Excessive contact at Autobahn??? (Page 3 of 6)

I believe this is also why in most sanctioning bodies you can't have any cage members extend beyond  the suspension pickup points ie shock towers-- outside of those is considered crumple zones.

Had that CRX had nerf bars or bull bars at the rear bracing the rear bumper, the occupant would have more likely been hauled away on a back board.

I will say I'd rather see those wide tube bumpers than simple frame rail ends -- While building the Apollo 18 car, I've had visions of frame rails trying to puncture into the driver compartment so I've put extra "door bars" on to help prevent that from happening.

At least when I was out on track, I thought you guys did a good job of holding your line and staying out of trouble. No complaints here.

I was in the #710 red Firebird (with no rear glass). Sunday morning was brutal for us. The car is practically undriveable in the wet, so we very purposefully drove slow and pointed people by. Even then, it was tough to stay in control, but we had no spins, no contact, and no flags on Saturday. Once the track dried we could pick up the pace quite a bit relative to many other cars. It was obvious we were the slowest f-body there in a straight line, but thankfully we had great brakes and pretty good balance. Sunday we were flagged twice. First time was going two wheels off to avoid a car swiping in front of us. We apoogized to the judges and were free to go. Second was contact, not our fault, and were waived through the pits.

Since bingo is my team mate, I tend to disagree with him 99% of the time.  But, he is spot on here.  I also have never been black flagged in the 6 races, more than 17 hours on track.  As mentioned, two of those races a top ten finish (6th place).  One of our team mates did get a black flag, and he said it wasn't his fault...he was hit.  We told him it WAS his fault because in Lemons, you need to prevent being in those situations.  We also told him before going out "DON'T GET A BLACK FLAG".  I've learned in these races, it's never your line, and the other guy is probably going to nail you...putting you both in the penalty box.  So, let him by quickly...get right back on pace, and then let him go nail someone else.

Cars hitting each other under caution is actually pretty rare at Lemons races. We do tell drivers to avoid dynamiting the brakes when they see yellow, but it has little effect. Still, relatively few wrecks under yellow.

Mostly, Lemons cars hit each other because dudes are playing chicken going into the turns, usually with a clueless dude who isn't paying attention added to the mix. From what I hear in the Penalty Box, nobody really hits anyone else out there; Lemons drivers always get hit.

It's TRUE!!!!!

I almost got wiped out by the 100 Saturn in 6 during the wet - he decided to divebomb the corner, couldn't hold it, and drifted across the track into me. Well, almost. I saw him coming and pulled wide. That was scary for me. I was really happy that I could hold it together and get over, but when I hit the gatorback, I thought I was going to shake myself to death!

The flagger did flag the dude, but I never heard from him. It would have been cool if he had apologized. It was about as close as I've gotten for suit-soiling.

This race had some bad flagging the first day, and we've got video proof of at least one very clearly BAD 'passing under yellow' black flag.  After Jay had a powwow with the corner workers Sunday morning, it seemed to me that the flagging had been fixed.  If was almost as if at least some of them had never worked a race before, perhaps they had only done DE days?

I was about 3 or 4 cars behind the CRX, and although I didn't see the wreck, I know we'd been under caution for several laps while they pulled two broken cars off the track that were around turn 3.  After the cars were cleared, they did another 1.5 laps under caution...for no apparent reason, then the wreck happened.  And I wish I knew who had caused the backup, because you can tell in the video there was nearly a 4 or 5 car pileup even before the MR2 hit the CRX.

The wreck happened, and it sucked for all involved, yes, the MR2 driver made a huge mistake, one I bet he will not repeat, or EVER forget.  The CRX guys also seemed to have a REALLY good attitude about it considering they were instantly knocked out of the race for the first day.  Also the MR2 team (I heard) offered to fund and provide people for an all night wrench (and probably two big truck and CRX tug-a-war with straps/chains) session.

We've raced and finished in 7 races, and we've only had car contact once in all previous races.  In one two hour stint, we were ran off the track TWICE and had car contact once....  I'm guessing it was the large number of teams that had no wheel to wheel experience.  Other contributing factors were probably the weather on day one like Phil says, and also a short track.  You could also tell that some of the teams could go without rear view mirrors, because they weren't using them.

All in all I had a blast, and despite a car failure on saturday, we loved the track, met a lot of cool people and thought it was worth the 32 hour drive to and from the track.

From personal experience in the 8 races I have done, the Lemons organizers have done an incredible job of reducing the amount of contact on the track. For those drivers that raced at Altamont and T-Hill in the early years they can attest that Lemons racing has gone a long way.
I was hit more in the last Altamont race than all of our other races combined, to include all of the drivers. This racing series has evolved a long way from its beginnings of MAD MAX nerf bars and reinforcement over the wheels, to where it is today. We too have been knocked off the track, made contact with other cars but I don't feel that it was clearly on purpose in most cases and I give the driver of the other car the benefit of the doubt that it was not intentional. (Although in the moment everyone gets a little mad.) The MR2 in question met all of the rules to qualify it to race in that event.

The Lemons organizers will look at this incident along with many others to determine the direction that will make for a pleasurable event the future. We can all be happy the driver is O.K. Team T.A.R.P. with the the car in question has apologized in every way they can. "Shit happens" we all wish we can take back those mistakes that got our car pulled off the track, and feel bad when we make mistakes that cause other teams problems.

Good luck to all those who race in the future and if I "hit you" I will come apologize and I will expect the same.

I know the TARP bunch are good guys, especially Pat. Personally, I think if one team's negligence costs another team their race car, the team responsible should loan their own race car to the other team for the remainder of the weekend. I dunno if that was offered, but I do respect the willingness to pay for and fix the damage to the best of their abilities then and there. There really is no excuse for a full-course caution wreck that severe. I think that there should be a speed limit enforced during FCY, say, 30 MPH. Kinda hard to total out one or two other cars at that speed, even if you aren't paying attention to the road like you need to be.

Ok, I feel a few things need to be cleared up....

   I was the driver of the CRX that was hit.  We had been under caution for several laps.  There were a handful of slowdowns ect in this time. 

         As u notice on the video, I keep my distance under caution...as there is no need to be up the guys ass in front of you.  This provided me with ample time to slow down when the sudden stop occured.  In the vid it looks as tho I was braking relatively hard, but I can assure you, this was not the case...essentially, the driver of the MR2 should have had more than enough time to see what was taking place, and slow to a stop as well...he obviously didn't...he cost us the rest of the race, a car, and nearly caused me to take out another car as well.

       With that said, I hold no grudge against the TARP Team.  The TEAM did not pull a dumbass move and hit me, 1 negligent driver did.  Said driver mad a humble apology to me after I was checked out by the EMT's.  I wanted nothing more than to wring his neck, tell him how much of an idiot he is, and go about my day.  Instead, I accepted the apology, told him "shit happens" (even tho this should have NEVER happened) and moved on.

       Pat came to our pit and was also very apologetic, and he did offer to "work on the car all night" if need be.  Though no financial assistance was ever offered or implied, so not sure there that got started...

     Irregardless, whats done is done.  We are out a car, another teams car was severely damaged, and the driver who caused the incident was able to walk away with no harm done aside from some sore pride and alot of shame, and probly got to continue driving on Sunday.  Must be nice...anyhow..

       These bumpers, bars, whatever on that car, are bullshit.  Weather in the original body lines or not, things like that are going to get someone killed.  I can understand a small amount of reinforcement, but this is just a bit extreme.  If we had been racing and I had spun causing him to punt me that hard in the drivers side door, I can assure you I would not be here to speak of this incident.

         Being said, weather or not Lemons steps up and changes the rules on these bars, I feel it is our responsibility to help keep each other safe out there, just as much as keeping ones self safe.  These Bars/Bumpers need to go(on any car, not just this one).  If you were in the car to feel the impact, and you seen the damaged caused, you would most certainly understand.

clearly the rules regarding reinforced bumpers need to be changed.  either everyone gets them or no one gets them.  you have here a situation where a light car with much steel in its' nose punted a car without equivalent protection.

this is a driver's error as the cause.  fair enough, shit happens.  but the equipment, a whole different discussion.

to what "racing" benefit is the removal of a CRX's front bumper?  to what "racing" benefit is the installation of a steel brush-bar to the front of a CRX in lieu of the factory bumper?

again, this rule needs to be changed.

There is one good part about the nose bars: they're vertical. The bumper height mismatch is considerable for some of these cars and some have big rear overhang....in the Pontihack Fiero last year I had the distinct feeling that if I rear ended cars like the Size Matters Fury I might end up with the diff in my face...For "pointy" cars. maybe it's just as well that they're a little flat faced. Just my 2c. On the other hand, that threat, plus the strange and threatening "Burning Man" penalty kept me out of the box....

X2. Im glad Matt(ceipherz) got on here and cleared some things up too. If t.a.r.p. had brought up money I would have asked what they had in mind and then just asked them to write me a check for that amount seeing that the car was not fixable and Jay did not really want it back out on the track due to the severe damage.