on track. did everyone know just how bad these things leak? it's pretty much a constant thing. they leak, leak and then leak some more. it does not even make sense where it's coming from, it just leaks forever. i even sealed all the surfaces that could leak when i assembled it and it's still leaking.

Radial engines leak.  Old radial engines leak a LOT.  Didn't you say earlier that this thing is 80 years old (or something like that)?

BTW, I'm sure you've already considered this, but how are you going to be feeding oil to the engine?  Some radials (intentionally) burn a lot of oil when running.  Sometimes more than a gallon per hour.

13X losers (or is 14 now?) refusing to learn from our failures.
Organizer's Choice!  Trophy should have a bottle opener on it.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

WHY is this thread NOT in the Epic Builds forum?  hmm

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

1,188

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

stimpyvan wrote:

Radial engines leak.  Old radial engines leak a LOT.  Didn't you say earlier that this thing is 80 years old (or something like that)?

BTW, I'm sure you've already considered this, but how are you going to be feeding oil to the engine?  Some radials (intentionally) burn a lot of oil when running.  Sometimes more than a gallon per hour.

the build date on this one is 1938 if i remember right. the design is 1936 and they stopped making them in 1943 so it's somewhere in there. it's only 74yrs old

the documentation i have says that up to 1.5gal/hr is acceptable. i have a 5 gal dry sump oil tank and I'm bringing lots of spare oil. i expect to have to top it off at every pit stop.


olaaf wrote:

In Aviation we used to say this about radials- if it ain't leaking from the bottom, you better be adding from the top

yes, we've all heard it. but witnessing is just something else.

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

WHY is this thread NOT in the Epic Builds forum?  hmm

because it started as something innocent and likely to fail as opposed to something epic and there were too many people subscribed by the time it took a turn towards epic. heck, this post gets about 200-600view every time i post an update (yeah, there will be disappointed people with this update)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

I've wondered how the engine scavenges oil back from the valve gear. But IIRC you have to grease the rockers every so often, right? I bet the downward pointing cylinders get good and full of oil leaking past the rings.

Hell, you should have mounted it horizontally. Then you could have eliminated one 90 degree drive adapter.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cCYbxxHhP6c/TwBLMYSgpvI/AAAAAAAAAOU/HKx7fxT7Nmo/s1600/hindsight2.jpg

No need to thank me. tongue

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

1,190

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Junkyard Dog wrote:

I've wondered how the engine scavenges oil back from the valve gear. But IIRC you have to grease the rockers every so often, right? I bet the downward pointing cylinders get good and full of oil leaking past the rings.

Hell, you should have mounted it horizontally. Then you could have eliminated one 90 degree drive adapter.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cCYbxxHhP6c/TwBLMYSgpvI/AAAAAAAAAOU/HKx7fxT7Nmo/s1600/hindsight2.jpg

No need to thank me. tongue

i actually considered it. but it affects the return oil scavenging and the splash oiling. i did not want to play with that.

the rockers need greased every 2 hours of runtime.

i haven't had the cylinders get full, but they get a good cup of oil in them, but considering the combustion chambers at TDC are still just shy of 400cc's it's pretty hard to hydro the motor. a cup of oil only brings the compression ratio to 12:1 .

it takes about 5-10 minutes to clear out the bottom cylinders before they start firing well.

1,191

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

It's official. I've entered the June 9th/10th race with this thing.

the judges let me enter solo (probably out of pity) which is good because there's no way this thing is lasting to a 2nd driver.

If it makes it past a full tank of fuel i'll need to rally someone to help me refuel it but i suspect that won't be difficult.

also, my wife and kid will make it smile

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

I'll be there Saturday and can bring my gear if you need help refueling.

I may not stick around much past 2 o'clock as I'm considering going dirt racing that night.  But ... well, I'm sure you can find other helpers should the need arise. smile

A&D: 2011 Autobahn, 2012 Gingerman, 2012 Road America, 2012 Autobahn II, 2013 Gator-O-Rama (True 24!)
Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse Racing
2013 Chubba Cheddar Enduro - Organizer's Choice, 2014 Doing Time in Joliet
http://www.facebook.com/#!/SirJackieSte … urseRacing

1,193

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Racin_G73 wrote:

I'll be there Saturday and can bring my gear if you need help refueling.

I may not stick around much past 2 o'clock as I'm considering going dirt racing that night.  But ... well, I'm sure you can find other helpers should the need arise. smile

i would not worry about it. there will be enough people suited up as it is over there.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Oh great....

I finally get to have my kids come to a race, and they're gonna say, "Dad, why is your car so boring?  THAT car has an 80 year old airplane motor AND it's faster than your little yellow car."

JK... Congrats... Can't wait to see it again.  Hoping to get more than the 10 seconds of footage on the track that I got at Gingerman last year.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

The car is going to be at a race? I may have to fly out to watch just to cheer it on.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

1,196

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

TheEngineer wrote:

The car is going to be at a race? I may have to fly out to watch just to cheer it on.

I'm not sure the 20minutes is worth the flight, but yes, it will be at that race smile

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

i've been wanting to see this car since you started the thread. And watching a Lemons race is always fun.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

1,198

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Oh great....

I finally get to have my kids come to a race, and they're gonna say, "Dad, why is your car so boring?  THAT car has an 80 year old airplane motor AND it's faster than your little yellow car."

JK... Congrats... Can't wait to see it again.  Hoping to get more than the 10 seconds of footage on the track that I got at Gingerman last year.

tell you what, I'll trade you a lap in that little yellow car for a lap in the airplane car if the airplane car gets over 20 laps smile then your kids can think you're cool again smile

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

TheEngineer wrote:

The car is going to be at a race? I may have to fly out to watch just to cheer it on.

I'm thinking the same thing... Youtube doesn't do it justice. I have to experience the raw power in person.
It will be worth the trip even if I only see it taxi.

Anyway, Illinois is nice that time of year, isn't it?

1,200 (edited by therood 2012-05-17 11:41 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

jiggermyster wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

The car is going to be at a race? I may have to fly out to watch just to cheer it on.

I'm thinking the same thing... Youtube doesn't do it justice. I have to experience the raw power in person.
It will be worth the trip even if I only see it taxi.

Anyway, Illinois is nice that time of year, isn't it?

The weather could be:

(A) Hot, muggy, and windless
(B) Thunderstorms and/or tornadoes. The I-80 corridor (including Joliet) seems to get the worst  of it.
(C) Pleasant and mild, possibly with a nice breeze 

And that's about two hours' worth of weather, in that order.

Anyway, I'll be there walking around the paddock and BS'ing with people. Short guy with a beard and glasses carrying a voice recorder and a notebook probably.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com