26 (edited by RogueLeader 2011-08-09 11:42 AM)

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

This sounds like a hoot but (theres always a but), I just don't see this as cut and dry as it seems, and may not work so great.

Firstly I see you mentioned Team O'Neill.  I went there for their 2 day rally school (which BTW is worth every penny) and I just don't see them opening their grounds to a bunch of people with no rally training to race.  And after running on their roads I can tell you there is NO margin for error.  You are going to spend more time cleaning up broken cars (and hopefully not broken bodies) at a place like that.  That said those guys are definitely friendly to the Lemons community (I think I may have even convinced them to enter a Lemons race!).

So excluding that, if you did it rallycross style like they did this year at NJMP, that could work.  Just have to manage peoples expectations.  Rally is about 10x harder and more damaging on a car than normal racing.  People will be blowing their budgets to pieces to just finish this race (vs a budget for Lemons).  You're going to have a lot more rollover accidents, and race ending damage at something like this.  Aside from the fact that proper rally driving is hard and unfamiliar to people.  Turning the car with the brakes, completely different lines, the fact that when you turn the wheel the car keeps going straight, etc are all going to throw off people.  I can see this ending in a lot of wrecks and hurt feelings.

I would love to see something like this work out.  But I wouldn't commit to it for another year or two to see how it plays out and how many cars are actually finishing these races.

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Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Sparky Pete wrote:

Also, I want to run an Amazon!! I  have a HUGE box of S.U. carbs & paraphernalia I can contribute to the cause.

After we'd run a few Lemons races with our Amazon, I built an 'SU Carb Toolbox"- one of those big, sewing-type boxes with the top things that fold out at an angle.  In it I had at least 2 of every SU part, many new, or at least good used.  It was like the Noah's Ark of SU parts.  And it came in very handy. 

An Amazon would be perfect for this race.  Tough, simple, and enough power to make it interesting in the turns but not so much to get yourself in trouble.  I have a couple of Amazons that would be ideal for this.

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Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

As I recall Amazons are still very popular in rally in Finland which is a bit rally crazy.

Daniel Sycks

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

I'd say you've all got it right.  The course is going to change and get challenging, people aren't going to know how to drive it, there's going to be a lot of chaos and learning.  Cars will break and be repaired.  Doesn't that sound like a totally good time!?!

We will be doing course maintenance every two hours and between sessions to keep the massive ruts, holes and washboards down to a dull roar.  We'll also be watering the living bejesus out of the course before and during the event to keep the dust cloud down. 

It's not cut and dry.  There will be lessons to learn.  Come join us for the crazy time it will be!  Watch that Rodeocross  video - tell me you don't want to do that!?! ....with less horrible courses and less intentional contact allowed.  What they showed there was way too rough for my taste, but it sure is the right idea!

Team O'neill hasn't gotten back to me after our initial contact.  I'm assuming they're thinking the same thing you are, which is fine - this will only be possible at appropriate venues, and if theirs isn't one then we'll move on to somewhere else.  Suggestions are always welcome!

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

What is this "Rodeocross" video you speak of?!? Sounds like a great way to waste some time this morning...

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31 (edited by sublimate 2011-08-10 10:59 AM)

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Sparky Pete wrote:

What is this "Rodeocross" video you speak of?!? Sounds like a great way to waste some time this morning...

LMGTFY:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWbYwOSPjH8

-Victor

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

OK, After watching the video maybe I am dumb enough to do this.

One thing I may consider before I did a year limit or banned AWD cars in their own class however may be a weight limit.

I would much rather have a Suby blow past me than have a huge car/truck drive through me.

Also, I think BeaveRun has an offroad driving venue. They are cool folks, may want to chat with them about availability.

Daniel Sycks

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

troubleonwheels wrote:

We'll also be watering the living bejesus out of the course before and during the event to keep the dust cloud down

Oooooo, mud too!   smile

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Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Considering what a rallycross track looks like after a few hours of 1 car at a time I'd imagine it will be very difficult to keep the track nice unless there are no big rocks in the area.  Last rallycross i went to a car rolled because it tripped over a big rock that was unearthed from the thrashing.  If you know the area and its clay or rock free it might not be that bad.

I think its a mistake of not allowing AWD too, i'd guess half of the guys interested in this would have an AWD car.  If you keep the straights short you can make it safer/slower.  The speed differential between cars is a bigger deal on dirt, its harder to stop fast.  Its something the drivers will have to be more aware of.  Probably a really good idea to have lots of run off.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

After careful consideration this weekend and some strong coffee this morning, I'm in agreement with the sentiments posted here and elsewhere about loosening the rules.  I look forward to hearing your thoughts, and hope this encourages more of you to come play in the dirt smile  This was posted on Dirt Cheap's forum:

In response to some very sage advice from some of my best advisors (namely Mr. Jim Beam), I am implementing some rule changes in the name of attracting more competitors to these early events and kicking off a successful race. They are:

- Cars will be split into to classes: Dirt Cheap Rally cars (as per the rules) and Overachievers which include $500 AWD cars and all 2WD rally cars that exceed the $500 spending limit.

- Age limit is lifted to 15 years old or older. For 2011 that means anything 1996 or older. (Does not apply to 2WD rally cars)

- Tire selection is widened to any all-season radial with non-aggressive tread. The BFG Radial T/A is absolutely as aggressive as will be allowed. If in doubt, email erik@dirtcheaprally.com and ask for permission to use a certain tire. Applies to all cars, 'real' rally cars included.

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Interesting... I think this will make a difference in how many cars show up.

I still think someone is gonna die however! tongue

Daniel Sycks

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

I like the T/A change - you'll find that that will not be an issue in offroad - they have the weakest sidewall of any tire- a rock will cut them down in a heartbeat or less... I have them only because our car needs the size for gear ratio rollout.
I can't interest team mates however - none of the parties want to build a new car after the event. (I guess they like the current one too much)

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Sparky Pete wrote:
dsycks wrote:

No matter what cars are out there, the damage of running lots of iron with crap suspension over the same transitions from one surface to another and you are going to have some serious potential issues with changing surfaces.

One guy gets out of the car and is used to going X speed where he gets off the tarmac and into the dirt and when he gets back into the car a few hours later he goes the same way into the same section and suddenly speed X is way unsafe and prone to bad things.

"I" kinda thunk that was the whole point of the race. The grey matter above and the sphincter-pucker factor below should kinda regulate your speed and automatically adjust to the constantly changing variables.

If someone comes to the end of the pavement after a several hour time lapse and is unable to proceed with some caution, well then they might want to take up badminton instead.

Also, I want to run an Amazon!! I  have a HUGE box of S.U. carbs & paraphernalia I can contribute to the cause.

How 'bout a 544?   got one here with your name on it!

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Evil Genius wrote:
Sparky Pete wrote:

Also, I want to run an Amazon!! I  have a HUGE box of S.U. carbs & paraphernalia I can contribute to the cause.

How 'bout a 544?   got one here with your name on it!

544 > Amazon!

544 > just about anything on earth!

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Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

doooooo it!

Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

I've never owned a 544, but have owned many Amazons, and I've looked at and under 544's.  544's don't impress me.  The Amazon is leaps and bounds ahead in design.  Yes, it is a tad heavier (about 300 lbs) but the superior suspension design makes up for it.  Of course, both are rugged as hell and held their own in period rallies, so either wouldn't be  a terrible choice.  Aesthetically, I prefer the Amazon, though that's strictly personal preference.  The 544 looks like an oddly proportioned '48 Ford to me.  An Amazon, on the other hand, looks like a perfect scale replica of a '55 Chrysler.

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Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Why am I just now seeing this? I so want in!

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Re: Off-Road Wheel-to-Wheel for our $500 cars!

Its silly and fraught with danger. Of course you do!

Daniel Sycks