• From: Chicago
  • Registered: 2014-11-18
  • Posts: 13

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

mackwagon wrote:

That seat looks to be a cheap clone of a Sparco seat. No FIA tags= don't trust it. Sell it to someone for their ricer and buy a real seat. You can find good used seats on Craigslist. Search for Sparco or Corbeau. Check for the FIA tag (go look at the sparco or corbeau page), and make sure you understand what a real FIA sticker looks like. There are clone seats with fake FIA stickers.

cheap safety items won't be tolerated.

Are FIA tags required? The rule for seats seems to just say one-piece and not ABS.

3.F.1.a General Driver's Seat Regs. Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece, purpose-built racing seats with properly located, factory-provided shoulder-harness holes are mandatory. Molded plastic seats of ABS or similar material are not allowed. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be restrained against rearward failure.

That guideline was what we used to pick out a seat to buy. It's made of fiberglass, has holes for a 5-point harness, and is tall enough for our tallest guy. Did we miss something in the rules? We can turn the seat we bought into a desk chair, but that would suck.

  • From: Chicago, IL
  • Registered: 2013-09-02
  • Posts: 169

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

BoB wrote:

I can get you the contact info to the cage builder therood mentioned.  He has been spending a lot of time working on the TV shows chicago fire and chicago pd, which means it will be hard to get a hold of him and it may be a while before he can do it according to filming schedule.  The plus side though is he currently is building a lot of cages for old p71s for that show so I'm sure he knows lots about that platform.  Not sure when the last time he built a cage for Lemons so be sure to give him the current rules just to be safe.  I would suggest having the seat and a harness when  you get it caged so he can fab everything up around that.  He can build the mount to the cage if you don't need to adjust it, or you can mount it with sliders or something  if you need to adjust the seat.  If the seat isn't mounted you may have some issues later with belt angles and cage placement.

He built my cage and I've only got compliments about it, and price wise most people don't believe how little I paid for it, but I mine was the first Lemons cage he did so it has gone up a little since then.

Ed installed the cage in our Rabbit this past spring and it has sailed through tech twice now with compliments from Mark and Dale. We purchased a pre-bent cage from Roll Cage Components with the intention of installing it ourselves as I am a pretty competent welder, in fact Ed asked why I didn't do it when he saw some of my floor pan repair welds and such. When it comes down to it, even if you're good at welding, it doesn't mean you'll be good at installing a roll cage for the first time and it is of supreme importance that you get it right! A couple things if you're planning on having Ed do your cage:

1. He works full time in the F/X Department on Chicago Fire and will likely not be able to do anything til around mid May 2015 as the shooting schedule takes them through the end of April. (Ed and I belong to the same union Local #476 Studio Mechanics so I'm pretty familiar with the schedule of that show)
2. Have your car stripped properly as he mentioned to me there is nothing more annoying than getting a car that still needs a day's worth of work to strip out the carpet and such.
3. Don't buy a pre-bent cage, Ed prefers to do his own bends and cuts and has all of the proper tools and materials at his shop to do so.
4. Ed is beyond professional, he builds crash cages and stunt cars and such for Chicago Fire currently but has also done work on some of the biggest movies to come through Chicago in the last decade.
5. The price he quoted was incredibly reasonable, I pipped my teammates for some extra cash to give him over what he quoted and still felt like we got off cheap.
6. He currently drives a Town Car and definitely knows Fords and likely has a wealth of tips if you ask.

Good luck, and see ya on track next year!
Cheers,
Jim

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  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

ddaygold wrote:
mackwagon wrote:

That seat looks to be a cheap clone of a Sparco seat. No FIA tags= don't trust it. Sell it to someone for their ricer and buy a real seat. You can find good used seats on Craigslist. Search for Sparco or Corbeau. Check for the FIA tag (go look at the sparco or corbeau page), and make sure you understand what a real FIA sticker looks like. There are clone seats with fake FIA stickers.

cheap safety items won't be tolerated.

Are FIA tags required? The rule for seats seems to just say one-piece and not ABS.

3.F.1.a General Driver's Seat Regs. Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece, purpose-built racing seats with properly located, factory-provided shoulder-harness holes are mandatory. Molded plastic seats of ABS or similar material are not allowed. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be restrained against rearward failure.

That guideline was what we used to pick out a seat to buy. It's made of fiberglass, has holes for a 5-point harness, and is tall enough for our tallest guy. Did we miss something in the rules? We can turn the seat we bought into a desk chair, but that would suck.

FIA tags are not required, but some seats are more sketchy than others. Remember it's your life in a crash, safety is nothing to skimp on. John will give you an answer on that seat, but most people look for recognized names for seats. We run a Corbeau FX1 Pro, which does not have an FIA tag, but I've never gotten questioned on it. You can typically find those on CL for decent prices if you look for them. The issue with no name brands is that they can look fine, but you know nothing about how they're made. Fiberglass is one of those things that's easy to make look good on the surface while still being weak when loaded.

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  • From: Life's great in 21158
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 3,361

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

Our first race seat was fiberglass, and extremely sketchy.  So I'm naturally very hesitant about that material.  The seat you bought looks better, and if it meets the letter of the rules and (mostly) the spirit I suspect it would be OK.  However, also keep in mind that installation of the seat is as important as the actual seat being right.  This means enough fasteners so the base doesn't wobble, a brace for the back, seat belts mounted correctly, etc.  If the seat back reclines I believe that's an automatic no-no, but check on that.  One thing that really helps is to have all your drivers roughly the same height, so you don't need to adjust the seat position.  Adjustments just add in more failure points, and are another thing likely to get scrutinized over.  We add a bit of stuffing behind our shortest driver when he gets in the car, that seems to work better. 

We currently run a Kirkey aluminum seat.  We scored it for $40 off the guy who put our cage in, and custom-made a cover for it.  It's not horribly uncomfortable for 2 hours at a time, but them again our suspension is pretty "squishy".

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30 Reply by BoB

  • BoB
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  • From: Elmhurst, IL
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 4,206

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

jimmy.shearer wrote:

2. Have your car stripped properly as he mentioned to me there is nothing more annoying than getting a car that still needs a day's worth of work to strip out the carpet and such.

4. Ed is beyond professional, he builds crash cages and stunt cars and such for Chicago Fire currently but has also done work on some of the biggest movies to come through Chicago in the last decade.

2.  I remember when I originally talked to him he told me that he overcharges to strip the car because he hates doing that, so definitely get it stripped.

4.  Chances are you've seen his work and don't know it, hell you probably didn't even know there was a cage in the car.

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  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2012-03-27
  • Posts: 207

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

BoB wrote:
jimmy.shearer wrote:

2. Have your car stripped properly as he mentioned to me there is nothing more annoying than getting a car that still needs a day's worth of work to strip out the carpet and such.

4. Ed is beyond professional, he builds crash cages and stunt cars and such for Chicago Fire currently but has also done work on some of the biggest movies to come through Chicago in the last decade.

2.  I remember when I originally talked to him he told me that he overcharges to strip the car because he hates doing that, so definitely get it stripped.

4.  Chances are you've seen his work and don't know it, hell you probably didn't even know there was a cage in the car.


Chicago.. Like BATMAN movies... if he can keep a driver ok when a semi flips over end to end I'd be ok with that.

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  • From: Howard Lake, MN
  • Registered: 2010-12-13
  • Posts: 97

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

that seat has a sticker on it that says it passed QC...

that's just as good as an SFI or FIA tag... right?

Nofa Kingway Racing
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2012-06-21
  • Posts: 1,608

Re: Cook County P71 -- With just $500 and a Fraternity

Plenty of teams have passed tech inspection and raced with Corbeau seats, which are not FIA/SFI certified (or at least used to not be... that may have changed). If that thing is solid fiberglass of a very similar design and thickness to the Corbeau FX1 (which it really looks like), then there's a good chance it'll pass Lemons tech. That being said, make absolutely positively sure it will pass before you get to your first race by sending detailed pictures to John Pagel now. It may be hard to find a quality racing seat on Friday night in the middle of nowhere, and losing out on your travel costs and entry fees will suck far more than spending more money on a seat while you still have time.

THAT being said, I have laid hands upon a Corbeau FX1 and honestly found even it to be a little flimsy. Safe enough to get by is one thing, but safe enough to actually give you good protection in the (relatively unlikely) event of a horrific crash is another. Racing is inherently risky, and it's up to you to modulate that risk as much as your wallet and conscience will allow.

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