Topic: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
A few questions:
1. How do you plumb the return line into the Fuel Cell?
2. What do you do about the fuel pump in the existing tank?
Thanks
- Troy
- Lemons Staff Stalker
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
I've seen ATL and Fuel Safe cells with provisions for a return line. They are the FIA approved cells Tech would like to see.
Non-FIA approved cells come in a few arrangements. Primarily Drag style and circle track style.
Drag style cells and two lines coming from a sump on the lower edge of the cell and a vent on top. I run this set up with carbs that have a return. I draw from on line and return to the other. I have an external fuel pump. We added a sending unit for a foam cell and had to make a metal can for it. I got a deal on the cell from Craigslist but we still spent a decent amount by the time we had it installed.
Circle Track style cells typically have a single pick-up and a vent. So you may have to add a return. We had to do that on another car. Even if you buy a bladder style cell that is NOT FIA approved, you will have to cover the cell if it is within the passenger area.
If you want to make your life easy and tech guys happy, you will blow the dough on an FIA approved cell. I have not seen any with a gas gauge provision which would be nice.
Troy
#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
- JThw8
- Administrator
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
We used a non FIA circle track style can and bladder. You can (carefully) drill these to add a return line and a fuel gauge sender.
As previously mentioned though because they are not FIA certified they must be completely sealed off from the passenger compartment.
http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."
Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Thanks for the replies
I’ve got a question in to Nick right now regarding a steel, poly bladder lined and fully foam filled Cell being ok in a hatch-back car (located nearly where the existing tank is).
We don't need a fuel gauge.
5 2010-07-12 09:45 AM (edited by Troy 2010-07-12 08:02 PM)
- Troy
- Lemons Staff Stalker
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Doug I wrote:
Thanks for the replies
I’ve got a question in to Nick right now regarding a steel, poly bladder lined and fully foam filled Cell being ok in a hatch-back car (located nearly where the existing tank is).
We don't need a fuel gauge.
You will need a steel (edit: metal) shell/cover over any NON-FIA cell in a hatchback.
3.18: Fuel Bulkhead: The fuel-tank area must be totally separated from the driving compartment. For example, if the fuel tank is in the trunk area, any openings between the trunk and the cockpit must be permanently sealed with bolted, riveted, or welded metal panels. OE fuel tanks that are separate from, and located completely below, the trunk floor or rear-cabin floor are acceptable. If the fuel tank can't be completely separated from the cockpit by metal panels, a metal-encased, FIA-certified fuel cell with all related compliant fittings must be used.
Troy
#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
We're checking to see if it's a certified cell. It's the same as ..... but we want to know if it has the paperwork ....
- JThw8
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Doug I wrote:
We're checking to see if it's a certified cell. It's the same as ..... but we want to know if it has the paperwork ....
It will have a big old FIA certification sticker on it if it is. We had one of the "same as" cells but without the certification you will need a fuel bulkhead. I assure you there is no wiggle room on that policy.
http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."
- Cadillac Bob
- Ripened Lemon
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Doug: That's essentially the same type of car as my Marlin, and the same style cell I'm using. Rest assured, you definitely need a metal bulkhead. Anyway, it's just a good idea. Notice the rule says "metal", not "steel"; therefore you can make an aluminum one easily and with minimal weight addition.
Regarding the injection, I just put the GM pump inside the tank as per stock; had to braze a brass fitting onto a piece of steel line to couple the pump outlet to the -10 AN fitting on the tank. The foam in the tank seems to hold the pump in place just fine. I drilled a couple tiny holes for the 2 pump wires, ran the wires through, and sealed around them with a gasoline-resistant sealer. Added a second AN fitting for a return and used a vented cap with a built-in rollover valve, although adding a third fitting with its own vent and valve would have been another option.
If it ain't broken, fix it 'til it is.
Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
No sticker .... so it isn't certified ..... darn.
Sounds like it's going to be a lot of work to fix something that isn't really broken in the first place as the std. tank works just fine right where it is. We were thinking a cell would have been "nice" - but it looks like there are just to many issues.
- TheHeckler
- Effluent
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Tin foil is made out of metal...
El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang
11 2010-07-15 04:59 PM (edited by Doug I 2010-07-15 04:59 PM)
Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Even better - I have some alum. foil faced 3/4" insulation board. It's on polystyrene - so what could possibly go wrong .....
- TheHeckler
- Effluent
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Burning polystyrene causes a dense black smoke (King, 1975) which impairs visibility and may hinder rescue work.. The health effects of smoke particles from polystyrene are not known to the detail while in a comparative study they were assessed to be less harmful than smoke from wood, cork, leather or rubber (Hofmann and Oettel, 1968). The toxicity of polystyrene smoke is most clearly associated with the concomitant CO exposure
Rescue workers love that thick black smoke...
El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang
Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
makes it easy to spot the scene of the crime 
- Mulry
- Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rollah
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Re: Fuel Injection and Fuel Cells
Maybe the thick black smoke from the polystyrene will cancel out the thick black smoke from the burning tires and then there will be no smoke at all, just fire? Sort of like a double negative?
Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67
Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.
Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.