Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Deal.  Although your lap in our car might have to be on Friday.  (Since if a driver enters our car during the race he gets to drive it for 2+ hours)  And I would be happy to just sit in your monstrosity.  I don't have the guts to be the guy who was driving the car when it ate itself.  smile  Not that I expect that to happen.  smile

Marc wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Oh great....

I finally get to have my kids come to a race, and they're gonna say, "Dad, why is your car so boring?  THAT car has an 80 year old airplane motor AND it's faster than your little yellow car."

JK... Congrats... Can't wait to see it again.  Hoping to get more than the 10 seconds of footage on the track that I got at Gingerman last year.

tell you what, I'll trade you a lap in that little yellow car for a lap in the airplane car if the airplane car gets over 20 laps smile then your kids can think you're cool again smile

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Put up a sign up sheet in your pits. "No guarantees, bribes will get you bumped up the list. I get first stint."

Could spawn a whole new class of Lemons. Build-A-Race-Crew. Only the car and one driver allowed to register, you must attract/sucker other drivers into the hot seat on race day. Winner based on number of drivers to see the track.

1,203

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Deal.  Although your lap in our car might have to be on Friday.  (Since if a driver enters our car during the race he gets to drive it for 2+ hours)  And I would be happy to just sit in your monstrosity.  I don't have the guts to be the guy who was driving the car when it ate itself.  smile  Not that I expect that to happen.  smile

as much as i'd like to say it's going to be indestructable, i doubt it will make the whole weekend. something stupid will break. hopefully it's fixable.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

something stupid will break. hopefully it's fixable.

If you just happen to have a CNC milling machine and lathe in your pit!   smile

I'm wishing you the best of luck, and disappointed that you aren't on the west coast where I could see your creation.   I love round engines and the sound they make!   Hmmm, that reminds me that the big air show is this weekend, but I have to work on the Super Snipe.   Darn.   sad

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

1,205

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

CowDriver wrote:
Marc wrote:

something stupid will break. hopefully it's fixable.

If you just happen to have a CNC milling machine and lathe in your pit!   smile

I'm wishing you the best of luck, and disappointed that you aren't on the west coast where I could see your creation.   I love round engines and the sound they make!   Hmmm, that reminds me that the big air show is this weekend, but I have to work on the Super Snipe.   Darn.   sad

that's a good point. does anyone have a machine shop near the track that i can use in an emergency? it may pay off to know ahead of time who to call smile

I'm used to old-school everything manual equipement so i don't need anything fancy.

1,206

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

oh hell.

i'm depressed.

it seems that i've got 5 reverse gears and one forward gear.

and yes, i did the math, i can only go 28.5mph in the one forward gear.

AAAHHHHHH!

1,207

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Yes but think how fast you can go backwards.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

1,208

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Brett85p wrote:

Yes but think how fast you can go backwards.

oh, this bad boy can go PLAID in reverse!

1,209

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Time to convert to FWD with rear steer.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

1,210

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Wouldn't be the first time?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/Uuq-Azz_Backwards-448x350.jpg

Good luck seeing "forward," I guess.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

1,211

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

therood wrote:

Wouldn't be the first time?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/Uuq-Azz_Backwards-448x350.jpg

Good luck seeing "forward," I guess.

well, since i don't get to be the first one i guess i'll have to fix it smile

i may as well show today's progress. some will have to be scrapped, but some is usefull.

i made the world's shortest driveshaft:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0487.jpg

i think i'm going to redo the lower flange and just weld it on the goldwing flange. it's too short to get bolts on as it is.

then i made the bracket to hold the 3000gt transfer case on:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0485.jpg
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0486.jpg

it fits using the stock motor mount locations:
http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0489.jpg
no reason in particular but it needs to be strong and those were pre-existing. why not.

that's when it hit me. as i was installing the 3000GT box i figured out that this won't work because it's backwards.

so i think the plan is pretty simple at this point. I'll just change the mount and mount the 3000gt box upside down. then poke a new shaft through the bottom of it and everything will be fixed.  so i guess it's only about a day's worth of work to fix.

it's a bit depressing though since i thought i was finally done with all the custom fabrication.

1,212

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Kudos for your fab skills and Spank-like ability to climb every mountain.

You'll overcome the 'reversal' and be ready to make a lot of noise- this is the most epic build I've ever seen...

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 143 races and counting.
2/25/24

1,213

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

"Oh. The whole driveline spins the wrong way. I'll just <do something incomprehensible>"

Why isn't there a film crew involved in this?

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

1,214

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

EyeMWing wrote:

"Oh. The whole driveline spins the wrong way. I'll just <do something incomprehensible>"

Why isn't there a film crew involved in this?

because this weekend's taping would be "Marc's wife goes to work so Marc plays with his kid all day and then works till the wee hours of the night. looking like he's been run over by a truck by the time Monday rolls around" it's not really good television. it's better with just the highlights i post smile

1,215

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:
EyeMWing wrote:

"Oh. The whole driveline spins the wrong way. I'll just <do something incomprehensible>"

Why isn't there a film crew involved in this?

because this weekend's taping would be "Marc's wife goes to work so Marc plays with his kid all day and then works till the wee hours of the night. looking like he's been run over by a truck by the time Monday rolls around" it's not really good television. it's better with just the highlights i post smile

What, haven't you seen The Deadliest Catch?

They'd gloss over the family bit in the first 45 seconds of the episode and get on with the manliiness.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

1,216 (edited by Marc 2012-05-19 12:57 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

it's way too early in the morning to be thinking about this thing, but it won't let me sleep till i figure out the full implementation of the solution and here it is:

-buy a new splined shaft
-buy a new input seal for the 3000gt (it's a common seal so no reason not to use it)
-weld seal diameter bushing and splined shaft on 3000gt gear's opposite side. grind seal diameter to 1.378" (ok, i'll probably cheat and just machine/sand to an acceptable finish -instead of setting up the grinder)
-weld on a small chunk of aluminium to the face of the 3000gt box and machine it to hold a seal. 2.047" bore. maybe i'll be lucky and it'll be thick enough without extra material, but it does not feel like it.
-cut off front plate from mount i made yesterday
-cut entire top plate off of the tube mount
-clean up tube to drop it 3/4" down
-flip plate over and weld it on the tube
-use spacers of the appropriate size to make the box sit at the right location

I'll go shopping for the parts with Sebastian tomorrow and i'll see what i can do tomorrow evening. maybe i can get some sleep now that it's written down.

1,217

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

so where were you guys? why did nobody else catch this?

1,218 (edited by Junkyard Dog 2012-05-19 05:55 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Man, that sucks. It happened to me on a 914 Porsche once, talk about a PITA. My suggestion (and this is how the Porsche was fixed): is it possible to 'flip' the diff in the Subaru box so it spins backwards, i.e. put the ring gear on the other side? That's also how VW transaxles are set up for mid motor installations.

EDIT: Shoulda Googled first. It appears that Subaru pinions are not centered in the case so flipping it is not gonna work. sad There's someone who makes a reversed R&P for a Subie box but we are talking ~$5k. yikes

EDIT TO THE EDIT: Is it possible to turn the drivetrain around, i.e. put the engine in the middle of the car? That might even help with weight distribution. smile

Philosophy of life: old age and treachery will ALWAYS overcome youth, enthusiasm and cash. General smartass know it all beer swilling ne'er do well. Avoid eye contact with this person, best avoided completely. 2008 Animal House Racing CMP 'Most Likely To Leave In An Ambulance' 2009 Blind Rodent Racing CMP 2010 Team Galileo CMP 2011 Roundhouse Kick Racing CMP 2012 Road Kill Grill Racing CMP (x2)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

so where were you guys? why did nobody else catch this?

I always get it confused, leftie loosie righitie forward?

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

so where were you guys? why did nobody else catch this?

I vote for reversing the firing order on the motor.

13X losers (or is 14 now?) refusing to learn from our failures.
Organizer's Choice!  Trophy should have a bottle opener on it.

1,221 (edited by Marc 2012-05-19 10:02 AM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Junkyard Dog wrote:

Man, that sucks. It happened to me on a 914 Porsche once, talk about a PITA. My suggestion (and this is how the Porsche was fixed): is it possible to 'flip' the diff in the Subaru box so it spins backwards, i.e. put the ring gear on the other side? That's also how VW transaxles are set up for mid motor installations.

EDIT: Shoulda Googled first. It appears that Subaru pinions are not centered in the case so flipping it is not gonna work. sad There's someone who makes a reversed R&P for a Subie box but we are talking ~$5k. yikes

EDIT TO THE EDIT: Is it possible to turn the drivetrain around, i.e. put the engine in the middle of the car? That might even help with weight distribution. smile

thanks for looking up the diff flip thing. that would be easy if it worked, the trans is very easy to disassemble if you remember from about 20 pages back.

turning the whole motor assy around would be possible, but it would take longer than the other solution i'm working on. plus there may be issues with driving the trans at full power in reverse. sometimes there are just brass thrust bearings to handle those loads and they heat up over continuous use.

Team Infinniti wrote:
Marc wrote:

so where were you guys? why did nobody else catch this?

I always get it confused, leftie loosie righitie forward?

i have allows drawn all over the drivetrain. this is something i made sure i got right over and over and over and then i messed it up. reverse the direction and multiply by three. i guess i forgot the reverse bit.


stimpyvan wrote:
Marc wrote:

so where were you guys? why did nobody else catch this?

I vote for reversing the firing order on the motor.

i thought about this. i thought about it quite hard and it just would not work. the cam timing would be off and the oil scavenge pump would stop working.



Sebastian was in a great mood this morning so i did get the parts i need for the fabrication tonight. my goal tonight is to at least make the box have an output on the opposite side. if i have extra time i'll work on the new mount also, but don't hold your hopes up on that one.

1,222

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

Marc wrote:

oh hell.

i'm depressed.

it seems that i've got 5 reverse gears and one forward gear.

and yes, i did the math, i can only go 28.5mph in the one forward gear.

AAAHHHHHH!


New theme:  Toad, the brakevan
Make sure you blast the William Tell overture on track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjnQIgALsJY

http://www.ducttapemotorsports.com/
http://www.teamdfl.com
"I can see it now, a pile of nickels and all the glory of being a real race car driver."
Prepping the Red wReck for the 24 Hours of Lemons

1,223 (edited by Marc 2012-05-19 07:27 PM)

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

well, tonight went quite well. i made the 3000gt gearbox go the other way and i figured out a way to vent it:

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0490.jpg

the vent tube thingie is over the shaft on the other side and it's just a press fit where the seal on that side used to be. it should be fairly effective at keeping the oil inside the case. the stock vent was sealed by hammering a ballbearing in it. it's cheap and quick

when put in location on the car you can see that things are close but not 100% right. the driveshaft slip spline needs to be shortened by about 1/2" to get the box to sit at the right angle

http://frankensteinmotorworks.com/AirplaneMR2/phase2/IMG_0491.jpg

problem solved!

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

This should find a way onto the front page of every automotive enthusiast webpage, journal, blog, magazine, throw-away, catalog, flyer....

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Never before has so little power been made from so much displacement!

What could possibly go wrong! smile

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.