Topic: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

I was cleaning up the garage today and found a spare CV axle that I ordered online over a year ago, and when it showed up, it was the wrong part.  I was either too busy or lazy to return it, but now I need a new inner CV joint and thought this axle might be a donor.  Of course, it was useless for that too, but when I moved the inner CV joint in my hand, I could actually hear and feel grit crunching around inside!  That ain't right...

I've used A1 Cardone axles on other cars, but I haven't kept any around long enough to find out their longevity.  Has anyone else had an experience like this?  I'm disturbed.

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Reman axles are hit and miss . No way to rebuild right for the prices they are asking most are just rebooted and sent out.Thanks cheap chinese stuff

Duck Die nasty Button turibble 13  60 somthinish  Snowballs Chance in Hell 85 MR2
The Skankaway Anti-Toe-Fungal 500  16th  WOOHOO
Arsesweat apaoooza 2011  90th Arsesweat 2012 36th
Sears pointless 2011 47th 2012 118th

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Not a big cardone fan here, no reason more then how cheap some of their stuff seems.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

For some reason, I instinctively avoid A1 Cardone and buy whatever no-name brand costs a few bucks more on Rockauto (usually Dorman). That said, the Crown Royal Victoria has a cheaty-looking reman Cardone water pump. Rebuild on that SEEMS good, for now.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Like others have said, remain axles seem to be a crap shoot.

A lot of places carry new axles now for little more than the remans.

Kind of a side note an axles in general. The boots start cracking in about 2 years or less. Many years ago, I replaced the oem boots on the oem shafts of my 90 Maxima because they were already out and had small cracks. At that point the car was around 8 years old. Within a couple of years I was doing the same thing. I replaced the boots on those axles 2 or 3 times and finally said next time it is getting new shafts.

Once I went to shaft replacements, I experienced crap joints right out of the box. The car now has new joints with very few miles and the boots failed in less than 2 years. I don't know what is it, our climate, changes on rubber formulas or what but rubber boots just seem to disintegrate very fast now.

Joints are pretty cheap now and lifetime warrantied but synthetic fluid to help the old synchros in the transmission isn't so cheap. So free replace axles cost about $50 to change due the fluid cost.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

I had ball-joint boot problems on my RX-7 until I quit buying cheap and bought Mazda ball-joints. It's cheap rubber, plain and simple.

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Early last year our axle problem in the van was so severe that we'd charge each driver an axle fee so that we'd have four or five spares at the event.

...turns out that a K-based minivan lowered 4" with almost 3 degrees of negative camber is a little rough on the driver side joint.

We have the problem under control and learned the following:

1) Many rebuilds use a stamped steel cup for retaining the tripod tracks. They *will* deform over time and the joint loosens.

2) Many rebuilds or new half-shafts with new shafts used a *longer* than stock shaft to "compensate for worn motor mounts". Well, with our modifications, these longer shafts were bottoming out and breaking the springs.

3) Good quality synthetic grease is critical. The more angle you run, the more distance the bearings travel in the track, which means more friction. Once you reach the melting point of your cheap grease, it is all over.

4) Vent your boots... let the excess pressure out. We used small brass tubing clamped under the small end of the boot to allow venting. It doesn't spit grease.

We now only use OE junkyard parts that we rebuild/service/assemble ourselves. That seems to have gotten the problem under control.

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Thanks for the advice.  I think I may start buying junkyard axles and just clean/regrease/reboot them from now on.  It costs the same or less compared to a Cardone reman, and at least I know there won't be sand in it when I'm done.

Lorin--is your van a 5-speed?  Does it have tripod style inner CV joints?  All of the GM 5-speed axles for our car use ball & cage CVs inner and outer, but the automatic axles use tripod inners.  We used a tripod inner joint to rebuild one of our axles at the track last race, because it was all we could come up with, and it worked fine the next day, but I'm wondering why GM made the axles different.

I've seen that problem with aftermarket axles being slightly too long on Subarus.  The axle will transfer a lot of vibration to the body if it's too long.

Got any recommendations on a good quality synthetic grease?  Redline?

I've never heard of venting CV joints before.  Do they actually build significant pressure?

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

It is a 5-speed, yeah. It has tripod inners and ball & cage outers. Lucky for us, all mopar gen two vans use the same length axles, no matter what engine or transmission is in them.

Redline makes a good grease, which is what we use, and there are a few out there. The offroad racing people are experts on good grease, because they run crazy angle CVs at high-speeds all the time. Even Valvoline makes a synthetic grease for a reasonable price. Some are too exotic for Lemons budgets, but the Redline and whatnot are in the range.

We got the venting idea from a guy that builds Formula Zetec cars... and some google work showed that some others have done it as well. I've also seen people use string as an expansion limiter to keep the boots from expanding to the point of contacting something nearby.

Google venting/vented CV boot and you'll see some pictures.

For one credible source, see the bottom of this Turner Motorsports document:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/d … 628CVJ.pdf

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

I think I may start buying junkyard axles and just clean/regrease/reboot them from now on.  It costs the same or less compared to a Cardone reman, and at least I know there won't be sand in it when I'm done.

When I was a Nissan technician intern I asked about cleaning the old grease out of a CV when replacing a cracked boot. The technician told me "No, just re-boot them and send them out the door. If you replace the grease they'll start clicking. Feel free to shoot a little more grease in there, but never wash out the old grease." YMMV, especially as this ain't street driving.

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Used OE that have been disassembled, cleaned, and re-greased with good grease will work much better than crap reground CV's one get's at he auto parts store.

We run 3 times the stock HP through a welded diff. with at least 4 times the tire grip, and rear wheel drive, on the Metro-Gnome using junkyard Geo Metro CV's and they work just fine.  It's amazing really.

Cars, cameras, and easy living...

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Good advice, all.  Thanks again.

GnomeFabTech wrote:

We run 3 times the stock HP through a welded diff. with at least 4 times the tire grip, and rear wheel drive, on the Metro-Gnome using junkyard Geo Metro CV's and they work just fine.  It's amazing really.

Agreed!

Former chief proprietor and lead bad idea generator of Binford "More Power" Racing, 2010-2013: humbly self-proclaimed the best Chevy Beretta in Lemons history.

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

From what i've experienced not all greases mix well together.  I take them totally apart, clean and dry the bits with brake clean and paper towels then reassemble them.  Its a good way to find stuff with cracks, digs, or other ready to fail things the grease would hide.  If you know what grease is in there you could just add it during a reboot but make sure junk didn't get in.  Be careful not to overpack them and make sure you pay attention to the inner/outer cage alignment if its a cv.

If you carefully put a screwdriver under the lip of the boot before clamping it down and try to squeeze the air out it can help.  Some axles are hollow through the shaft and the axle bolt is the last spot of sealing it,  You can squeeze the boot some until the bolt is in and snug.  Then tighten it up.

Silicone helps keep the boots soft.  If you do that on occasion the boots will last longer.  Just let it sit a bit and absorb in so the silicone isn't flung on the brakes/tires/etc.  You don't want it wet to pick up sand n stuff.  If its still wet an hour or so later paper towel it off then give it a bit more to dry.  Be careful spraying it that the mist doesn't end up on the brakes if you do it in the car.  Other rubber conditioners probably work well too, I'd say to stay away from "wet look" stuff though.

Reman axles seem to be a crap shoot.  Some end up good, some are junk.  There might be a driveshaft rebuilder in your area that would do a better job.  Or they might be worse.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: A1 Cardone reman axles: are they really junk?

Omnilith wrote:

3) Good quality synthetic grease is critical. The more angle you run, the more distance the bearings travel in the track, which means more friction. Once you reach the melting point of your cheap grease, it is all over.

I've found a new stuff called "green grease" with a higher-yet drop point than MobilOne or Red grease. It seems to be the same as Lucas Grease. I'm using it on the Vanagon that I tow oh-so-way-over-gross with, and in the w/b and c/v's on the beetle.
Everyone tells me I'll be replacing w/b's on the beetle regularly - and I haven't ~though I do still wipe and replace grease every other event.
http://www.greengrease.net/  -  (it does "stick" quite a bit differently than every other grease I've used - kind of like a combination of Honey and Peanut Butter - it feels really weird, too.

Omnilith wrote:

4) Vent your boots... let the excess pressure out. We used small brass tubing clamped under the small end of the boot to allow venting. It doesn't spit grease.

I use cut down tubes off of carb-cleaner/WD-40 cans that you always end up loosing. This works, you don't need much breathing.

Omnilith wrote:

We now only use OE junkyard parts that we rebuild/service/assemble ourselves. That seems to have gotten the problem under control.

Yeah. On the Beetle I've resorted to using junkyard OEM BOOTS!, even if cracked - they seem to hold up better than the new ones that seem to be made of rubber-based tissue-paper.
As fer the CV's, couldn't tel ya, except re-grease JY's is cheaper to the point of having plenty of spares.

~have heard about the too-long axles. had that on the beetle even - which doesn't want longer in any condition... sent them back. Also have heard about the grit in new CV's, Honda's are no exception. I had a "non-reman" complete axle spit out of a transmission due to a weak circlip - wazzup with the QC in automotive mfg anymore!