1 (edited by kornfeld 2014-05-01 10:03 AM)

Topic: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I'm looking to upgrade from the donut to an actual neck safety device, and I had a few questions.

I searched around and found bits and pieces of info in multiple places, but what I'd like to do is get a complete list of the pros and cons of the different options that are out there. I thought maybe you all could help me compile all of the relevant information about the different options out there so people (like me) can make an informed decision. 

Here are the different options I've found so far.  The name of each device is a link to the manufacturer's website:


Devices that are currently available:



HANS device

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/9a/3/AAAAAkxBj9kAAAAAAJo_Vg.jpg?v=1195977906000

From what I've seen, these usually cost between $600 and $1,000 depending on the model you get.  This system requires a seat belt system with two shoulder belts.  The system works with either 2" or 3" belts.  If you use 3" belts, you'll need to be careful with how you align the belts on the harness so that they are seated evenly.  If you use 2" belts, then everyone who will be driving the car has to use the HANS device, as it helps to distribute the load from the belts over a wide area on your shoulders.  These can have sliding tethers so you can turn your head, and I think all of the newer models come with the sliding tethers.










Simpson R3

http://pitstopusa.com/images/F30552104.jpg

These cost around $650 for the R3 rage, and $1,000 for the R3 (which is made of carbon fiber).   The R3 Rage is no longer in production, but some companies still have them in stock.  As described here, it doesn't rely on the seat belts, so it can work in any car.  It looks like you can get these with sliding tethers at no additional cost so you can turn your head, but I don't know if all of the models have this.

There is a straight model and a contoured model.  The straight model is for seats that have a relatively straight back, and the contoured model is for seats that have a slight bend in them.  This image shows the different types of seats.  The straight R3 is for the 0-10 degree seat; the contoured R3 is for the other two seats.

The yellow straps that go under the helmet are quick release straps.  They disconnect your helmet from the restraint in case you need to get out of the car in a hurry so your helmet isn't restricted in any way.

Instructions are here: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/pdf/R3_I … Manual.pdf







Simpson Hybrid Pro Rage/Hybrid Pro/Hybrid/Hybrid X

http://www.outlawraceparts.com/images/products/hutpr.jpg

From what I've seen, these usually cost between $600 and $1,000+ depending on which model you get.  These devices require a 5 point (or more) seat belt system, as they hook into the main buckle.  You can choose between fixed and sliding tethers so you can turn your head.

The yellow straps that go under the helmet are quick release straps.  They disconnect your helmet from the restraint in case you need to get out of the car in a hurry so your helmet isn't restricted in any way.

A quick description of each model under the Hybrid line:

-Hybrid X:  Maximum protection, minimum range of motion.  It has tethers in the back, on the sides, and in the front.  Mainly used in drag racing.  SFI 38.1 certified.  Most expensive.

-Hybrid: Slightly less stabilization as compared to the hybrid X, but also allows you to look around more.  SFI 38.1 certified, FIA and NACAR approved. Slightly cheaper than the Hybrid X.

-Hybrid Pro: Appears to be about the same stabilization as the Hybrid, but might be a little less stabilizing. Primarily carbon fiber. SFI 38.1 certified.  Slightly cheaper than the Hybrid.

-Hybrid Pro Rage:  Appears to be about the same stabilization as the Hybrid, but might be a little less stabilizing.  Made with a mix of carbon fiber and some regular old plastic.  SFI 38.1 certified.  Several hundred dollars less than the Hybrid Pro.

Full details on each model here: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/head-neck/

Instructions are here: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/pdf/Hybr … Manual.pdf






Isaac

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cnXtZErDv_U/T1ZOU7yzp6I/AAAAAAAABUM/HxCPA-QpD2o/s500/isaac5.jpg

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/018_18.jpg

The Isaac device ranges from $200 up to $3250 depending on model.  The cheap one is the first picture above; the mid-level one is the second picture above.  It relies on little shock absorbers instead of webbing to slow and stop your head.  The company that builds these claims this is an advantage because the shock absorbers allow you to move your head around at the speed it moves while driving, but they'll lock in place if they're pullled on quickly as would happen in an accident.  Webbing tethers allow you to look around as well, but your head will move forward in case of an accident until all of the slack is taken up.  This means your head accelerates forward for a bit, and is the abruptly stopped; whereas the Isaac shock absorbers stop your head before it has a chance to first fly forward.  I don't know if this is a valid advantage/disadvantage or not.

One concern with this design is that it secures you to the car, and doesn't have a quick release.  As far as I know, this is why they aren't certified with SFI or FIA.  Apparently, they aren't that difficult to disconnect, but it is something to be aware of.






NecksGen


http://necksgen.com/images/19.JPG


This looks to be the next version of the DefNder brace, and it looks like it's made by the same individuals, except under a different company name.   Both DefNder and NecksGen have the same business address, and it has the same features as the DefNder.  The only obvious difference I can see is that the part that extends up behind the helmet looks a little shorter.  It is SFI 38.1 approved. It sells for $599, and includes a case and some other gear.

Update July 2013: Necksgen appears to be in legal battles again. From their website:

Until further resolution, NecksGen has been instructed by the US District Court in Atlanta to cease production of the standard three sizes of the NecksGen head and neck restraint. In this legal struggle with HANS, and now Simpson Performance Products, NecksGen has never been found guilty of patent infringement. Unfortunately the biggest loser in their ongoing effort to unfairly control the neckbrace market is the racer.

NecksGen has always prided itself as being an innovator of new design and in giving the racers an affordable option in the head and neck protection marketplace while still focusing on quality and versatility. NecksGen thanks its many loyal supports who value the free market and have supported the company by becoming a NecksGen customer.

NecksGen will continue to be innovative in its design and will work tirelessly to continue its philosophy that puts the racers' needs ahead of the bottom line.


Update 2014:  Looks like they're selling again!











Devices that are either no longer in production, or are only available in one or two places:



Defnder Neck Brace

http://www.hardracing.com/images/defnder2.jpg

These are no longer being produced, but when they were, they wen't for ~$550 new.  They are similar in design to the HANS devices, but they have a few additional features: they include additional straps on the side for lateral stability, and the support that goes up behind the helmet can be adjusted to different angles.

Despite the fact that they are no longer in production, any units that are already out there are still SFI certified.  Side note: many sources say that HANS sued Defnder for patent infringement, and that's why they are no longer producing these. However, the guys that started this company actually were previous employees of Leatt. Leatt sued them for violation of intellectual property rights (in addition to the lawsuit from HANS for patent infringement).  Leatt was awarded $200,000 dollars, as described here:

http://www.leatt-corp.com/stat_archive.htm

I'm not sure how things were settled between Defnder and HANS.





Leatt Moto R


http://www.philsinc.com/images/leattD.jpg

The Leatt Moto R costs ~$700. It's SFI 38.1 approved.  The wings on this device work with standard 3" belts.  This brace looks somewhat similar to the HANS and Defnder devices, but it attaches in a unique way.  It connects to the chin straps on the helmet, as opposed to being screwed into the shell of the helmet.  You can just see the strap in this photo as it goes along this drivers neck.  This makes for an obviously easier initial install and set up (which, ultimately, isn't that big of a deal), but they claim it also allows you to move your head much more freely.  A good video of the device is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d666W3nAzA




Hutchens Device (I couldn't find a manufacturer page for these, so this is just a link to the wikipedia article)

http://www.flamecrusher.com/upload/images/product/d-cell-both_lg.jpg

There are a couple different versions of this, but they aren't very common among the vendors I looked at.  It's a harness that wraps around your body, and doesn't rely on the seat belts.  This article provides more detail on them.




G-Force SRS-1

http://www.advancedfire.com/srs1_index.jpg

http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/products/4297_1.jpg

I only found this for sale in one place.  I only found it because it was referenced in one graph as not rating very well compared to other devices.  More information can be found here.  This device is only approved for use on a few specific G-Force helmets.














Some data:

SFI and FIA are the two main bodies that certify these devices.  This is the link to the full description of the SFI 38.1 certification.


Unfortunately, as described in this article on the politics of the certification stuff, the general public doesn't have access to the original data gathered from any tests that are done.

Therefore, all of the data in this section (and on any website) should probably be taken with a grain of salt, because it will probably only contain the data that a certain manufacturer wants you to see.

Having said that, here are is some data:

Isaac is hosting a bunch of graphs here. These graphs show a few interesting points...one thing that jumps out to me is that HANS devices can actually increase lateral shear loads at the neck to over double what they are at the baseline (at least according to the data Isaac wants us to see).






http://www.genesismotorsports.com/uploads/2/7/8/0/2780903/4744394_orig.jpg?230

According to this graph, the Simpson Hybrid provides better protection than a HANS.  I looked up the article they say the data comes from, and it does exist:

http://papers.sae.org/2006-01-3631/

But, again, who knows if it's biased or not.  I also don't know if those graphs tell the whole story, or if they just cherry picked a few pieces of data from the article.



These graphs came from here:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yARzn4m2aYw/T3It_HsIEsI/AAAAAAAABao/PDFY0lKN1ag/s512/15477765.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FT2thdiJoB0/T3It_CoqU1I/AAAAAAAABas/o7GcGJ0JZxc/s512/Chart_30deg.jpg



The Isaac website has a set of graphs as well.  Here is one:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/TestGraphs/Chart1.GIF

In order to compare this graph to the other graphs I posted, you need to get everything in the same units.  While not exactly the same, these two graphs are fairly close to one another.  For example: the Isaac graphs had a baseline of 1,156 pounds of force for the baseline, while the Simpson graphs had a baseline of 1,256 pounds. So, the values probably aren't exactly accurate (and who knows which graph is right or wrong), but rough comparisons can probably be drawn. 

According to the graphs, the HANS device allowed the test dummy to feel either 320 pounds of force at its neck or 494 pounds at its neck (depending on which graph you trust); the Isaac unit allowed the test dummy to feel 300 pounds of force; while the Simpson Hybrid Pro allowed the test dummy to feel 105 pounds of force.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ifU4eUcE67Y/Ty80J2JB4-I/AAAAAAAAA6w/Xvdxj0VAqIM/s1000/lftchartsSm.jpg
















So...how do I choose?

After doing all of this research, the main point I concluded was that all of these devices work, and they all work well.  There are a few questions you can ask yourself that will help you decide which particular model works best for you:


- Does it need to be SFI rated? If so, any of the devices other than the Isaac will work.

- Do you want to use it only with a racing harness, or do you want to use the device with a 3 point harness as well?  If you only want to use it with a racing harness, any of the devices will work for you.  If you would also like to use it in regular cars with 3 point harnesses, the R3 is the only device that will let you do that.

- Do the models that go down your back make the seat uncomfortable for you? If so, you'll want to go with the NecksGen, HANS, or Isaac.

- Do the models that go over your shoulder hurt your collarbones? If so, you'll want to go with one of the Hybrid models, the R3, or the Isaac.

- Do you want to use the device in cars with different seat back angles?  If so, you'll want to use the Necksgen or the Isaac, or one of the Hybrid models (I think).  The HANS devices come in a variety of angles, but each unit is fixed at one angle so you can't adjust for different seats.  The straight R3 requires a seat with an angle of 0-10 degrees, and the contoured unit works on seats from 0-30 degrees.  I've read that the Hybrid models will work with a variety of seat angles, but I'm not 100% sure on this.  I'm guessing the Hybrid Pro Rage would work because it has the smallest back panel; whereas the Hybrid or the Hybrid X would be the least flexible because it has such a large back....but they might be fine at a variety of angles as well.







Recertification:

If you need to recertify your Simpson gear, here's a site with information: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/sfi-38-1 … tion-fees/

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Did you also look at the Defender?

3 (edited by kornfeld 2012-01-29 03:20 PM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I did...but I found that they aren't in production anymore, and I didn't find anywhere that was still selling them.  According to this page:

http://www.defnderneckbrace.com/faq.html

All of the units that are already out on the market will retain their certification, but no new stuff is being made.

Do you know if they have any significant differences with the HANS devices?  They look pretty similar, but I don't know if they have any pros or cons.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I have an ISAAC, which according to them, beats them all.  But, and it's a big one, it is not sfi certified.  It is very comfortable and easy to deal with, but it does make a lot of noise while driving.  I heard it the first time, and no longer hear it.  As long as jay and co. do not require an sfi certified head and neck, it's not a bad idea, as the kits for additional helmets are pretty cheap, and it is easy to swap between drivers, as the main parts stays with the belt.  But, I would imagine that we are one lawsuit away from having something required, and when it goes to that, it will have to be sfi certified.  Ymmv.  No affiliation other than a very happy customer. http://www.isaacdirect.com/

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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

kornfeld wrote:

-Can anyone confirm which belt width is needed if a certain seat belt system is needed?

Although they make 2" shoulder belts for use with a HANS system, it only requires a little bit of care to get 3" shoulder belts to seat correctly on them.  We run with a HANS and 3" shoulder belts.

Depending on the sanctioning body, using the 2" shoulder belts may require that everyone on the team use a HANS.  I don't recall, offhand, if Lemons is one of the bodies that does have such a requirement.

As I recall, the anchor post kits for the HANS run ca. $80 each for the "quick click" version.  With those, it's pretty easy to get the HANS off and back on when swapping between drivers.

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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

The thing that flips me out about the HANS (aside from the price) is that it is dependent on the belts to retain the system in a crash.

Oddly the device and belts and your body ALL deform in a crash and there is a pretty decent chance that the device will in fact pop out from under one or both belts.

As such I like the idea of a system that does not need the belts to function properly.

Daniel Sycks

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Mr. Wednesday wrote:

Depending on the sanctioning body, using the 2" shoulder belts may require that everyone on the team use a HANS.  I don't recall, offhand, if Lemons is one of the bodies that does have such a requirement.

Yes.  If you have 2" shoulder belts in Lemons, everyone on your team must be using a HANS.  Nobody else on my team is willing to use anything beyond the foam donut, so that was a consideration for me.  While it's true that the R3 doesn't rely on the shoulder belts, there are channels molded into the crossbar that 3" belts fit into, which prevents the device from moving around or the belts sliding around on your shoulders (neither of which should be a problem if you have both of them tight anyway...)

I bought a nice condition used R3 (the old Safety Solutions version) from another racer on these forums last year.  I've worn it for one race so far.  Has an SFI 38.1 sticker, passed tech no problem with a Nov. 06 date code on it.  Maybe I'll send it in next year to get recertified.  It's nice that Simpson is continuing to support these. 

They make a cheaper "Rage" version that's plastic.  I believe the backbone is thicker/bulkier on the Rage in order for it to be as strong as the carbon fiber version.  They make a u-shaped pillow that velcros to your seat, and I'm sure that with the pillow, either version would be fine.  I wore my carbon fiber R3 without a pillow and it was definitely noticeable, but not uncomfortable.  Like the tightness of the harness, I forgot about it once I was out there.  In the heat, the extra airflow to my neck without the foam donut there was something I really appreciated.  The sliding tether doesn't slide very far, so I had to get used to looking with my eyes more than moving my head.  My field of vision wasn't restricted, but my side-to-side range of motion was definitely reduced from just wearing a donut.  That's kind of the point though, right?  Overall, I like it and will continue to use it.

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8 (edited by RogueLeader 2012-01-29 09:47 PM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Just a couple thoughts on this:

- Any fear of a HANS popping out from under the belts is unfounded.  There have been literally thousands of race crashes with a HANS device in place and no cases of this ever happening.  If your harness is properly mounted and tightened this is a non issue, ever.  PS yes Lemons requires that if you use a 2 inch harness everyone has a HANS, but the HANS works fine with 3 inch.

- The thing I don't like about something like the R3 is what I've heard from some people, that its noticeable when strapped in tight, I've had others even say its uncomfortable.  Even if there is some sort of seat pad thats one more thing to remember to position or remove during a driver change.

- a 3 point seatbelt shouldn't even be a consideration in this purchase.  The reason for a HANS is due to a 5 point harness holding your body completely tightly and non moving in the seat while your head and helmet has no connection, therefore causing the possibility of a basal skull fracture in a frontal collision.  3 point seatbelts are different as they have some "give" to them and do not hold your body in the same manner as a 5 point.  In a frontal wreck your body swings forward with your head, preventing this type of injury (hence the airbag was created as well). 

- I hate to sound like a commercial, but the $595 HANS Sport is a proven effective and comfortable device.  I ran one all season last year, its padded in the shoulders,  you don't even know its there once you're strapped in.  And you know it works.

Just my 2 cents...

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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

RogueLeader wrote:

Just a couple thoughts on this:

- Any fear of a HANS popping out from under the belts is unfounded.  There have been literally thousands of race crashes with a HANS device in place and no cases of this ever happening.

- I hate to sound like a commercial, but the $595 HANS Sport is a proven effective and comfortable device.

Well, I have seen testing video of them failing and have also heard people voice the same concern. Maybe it was folks who saw the same video? As for your assertion that they have never failed once in thousands of crashes... where do you get that from?

In addition... Comfortable on you does not mean they are ideal for someone else.

Daniel Sycks

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

To throw in some anecdotal info on the HANS, USAC mandated them for midgets and sprints a few years ago.  They flip a lot.  The incidence of broken shoulders and neck injuries went up significantly.  USAC dropped the requirement last year.  It appears that while they are very effective in a frontal impact, they could be somewhat harmful in a flip.  The people that ran the device that didn't have the hard over the shoulder piece captured by the belts seemed to fair better.

While perhaps not pertinent to what we're doing, I thought it worthwhile to throw it out there.

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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Wow, excellent responses so far.  Thanks everyone.


davisriley wrote:

I have an ISAAC, which according to them, beats them all.  http://www.isaacdirect.com/

This is a cool design, and one that I didn't find while searching.  If you need to get out of the car in a hurry, does it automatically detach somehow?


Mr. Wednesday wrote:

Although they make 2" shoulder belts for use with a HANS system, it only requires a little bit of care to get 3" shoulder belts to seat correctly on them.  We run with a HANS and 3" shoulder belts.

Depending on the sanctioning body, using the 2" shoulder belts may require that everyone on the team use a HANS.

obsolete wrote:

Yes.  If you have 2" shoulder belts in Lemons, everyone on your team must be using a HANS.

Thanks.  I updated the original post with this info. 



RogueLeader wrote:

- a 3 point seatbelt shouldn't even be a consideration in this purchase.  The reason for a HANS is due to a 5 point harness holding your body completely tightly and non moving in the seat while your head and helmet has no connection, therefore causing the possibility of a basal skull fracture in a frontal collision.

This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of.  I was thinking that this system would be good in case I ever took my personal car (or some other street car) out for a track day, because a system like this could still reduce the chances of getting whiplash or something similar.  Would the R3 not really be of any value in a situation like this?

cheseroo wrote:

To throw in some anecdotal info on the HANS, USAC mandated them for midgets and sprints a few years ago.  They flip a lot.  The incidence of broken shoulders and neck injuries went up significantly.  USAC dropped the requirement last year.  It appears that while they are very effective in a frontal impact, they could be somewhat harmful in a flip.  The people that ran the device that didn't have the hard over the shoulder piece captured by the belts seemed to fair better.

While perhaps not pertinent to what we're doing, I thought it worthwhile to throw it out there.

This is very interesting, and I definitely didn't find anything about this while I was initially searching.  Thanks for posting it. After a quick look for more info, I found this thread (which is just another forum with a bunch of yahoos, so believe what you will):

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47856

There seemed to be some debate about whether or not the HANS devices actually affect the likelihood of suffering shoulder injuries.  Some people were saying that it's hard to believe that a HANS could increase the chance of injury seeing as it's only transmitting the load of the seat belt that's there anyway, and is ultimately providing more padding.  However, if the HANS was loaded at an angle at all, and an edge of it was able to press down on you, then that would be another story.  Do you know of any more reputable information about this?

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

A cool video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsmOadX_njQ

When they show how to put the HANS device on in this video, they show a shoulder belt that is 3" wide that has a 2" wide belt attached to it.  So you put on the 3 inch belt, and it gets snugged down, and the HANS goes in between that belt and the smaller belt.  The smaller belt is then snugged down onto the larger.  I imagine this is available to us amateurs, as well.

13 (edited by kornfeld 2012-01-30 12:38 AM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I updated the original post to add the Isaac device, and a bunch of data from the Isaac website.  Here is a ton of data:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPa … raphs.html

One interesting point (which I mentioned above), is that some of the harnesses actually increase loads on the neck as compared to baseline in some of the tets.  An example is on the lateral shear data...the HANS device caused the dummy to experience more than twice the force on the neck, compared to the baseline number.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

And now for a fourth response to my own thread.....

There are videos at the bottom of this page:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPa … sting.html

Watch the Delphi Sled, slow motion video.  Do those belts seem insanely loose?  The whole HANS device pops out.  I'm thinking that if that's how the data was collected for the graphs they have posted, the data is questionable at best.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

The belts look loose because thats what happens in a crash.

Your body, the belts and the device are subjected to very high forces in a very short span of time.

This is why folks want to try and break your collar bones with the belts to minimize the amount of deformation when bad things happen.

In a major accident your body will turn into taffy and try to escape its own skin... that video is NOT that outlandish.

Daniel Sycks

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

dsycks wrote:

The belts look loose because thats what happens in a crash.

Your body, the belts and the device are subjected to very high forces in a very short span of time.

This is why folks want to try and break your collar bones with the belts to minimize the amount of deformation when bad things happen.

In a major accident your body will turn into taffy and try to escape its own skin... that video is NOT that outlandish.

True, but those belts appear loose before the sled ever moves.  Stop the video before the sled moves and look at the belts.

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17 (edited by kornfeld 2012-01-30 09:55 AM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Wow.  I looked at a bunch of videos this morning, and based on those, I think you might be right.  That's crazy...it might just be the angle, but it looks to me like the dummy scoots forward nearly a foot from the seat back.  I always figured you were pretty well planted. Scary.

Having said that: are the shoulder belts mounted too high in that video?  I guess it's hard to tell from the camera angle, but should they be mounted lower?  Would that help secure the device a little better?

The reason I ask is this:

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/sc.5/category.22/.f

Do some shoulder belts slip off the HANS Device?

No. Properly mounted belts do not slip off the device.
If your shoulder belts will not stay securely on the device chances are that you do not have the belt mounts properly located in your chassis.

<snip>

In over 3600 crashes involving HANS Device use as inspected by NASCAR there was not even one concern about belt retention or slippage.

Obviously, that's a quote from the manufacturer, so it's to be taken with a grain of salt...but it does seem like they're very confident that they don't slip out.  Yet the video in the link very clearly shows them slipping out.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

the one I really like, never made it to market: http://www.leatt-brace.com/

seems that Hans sued everybody else out of the way.  I am not a Hans fan because all it does is protect front impact.

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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I figure I'll add this here:

http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=82

That company has a rent-to-own program for the Simpson devices.  Looks like it could be a good way to try a few different models before choosing.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

the one I really like, never made it to market: http://www.leatt-brace.com/

seems that Hans sued everybody else out of the way.  I am not a Hans fan because all it does is protect front impact.

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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I liked the Leatt as well.

Daniel Sycks

22 (edited by RogueLeader 2012-01-30 11:32 AM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

dsycks wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Just a couple thoughts on this:

- Any fear of a HANS popping out from under the belts is unfounded.  There have been literally thousands of race crashes with a HANS device in place and no cases of this ever happening.

- I hate to sound like a commercial, but the $595 HANS Sport is a proven effective and comfortable device.

Well, I have seen testing video of them failing and have also heard people voice the same concern. Maybe it was folks who saw the same video? As for your assertion that they have never failed once in thousands of crashes... where do you get that from?

In addition... Comfortable on you does not mean they are ideal for someone else.

TBH I cannot prove my assertion other than the racing community is small.  Had a HANS failed like that in real life and not on a test by another company we would have heard about it.  Just like that story of the guy who burnt his face because he didn't have a balaclava at the honda challenge, this stuff gets around fast. 

Looking at the pics and video on the ISSAC site, I don't agree with their results.  The dummies belts are NOT tight enough at all.  If this was really an issue, we would have heard about it by now.

kornfeld wrote:

This is very interesting, and I definitely didn't find anything about this while I was initially searching.  Thanks for posting it. After a quick look for more info, I found this thread (which is just another forum with a bunch of yahoos, so believe what you will):

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47856

There seemed to be some debate about whether or not the HANS devices actually affect the likelihood of suffering shoulder injuries.  Some people were saying that it's hard to believe that a HANS could increase the chance of injury seeing as it's only transmitting the load of the seat belt that's there anyway, and is ultimately providing more padding.  However, if the HANS was loaded at an angle at all, and an edge of it was able to press down on you, then that would be another story.  Do you know of any more reputable information about this?

I will agree on the possibility of breaking collar bones.  I know when I am strapped in tight I can feel pressure on them, and I would imagine with a hard enough impact it could definitely break a collar bone.  Honestly if thats the only detriment to wearing it, I will let my collar bones take one for the team.

kornfeld wrote:

This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of.  I was thinking that this system would be good in case I ever took my personal car (or some other street car) out for a track day, because a system like this could still reduce the chances of getting whiplash or something similar.  Would the R3 not really be of any value in a situation like this?

Considering your body still whip forward I am not sure it will help much, maybe somewhat but I did a bit of research on whiplash.  According to what I can find whiplash is caused only in rear-end accidents.  Of course a rear impact is always possible on a track situation but the good thing would be if your car managed to turn around it would have at least shed some speed by the time of impact. 

Now this is just my opinion and I am NOT a doctor so I could be reading this information wrong, but based on what I see its the hyper extension of your back on the initial impact that causes whiplash, which this brace isn't made to protect against.  That said, theres nothing to say it wouldn't help having your helmet tethered downward which it would do.

Basically I wouldn't base my purchase decision on this, because I don't think theres any conclusive data on it.  Unless someone else knows of some?

Finally your street car still does have its airbag (even though airbags and helmets aren't the best idea as well) and since you are not strapped in tight as with a 5 point you still have the benefits of that system.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
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Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Here's an up close shot of the Hybrid Pro:

http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/lfttech/hybrid_pro_lg.jpg

I like that it's got straps going fronty-backy and sidey-sidey.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

kornfeld wrote:

Here's an up close shot of the Hybrid Pro:


I like that it's got straps going fronty-backy and sidey-sidey.

That looks like a solid setup.  My main gripe with these things is I don't like anything between me and the seat (except my suit lol).  Maybe if I tried it I'd like it, but I feel like I wouldn't, JMO. 

Also those side tethers seem like they will limit some head movement which may make looking around a pain.  I see they can be adjusted, but if adjusted too much then you lose the benefit, its a tradeoff.  I don't know that side impact type head/neck injuries are common enough to warrant it.  Seems like an answer to a question nobody asked.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
Click here to "Like" us on Facebook   Click here for our Youtube Videos
Lifetime Achievement (of hopelessness) Award Winners

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

RogueLeader wrote:

Also those side tethers seem like they will limit some head movement which may make looking around a pain.  I see they can be adjusted, but if adjusted too much then you lose the benefit, its a tradeoff.

True.  I might try that rent-to-own thing and see how these feel.