Re: X Class observations

squirrelly_z600 wrote:

I think the point that everyone can take away from the weekend is that Dave Coleman ruins everything tongue  First he wrecked flat black cars, then he "invented aluminum exhausts" ~7yrs after the fact, then he/the interwebs took credit for Alex's Lemons box truck...the list just goes on.  Finally, he has to come take the X-class win from us...what a dick smile

Where's the like button?

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
Gnome money, Gnome problems. (RIP) http://www.facebook.com/MetroGnomeRacing

27 (edited by Mulry 2012-03-28 06:57 AM)

Re: X Class observations

gielamonster wrote:
squirrelly_z600 wrote:

I think the point that everyone can take away from the weekend is that Dave Coleman ruins everything tongue  First he wrecked flat black cars, then he "invented aluminum exhausts" ~7yrs after the fact, then he/the interwebs took credit for Alex's Lemons box truck...the list just goes on.  Finally, he has to come take the X-class win from us...what a dick smile

Where's the like button?

+1. Cardinal Fang, add to the list of Spanish Inquisition-like accusations his tendency to name immutable laws of nature, mechanics, superstition, or physics after himself. smile

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

28 (edited by Eyesoreracing 2012-03-29 07:29 AM)

Re: X Class observations

Rebuild every race? Hell, we don't even change the oil every race!

Not sure what you mean by free coating, but the rebuild frequency averages once every 9 races at this point. First engine went 10 races, second engine went 8 races. We blew up bigtime (http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles … ption.aspx) at buttonwillow and rebuilt a really broken $60 engine to make this race. The weekend before the race we were hand-sanding the block deck and honing it with a drill. It was a total thrash to get it together and running.

I don't think our openness about how we built our car hurts us in BS. In fact, it probably helps. We're out here to have fun. Racing is fun, and sharing our techniques for building fast, reliable Lemons cars just means there will be more fast cars to race against.

All our secrets are here, by the way:
http://www.motoiq.com/projects/mazda/pr … miata.aspx


Edit: This post was a response to a post by Sir Thomas Crapper. His post contained something he later realized was inaccurate, so he deleted his post, and now mine looks even more like nonsensical ramblings than it did before.

Re: X Class observations

After pondering it a bit (after someone said the same on another thread) I've come to the conclusion that the powers that be are encouraging us back to crap-can racing.  Bring some junk and maybe some dangerous tech and maybe/hopefully a redonkulous theme and race that shiite.

I have no doubt - as already professed - that the Eyesore Miata is a legit $500 crapcan.  They told all us idiots how to effing do it!  I'll also offer that the Model T GT is probably a $500 crap-can.  Angry Hamsters, MetSho, etc... possibly, probably, maybe?

I got a little misty when last year the Eyesores and the MTGT and another car got 3 arbitrary BS laps at one race.  But, I kind of got it...  bring some industry skill, a sorted car and good drivers and you'll get a little bias particularly after a couple of wins or near wins.  My anti-authoritarian tendencies, however, kicked in BIG TIME when the eyesore's were given the laps or X choice this last weekend.  THE SAME CAR AS LAST TIME w/o LAPS (or maybe three).

I have huge respect for Jay et al.  And, I'm comfortable with a somewhat anticipated level of scrutineering and judgemanship (both words I just made up!)  That said, the X qualifications are sketchy to say the least.  The snowmobile Miata screams Class X per the rulebook whilst the mildly turbo'd ES car clearly does not.  Yet, who was placed in Class X and barely beat the five condenders?

So, to paraphrase the opening paragraph, management seems to be encouraging crap-cans.  Bring a lot of out-of-ordinary skillz and some fast lap times and you might get BS e'ffed.  Maybe this is the demise of the MTGT, the MetSho and a piston rotary MR2 in Lemons.  Who knows?  At the end of the day, however, the current direction seems more consistent with the genesis of Lemons.

Speedycop/NSF Racing /Pinewood Dirtbags
'10 Summit, CMP3, Autobahn, '11 CMP1, NJMP, CMP2, Summit, G'man, Stafford, Charlotte, Autobahn, ECR '12 CMP1, NJMP, G'man, NHMS1, Summit, CMP2, NHMS2, ECR, '13 CMP1, ECR, Summit, NJMP, THill, CMP2, MSR, NHMS, Sears '14 Barber, Sears1, ECR, CMP1, NJMP1, BWillow, Sebring, CMP2, THill, Sears2, '15 Sears1, Barber, Ridge, THill, '16 Sears1

Re: X Class observations

I see X class as aspirational. We are currently in C class, I'm sure if we get as fast as the ex-dirt track Olds we'll be in B. I have no idea how we would drag our shit up into the A class, maybe with a Mustang Cobra IRS and a supercharger?  Start to be fast in A with a car so far removed from its humble Fairmont origins and I would no be upset to get stuck in the X class.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: X Class observations

I personally want to see a larger crowd in X Class.
I think that anyone in who ends up in X class should be extremely honored to be there.

That being said I feel there should be a side bet for an X class win. Each team that gets shoved into X class should pony-up $100.00 bucks and the overall winner of X class gets the cash. Or we could do a Vote in which each X class team gets one vote for a competitors car (they can't vote for their own) and the the car with the most votes gets the cash.

I think this would bring back the teams that feel discouraged since there is no reward for their hard work.

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

32 (edited by psychoboy 2012-03-29 09:22 AM)

Re: X Class observations

i like the side bet idea. 50/50 pot might make for a bigger payout, too.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: X Class observations

Bender/StickFigureRacing wrote:

I can guarantee you that we could get the MRolla legal for the streets if we wanted to.

Honda 600, Model T, and your Willy's all have the advantage of being "vintage" and exempt from many of the restrictions the MRolla would face. The individual engines should pass emissions, but I doubt they'd let us float through safety or emissions with both engines.

Re: X Class observations

as always in Lemons...the "rulebook" is not set in stone like other race series.....things like safety are set in stone, but everything regarding BS and car classes is entirely up to Jay or the Judges at that moment.....they make that extremely clear in the rules...don't like it...make your own race series....

Eyesore has been very open and their build many years ago is well documented....I don't think any other top team is as open as they are regarding how they built everything....

I would love to see Metronome, MT-GT, Hoong Noorth and Eyesore running the same event...& I also want everyone to be penalty free and have reliable cars.....  Let the drivers and pit stratgey decide who wins.....

Sure Cerveza won A class and got $500.....but who really won....Eyesore did

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

35 (edited by random_tox 2012-03-29 10:46 AM)

Re: X Class observations

There's already a "cheaters exempt from winning" class. It's called "penalty laps", and works pretty well. I think every car in X-class was a legit lemon and deserve to race or win as such.

36 (edited by Bender/StickFigureRacing 2012-03-29 10:58 AM)

Re: X Class observations

random_tox wrote:
Bender/StickFigureRacing wrote:

I can guarantee you that we could get the MRolla legal for the streets if we wanted to.

Honda 600, Model T, and your Willy's all have the advantage of being "vintage" and exempt from many of the restrictions the MRolla would face. The individual engines should pass emissions, but I doubt they'd let us float through safety or emissions with both engines.

What second engine? Remove the front exhaust, remove one shifter, hook up the cat in the back and send her in!

Not one mechanic is going to look under the hood when you tell them it's a mid engine MR2
They don't even put the vehicle on the rollers anymore.

Team: V-Ram/Altamont Team: Knights of the Round Track/Reno/Buttonwillow/Thunderhill Team: Death Mobile/Sears 2010/Thunderhill/ChumpCar  Spokane/ MSR Houston/Buttonwillow/Sears. MRolla Project /Reno
http://stickfigureracing.blogspot.com/

Re: X Class observations

and I'd trade places with them in an instant...

Re: X Class observations

ppressle wrote:

and I'd trade places with them in an instant...

Exactly...........................sure $500 is nice.....I'd rather have the win.....  Honestly I'd rather just have the illusive "clean" race....   1:  reliable car  2:  no penalties   3: decent pit stops

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

39

Re: X Class observations

Meh winning.  Personally I'm still just happy getting out on the track and doing the best I can with what I have.  Lack of ambition to win the race I think shows with my car choice though.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: X Class observations

What Lemons REALLY needs is a spec-malaise-era class.  One race we did get a "Highest placing 70's car" trophy.  I think that's in the right spirit.  Who can build and race the most successful car from the era universally recognized as the nadir of automobile history.  Say, 1973 thru 1985. 

Winner gets an official Gerald Ford Pardon, a Jimmy Carter Chicken and/or some Billy Beer, and a Ronald Reagan Morning Again in America alarm clock.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: X Class observations

That was kinda awesome, Mike.  You clearly have been drinking a bit.

Speedycop/NSF Racing /Pinewood Dirtbags
'10 Summit, CMP3, Autobahn, '11 CMP1, NJMP, CMP2, Summit, G'man, Stafford, Charlotte, Autobahn, ECR '12 CMP1, NJMP, G'man, NHMS1, Summit, CMP2, NHMS2, ECR, '13 CMP1, ECR, Summit, NJMP, THill, CMP2, MSR, NHMS, Sears '14 Barber, Sears1, ECR, CMP1, NJMP1, BWillow, Sebring, CMP2, THill, Sears2, '15 Sears1, Barber, Ridge, THill, '16 Sears1

Re: X Class observations

random_tox wrote:

There's already a "cheaters exempt from winning" class. It's called "penalty laps", and works pretty well. I think every car in X-class was a legit lemon and deserve to race or win as such.

Damnit, I still can't find the LIKE BUTTON.

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
Gnome money, Gnome problems. (RIP) http://www.facebook.com/MetroGnomeRacing

Re: X Class observations

DC Doug wrote:

That was kinda awesome, Mike.  You clearly have been drinking a bit.

Just beer.  Sam Adams.  We started to watch a movie, wife fell asleep on the couch, so I was Lemons Foruming.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

44 (edited by Parkwod60 2012-03-31 09:18 AM)

Re: X Class observations

mechimike wrote:

What Lemons REALLY needs is a spec-malaise-era class.  One race we did get a "Highest placing 70's car" trophy.  I think that's in the right spirit.  Who can build and race the most successful car from the era universally recognized as the nadir of automobile history.  Say, 1973 thru 1985. 

Winner gets an official Gerald Ford Pardon, a Jimmy Carter Chicken and/or some Billy Beer, and a Ronald Reagan Morning Again in America alarm clock.

I don't know about your Malaise Mobile, but I am at making the Billy Beer Futura better and better until is just as fast as anything else out there.  We need to find an extra 10 seconds a lap to be fighting for the class C win, and much of that will come from just fixing our fuel starvation problem and a better alignment with proper caster/camber/toe.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

45 (edited by gearhead455 2012-03-31 10:19 AM)

Re: X Class observations

X Class =

1. You are a Level +1000 Expert in BS (receipts, documents, websites, sworn affidavits, notarized sworn testimony)
2. Raced in to too many events to heavily penalize (loyal repeat customer)
3. Nice guys, run clean laps (not dicks)
4. The judges know deep down in side you are totally full of shit, however your car is over-the-top (cool) and brings interest to the series.

Subtract one step above from your "X-class" car = A Class +50 BS laps

Re: X Class observations

gearhead455 wrote:

X Class =

1. You are a Level +1000 Expert in BS (receipts, documents, websites, sworn affidavits, notarized sworn testimony)
2. Raced in to too many events to heavily penalize (loyal repeat customer)
3. Nice guys, run clean laps (not dicks)
4. The judges know deep down in side you are totally full of shit, however your car is over-the-top (cool) and brings interest to the series.

Subtract one step above from your "X-class" car = A Class +50 BS laps

Well said........another litmus test I like to think of is this.............if a new team, never raced before shows up with an established "X" class car.........complete with the exact theme.....would they get X class?  Would they get laps? 

Could complete noobs show up with Eyesores miata, the T-GT or Metronome....if so what would happen to them?  While the T-GT and metronome is very unlikely since they are so custom.....a turbo miata is very easy......I think one showed up years ago & got penalized to death, just to blow up on day 1.......

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: X Class observations

Now another point is what now happens when a legit $500 non modded car shows up that is way faster that the fastest Class X car? It is going to happen but its just a matter of when.

Re: X Class observations

Way faster than Eyesore, MTGT and so on?

Way?

There may be faster cars to be had but I am not sure we are going to see way faster cars on the tires we are forced to run.

Daniel Sycks

Re: X Class observations

Parkwod60 wrote:
mechimike wrote:

What Lemons REALLY needs is a spec-malaise-era class.  One race we did get a "Highest placing 70's car" trophy.  I think that's in the right spirit.  Who can build and race the most successful car from the era universally recognized as the nadir of automobile history.  Say, 1973 thru 1985. 

Winner gets an official Gerald Ford Pardon, a Jimmy Carter Chicken and/or some Billy Beer, and a Ronald Reagan Morning Again in America alarm clock.

I don't know about your Malaise Mobile, but I am at making the Billy Beer Futura better and better until is just as fast as anything else out there.  We need to find an extra 10 seconds a lap to be fighting for the class C win, and much of that will come from just fixing our fuel starvation problem and a better alignment with proper caster/camber/toe.

We're trying, of course.  But when you start with a piece of burlap and a bag of dried out Sharpies as your medium, it's a lot harder to paint the Mona Lisa than if you start with a fine piece of canvas and oil paints.  But, the results are arguably a lot more interesting and unique!

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

50

Re: X Class observations

We have 2 class c wins.  Both were a product of reliability vs speed.  Seems that C class is more a contest of attrition.

b

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