Re: With all this talk of black flags...

RobL wrote:
soldmystang wrote:
Buzz Killington wrote:

nothing kills more than Black Flag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/sevenages/as … lery/1.jpg

forgive my ignorance, but who or what is Black Flag?

You may need to leave. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_(band)

tl;dr - a very influential punk band in the 80s.  There are well used stencils of the band logo that are used to decorate cars that come through the penalty area.

don't remember them.  my first memories of Punk is the Sex Pistols.  Punk didn't get much airplay in BF- NE- PA.  and i even listened to WMMR whenever i could pick up the signal.

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Serj wrote:

lol, you're one to talk rob, that fender tap @ 1:35 looks AWFULLY FAMILIAR, HMMMMM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGalUAClJ9U (5:30 in)  *whistles*

Good Times man, Good Times!

BUSTED.  lol.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

soldmystang wrote:

don't remember them.  my first memories of Punk is the Sex Pistols.  Punk didn't get much airplay in BF- NE- PA.  and i even listened to WMMR whenever i could pick up the signal.

That's your problem right there.  WMMR was/is a commercial station.  You had to listen to college stations to really get the interesting music.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Buzz Killington wrote:

BUSTED.  lol.

I'm not busted - I never deny that I'm a little rough on the track. 

http://schumachertaxiservice.com/vids/c … blaze3.wmv

White helmet/clear visor is all me.

Hell - I even go around and sign my work when I can find it (bumper/taillight): http://ronman.org/pics/Lemons/fall10/img_7943.htm

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

http://consequenceofsound.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/kennedys.jpg

Coming of age in the SF Bay Area, these guys were my favorite punk band back in the day.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Still my favorite punk band.  Everytime I see/hear Jerry Brown (currently running for Gov.), I think about the song California Über Alles.  When I got Rock Band, the first songs I bought were the Dead Kennedys and then proceeded to scare the hell out of my wife as I sung them at full volume.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

So on topic a touch, I would say my only complaint is black flags for situational avoidance (going 4 off to avoid a wreck in front of you), happened to me at stafford (go figure).  At the point I didn't care, and its a situation where the flaggers need to use discretion (IMO).  It almost cost us big time at Nelson last year, where our last driver went off and to a complete stop to avoid a spin in front of him (which was the 2nd or 3rd place car trying to catch up).  Both cars came in, the judges were understanding, but again, the lost laps could have been a killer.

That said, I like the 'fear' imposed by the risk of black flags, it keeps things much smoother then if all of us schmucks were allowed to go out no hold barred.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

RobL wrote:
soldmystang wrote:

don't remember them.  my first memories of Punk is the Sex Pistols.  Punk didn't get much airplay in BF- NE- PA.  and i even listened to WMMR whenever i could pick up the signal.

That's your problem right there.  WMMR was/is a commercial station.  You had to listen to college stations to really get the interesting music.

damn right.

Rowan Radio 89.7 WGLS FTW.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

soldmystang wrote:
Buzz Killington wrote:
ronman wrote:

I find that Raid kills bugs deader than Black Flag.

nothing kills more than Black Flag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/sevenages/as … lery/1.jpg

forgive my ignorance, but who or what is Black Flag?

and is that Mitch Hedberg to the far left?

Wait....you know Hedberg but not Black Flag? I'm hoping you are under 25y/o. That would make me feel better....old, but better.

Justin
Team Cardorks: #901 Amtrack E36 / # 902 Philly E30 / #903 Integra TypeArrr!
Driving something, somewhere.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

rushman wrote:

So on topic a touch, I would say my only complaint is black flags for situational avoidance (going 4 off to avoid a wreck in front of you), happened to me at stafford (go figure).  At the point I didn't care, and its a situation where the flaggers need to use discretion (IMO).  It almost cost us big time at Nelson last year, where our last driver went off and to a complete stop to avoid a spin in front of him (which was the 2nd or 3rd place car trying to catch up).  Both cars came in, the judges were understanding, but again, the lost laps could have been a killer.

That said, I like the 'fear' imposed by the risk of black flags, it keeps things much smoother then if all of us schmucks were allowed to go out no hold barred.

I agree 100%.  I did see the OLPDF Civic go 4-off to avoid a wreck this past weekend and didn't get a BF for it.  I was glad to see they didn't because those guys aren't a bunch of wreckless tards.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

FWIW, on the first green flag lap at ECR in June, going into the turn 11 hairpin, the car right in front of me totally lunched its motor. Oil everywhere -- on the track, in the air, etc. -- in the braking zone. Of course I was in the oil puddle before I could react and coated my tires, leading to an immediate off into the infield literally right in front of the corner workers who saw (and heard) the entire thing. No black flag. They exercise discretion.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

The Lemons Supreme Court operates much like the court system in Kafka's The Trial. Once your car number goes into the system, you're paying the price.

If you went four off to avoid some nimrod spinning out and the corner workers see the situation develop and they decide that you weren't being a nimrod yourself by putting yourself too close to an all-idiot 11-abreast situation, you won't get the dreaded flag. Likewise, sometimes the guys in the tower will compare notes and let us know that the car coming in was an innocent victim, in which case we'll wave that car through the Penalty Box.

If we get two cars in the Box for contact and the driver of Car A admits it was all his/her fault, we'll usually let Car B go right away... and we'll also take it easy on Car A's driver for being refreshingly honest. This does happen, maybe three or four times per race. What also happens— sometimes— is that the driver of Car A will, later on, track down the Car B driver he/she hit to apologize, and then both drivers will show up to let us know. In this case, we'll remove the penalty from Car B's Permanent Record.

38 (edited by trekkor 2010-09-30 11:38 AM)

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Do the judges 'remember' offensive cars from race to race?

I'm hoping we get a clean slate and all previous transgressions are forgiven...


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

trekkor wrote:

Do the judges 'remember' offensive car from race to race?

I'm hoping we get a clean slate and all previous transgressions are forgiven...


KT

Usually, we don't remember. However, we do remember you.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

I can say, proudly, that over the course of four races, I am the only driver on my team with no black flags!



KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

trekkor wrote:

I can say, proudly, that over the course of four races, I am the only driver on my team with no black flags!

That would be 7 races for me with no black flags. smile  I guess that means I'm either really careful, really lucky, or really over due!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Four-off avoiding a wreck, and he got black flagged. Keep an eye on the Pinto wagon coming out of T6 at 10:30.

Link: http://vimeo.com/7810326

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

VKZ24 wrote:

I agree 100%.  I did see the OLPDF Civic go 4-off to avoid a wreck this past weekend and didn't get a BF for it.  I was glad to see they didn't because those guys aren't a bunch of wreckless tards.

I had a couple of situations where I needed to go 2 or 4 off last weekend.  I drove both of the morning shifts and on Saturday I lost count of how many cars spun in front of me close enough that I had to take evasive action.

The only event I got flagged for is the one I deserved: drag racing the alpha down the front straight in the rain and then using a large puddle as my braking zone.

I seem to get flags once every other race or so.  I actually don't know what they look like because when I screw up and know it's my fault I just go straight in.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

oneday wrote:
soldmystang wrote:
Buzz Killington wrote:

nothing kills more than Black Flag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/sevenages/as … lery/1.jpg

forgive my ignorance, but who or what is Black Flag?

and is that Mitch Hedberg to the far left?

Wait....you know Hedberg but not Black Flag? I'm hoping you are under 25y/o. That would make me feel better....old, but better.

25 twice.  smile

Dude until i went to college the only crap that was played on the radio up in the mountains where i grew up was top 40 / pop/ disco.  it was pretty horrible.

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36

45 (edited by jimeditorial 2010-09-30 01:43 PM)

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Judge Phil wrote:

The Lemons Supreme Court operates much like the court system in Kafka's The Trial. Once your car number goes into the system, you're paying the price.

But the penalty box operates like Wall Street: "It wasn't my fault... If it was I had no choice... It was unforseeable/unavoidable... it was actually a brilliant move and I'm insulted that you don't recognize my heroism", etc. etc.

The Wheel of Misfortune, paradoxically, operates by random chance, which is sort of democratic in a way, but Kafka? How about Machiavelli?

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

Kafka, Machiavelli, random chance and Wall Street...that should be enough to tell you that the penalty box is someplace you definitely don't want to be.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

m610 wrote:

Four-off avoiding a wreck, and he got black flagged. Keep an eye on the Pinto wagon coming out of T6 at 10:30.

Link: http://vimeo.com/7810326

I like seeing videos from the faster cars. It's like this WHOLE alternate universe.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

st_rage wrote:

The only event I got flagged for is the one I deserved: drag racing the alpha down the front straight in the rain and then using a large puddle as my braking zone.

Your drag race inspired a strong "oh shit, this isn't gonna end well" feeling among the spectators, me included. I'm glad you managed to avoid taking out the timelapse camera I had taped to the Turn 1 marker (although you did splash mud on the lens and ruined all the subsequent photos for the day).

49 (edited by fairgentleman Z 2010-09-30 07:52 PM)

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

rushman wrote:

It almost cost us big time at Nelson last year, where our last driver went off and to a complete stop to avoid a spin in front of him (which was the 2nd or 3rd place car trying to catch up).

No, I think the story was more like this; Driver saw a sping 200 ft in front of him on inside of turn one.  He slowed as the spinning car backed up across track towards outside.  Instead of cutting off people on the inside he came to a complete stop WHILE REMAINING ON TRACK.  No contact, no wheel off, no aggressive driving to create the situation.  Still black flag.

I believe there wan an incident at Stafford where one of our drivers came to a complete stop to avoid T-boning someone and ended up getting punted.

So I guess we need to stop slowing down for accidents in front of us.

There is only one black flag that I received that has me miffed.  Drivers meeting @ Gingerman, safety vehicles will give you wave by.  Under green I come up on a train of cars 5-6 long, no white flag displayed, but there is a Suburban cruising along at 40 mph, no one was passing.  It was driving WAY off line, eventually it slowed more, SAFETY VEHICLE DROPPED TWO WHEELS AND HIT THE BRAKES TO 10 MPH, so the train passed.  Ended up 5 laps latter I got a black flag, asked for what? "passing under yellow", I was like screw it, can't talk my way out of it so I did the paddock parade and continued on my merry way.  After my stint I asked another driver that got the same penalty, it wasn't until then I realized what the flag was about.  The next day I come up on a tow truck and there are two workers in the rearward facing seats, they are doing 45 ish and I start waving at them to give me a point by, they just give me a dumb look, I got passed by 15 cars while I'm just pacing behind the tow truck waiting for a point by.

I'm not complaining, because I'm sure we've caughten breaks too......

Drive more, type less.

Re: With all this talk of black flags...

It's really frustrating for the driver when you are the unfortunate recipient of someone elses "wait my car has mirrors moment"

It might be a good idea to remind drivers at the drivers meeting to stop wetting themselves and actually look to the inside before they turn in!! Or at least touch on when a car has position!!

Also would it be possible to bring back video evidence to get penalties removed?? 

Because even if you guys in the penalty box don't believe it lots of cars are undeserving.  We've served a penalty for a car that used us as their brakes even though the other car came in an admitted not having brakes. 

BTW I'm not complaining it was definitely my fault

Bug Eyed Blowfish Boysenberry Pie Racing Team Captain
2009 Lemons South Fall: Finished
2010 Lemons South Spring: DNF with 20 minutes to checker
2010 Lemons South Fall: Finished