Topic: The Michelin 25th Hour

Two weeks ago, I was lucky enough to attend the Michelin "25th Hour" event. It was basically a PR event intended to introduce their new top end Pilot Super Sport to the public, and spread the word about how good they are. I got the invite courtesy of my friend and Lemons co-driver who got flown to Dubai to test these tires last year before they were released to the public. Lucky bastage!

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The event was held at California Speedway. The day started off with registration and a briefing session where the staff introduced the tire (and it's many features), all the people involved in hosting the event, and went over the schedule for the day. Michelin claims the PSS has 12% better handling and is twice as long lasting as its nearest competitors - a big claim to make, but we were there to see for ourselves!

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The driving portion of the day was split up into three events. First up was the autocross. A course was set up which included two slaloms and a decreasing radius sweeper. We drove three laps each in two new BMW 328i automatics which were identically set up except one car had the Pilot Super Sports and the other had the Continental Extreme Contact DW, which is Tire Rack's #1 seller. We were told to drive the cars hard, and I first drove the Conti-equipped car. I intentionally understeered around the sweeper and went into the slalom too hot to upset the car. The car felt okay, but it was clear it wanted to push at the limit and didn't respond well to sharp steering inputs mid-turn. Then I hopped in the PSS equipped car. Immediately I could feel the difference. The tires were much more forgiving at the limit and kept the car in line much better. They had more grip left when I intentionally made the car push, and responded much more precisely to sharp inputs. I was seriously impressed, and was not expecting to feel such a dramatic difference on a relatively small course. Afterwards, they pulled up the cars so we could see how the tires looked after being abused. I was in the first run group, and even then you could tell the Conti's tread had rolled over and deformed quite a bit more than the PSS. I've seen photos from the end of the day posted by other drivers, and the Contis were down to the wires whereas the PSS still looked good, which attests to them lasting twice as long.

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Next up was braking. Again, we were in two identical 328is, but this time the PSS was compared to the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric. We did two three 55 MPH hard stops in the dry, and three 45 MPH stops in the wet. The difference in feeling was negligible (especially with ABS giving my right foot a massage every time), but the cars were equipped with a black box that recorded stopping distances, and the PSS stopped about 5 feet shorter in the dry and about a foot shorter in the wet.

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Next was the road course. This time we were put behind the wheel of Lexus IS-Fs equipped with the PSS and Pirelli P-Zero Neros. The infield section of the ALMS course was set up, and we were allowed to get up to about 100 and flog the car as hard as we wanted. First of all, I learned the IS-F does not have adequate head room for my oaf-like stature, but I made do. And when the exhaust opened up, they sound really sweet, even though I chose not to play with the flappy paddle shifters.

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Anyway, I first went out in a PSS equipped car. It felt very composed, with a lot of grip at the limit despite me trying to take the wrong line thanks to my memory of the track from previous track days sending me the wrong way. Again, the tire reacted to quick inputs with little drama, and I think I engaged traction control once in my 3 laps. Very confidence inspiring. Next up was the Pirelli equipped car, and my instructor warned me that the car would feel completely different. Boy, was she right! First corner in, I took it too hot and the car wanted to plow to the outside. I immediately had to slow down and change my driving style. I was constantly having to correct and "fight" the car when driving it in the same manner as I did with the PSS tires. Even in relatively tame parts of the track (the chicane on the back straight comes to mind), the car got upset and lost composure which required me to "drive" the car much more, and the back end got loose forcing the traction control to kick in much more. It seriously felt like a different car. The instructor noted that she thought the suspension was on different settings between the two cars when she went out on track herself, but she verified they were the same. The PSS tires are just that good, and made a good car shine. Very eye opening.

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Our time behind the wheel was over, and it was now time to have the pros (including LeMans and Daytona driver Didier Theys, Kelly Collins, Tania Bourbonna, and Roland Linder) give us hot laps around the track in the "hero cars:" A Ferrari 458 Italia, Nissan GT-R, Audi R8 V10, and Aston Martin V8 Vantage, all shod with PSS tires. We were initially told we'd all get a chance to ride in each of the cars, but due to unknown reasons, this was not the case, and we were all a bit disappointed. Still, I got a few tail out tire smoking laps in the IS-F, and an awesome couple of laps in the GT-R, where I quite enjoyed watching the Gran Turismo inspired G-meter on the dash. And despite my many hours on track, I was completely humbled by my driver and reminded that I am not a real race car driver, heh.

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Admittedly (by myself and Michelin), these tires are on the high end of the price range, and as of now they don't have sizes that I can use. They are geared more towards high end Euro and sports cars. My friend just picked up a set for his BMW 330i and loves them. But if I was in the market for a high performance tire in this spectrum, they'd be a top contender, especially since they wear so much better then their competitors - It's hard to believe they have a 300 tread wear rating! This is partially due to the tire being wound in "Twaron" which is like Kevlar. But the fantastic grip is due to the dual rubber compound - the outer tread block of the tire using the exact same compound as LeMans race cars. Pretty cool that their racing experience is put directly to use in their street tires.

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Overall, it was a fantastic day and I really appreciate Michelin giving me the chance to do this. It was extremely eye opening to see the difference a good set of tires makes on the same car in the same conditions. Nowhere else would I get to experience this, and I never imagined I'd be so impressed. It was even more amazing considering that the competitors they chose are top of the line tires too. It was very smart of them to give enthusiasts like me a chance to really feel and see what the 12% better handling and 2X better tread wear really meant.

Just wanted to share my experience and maybe convince one or two of you to buy these sweet tires http://socalstangs.com/forums/images/smilies/603.gif

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

My big gripe about the Conti DWs is the softish sidewall and poor transition. I am a huge fan of the DWSs as winter tires however and feel they could be a huge advantage to those who will see bad weather.

My big question of course is this.. whats their tread wear rating and is Michelin willing to toss us all a set so we can give them some good feedback?

No? Darn...

Daniel Sycks

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

Agreed, the Contis did feel "squishy" to me.

The PSSs have a tread wear rating of 300, which is hard to believe considering how well they stick.

A few lucky people did get a free set, but alas, not me.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

No 215/50/R16s sad

1967 Volvo 122s IOE and C class winner with the transplanted heart of the 1800
1971 Volvo 1800 IOE winner! Killed by a k wall
1984 Volvo 245  Angela Lansbury *sold
Established 2011

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

Just went to dig up some more info and alas, these tires are in no way Lemons sized or priced which is a pity as I would love to see more options, even at slightly higher prices.

Daniel Sycks

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

i did a similar thing w/ bfg "kick asphalt" tour.

I'd like to see the michilin's compared to my favorite Star Spec, which beat up the previous version pilot sports in a "cheap tire" comparo (the michelins were the benchmark tire)

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

Yeah, their sizing is geared towards high end sports cars, and they don't plan to trickle the PSS down to Lemons friendly sizes. In fact, as of now, they don't have any sizes to fit either of my 17" wheel equipped street cars, but they said more sizes will be coming out soon.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

dsycks wrote:

My big gripe about the Conti DWs is the softish sidewall and poor transition. I am a huge fan of the DWSs as winter tires however and feel they could be a huge advantage to those who will see bad weather.

My big question of course is this.. whats their tread wear rating and is Michelin willing to toss us all a set so we can give them some good feedback?

No? Darn...

That's funny, my biggest gripe about tires is that I have to beat all the Hispanics to the latest 2nd Gen Honda arrivals at the Pull-A-Part to get a (mostly) matching set....

-=Tom

-=HFC Tom

9 (edited by fairgentleman Z 2011-06-08 10:58 AM)

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

What were the tire pressures of each tire?

How is Twaron better than aramid breaker technology used by other tire manufactures?

Drive more, type less.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

fairgentleman Z wrote:

What were the tire pressures of each tire?

I don't recall the exact numbers, but they were set to OEM recommended pressures. Someone else who attended did check the pressures and verified they were the same across both brands.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

I got a chance to go to both the Dubai launch, and the Florida event.  I agree with everything you have said, the tire is really that good.  They really did go out of their way to make sure things were even across the board between all of the tires. 

Twaron is a brand name, but essentially it is the same type as the other brands use.  A big difference is the way that they are using it.  A lot of the other manufacturers are using it for mostly puncture resistance, but Michelin is also using it under tension, wrapped around it the circumference of the tire, to control the way the tire "grows" under load.  It has done a good at moving a lot of the heat from the outside edge, instead moving it more towards the center of the tire.

I got a chance to ride with Didier in a 599 got.  It is stunning to see what someone with that experience can do with a car.  I am not worthy.

Bloomington, IN
We'll bring Beer!  Motorsports
Team Fiery Death! #0 2009 Lamest Day(65th), 2010 American Irony(24th), 2010 Detroit Bull(4th),2012 Capitol Offense (8th) 2012 American Irony (11 th), 2013 Capitol Offense (3rd) 2013 Chubba Chedder (4th, Judge Choice!) Now sadly part of a scrap pile. 
Toothless Racing Deadbeats #110 2011 Summit Point (61st) Currently being rebuilt into the new car!

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

Yeah, I didn't post this image, but it says a lot. They did a lot to disperse the heat evenly. Graphs and diagrams are one thing, but the seeing the Continentals down to the cords on the outer edge vs the Michelins that still looked good definitely illustrated it.

http://www.ltdlx.org/albums/25thHour/Variable_Contact_Patch_2_0_temperature_modeling.sized.png

Contis:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5182/5814568916_5444aeca6f_z.jpg

Michelins
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5038/5814568954_e4b9a93865_z.jpg

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

And these were all cars at stock heights, stock cambers, stock everything.

Bloomington, IN
We'll bring Beer!  Motorsports
Team Fiery Death! #0 2009 Lamest Day(65th), 2010 American Irony(24th), 2010 Detroit Bull(4th),2012 Capitol Offense (8th) 2012 American Irony (11 th), 2013 Capitol Offense (3rd) 2013 Chubba Chedder (4th, Judge Choice!) Now sadly part of a scrap pile. 
Toothless Racing Deadbeats #110 2011 Summit Point (61st) Currently being rebuilt into the new car!

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

davisriley wrote:

Twaron is a brand name, but essentially it is the same type as the other brands use.  A big difference is the way that they are using it.  A lot of the other manufacturers are using it for mostly puncture resistance, but Michelin is also using it under tension, wrapped around it the circumference of the tire, to control the way the tire "grows" under load.

All reputable tire companies apply some sort of breaker (maybe fiberglass, steel, or aramid (Kevlar or other brand name)) in a continuous strand(s) wrapped around the circumference of the tire.  Its primary function has ALWAYS been to control dynamic tire growth.   It started in the 80's as radial tires with very low angles (i.e. 15* to 35*)breakers applied in "sheets", now it has evolved to single strands being applied at almost 0*

I am more than confident that because Kevlar is synonymous with flak and bullet proof jackets that off course it will be marketed as puncture resistance.  But in my opinion it is more marketing than it being more puncture resistant than a similar strand density of a different material.

I would be truly impressed if Michelin applies Twaron under tension.  I am sure by the time the tire is cured it is under tension. 

The impressive thing is that the Michelin performs so well with "normal" tire pressure, and "normal" alignment.  It has taken us a few races playing with alignment and running a "high" tire pressure of 37 cold (45 hot) to get nice even wear.

I still would like to see an independent test though.

Drive more, type less.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

While I'm admittedly being a flag waver for Michelin since I got to do this cool experience for free, they say that the Twaron is applied under pressure, and the 12% better handling and 2X longer life claims were independently tested by TUV and DEKRA automotive.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

If they were available in a size for my Volvo, I would have bought a set today.   What's the matter?   Why don't they make them is sizes for "normal" vehicles?

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

They understand that folks who drive normal cars are not often willing to pay the added sum for a small percentage gain in performance.

Daniel Sycks

Re: The Michelin 25th Hour

dsycks wrote:

They understand that folks who drive normal cars are not often willing to pay the added sum for a small percentage gain in performance.

^This. But they said they will be releasing more 17" sizes later this year.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.