The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → So how did we do at Nelson Ledges?
Oh, and I was looking at the track record times... ITA (what the MK2 N/A MR2 is in) the record is 1:15.755. I think we ran 1:27s or something near that.
Tim Stevens in a GT3 MR2 MK1 ran a 1:16:758 way back in 2004.
Of course they were not running snow tires either.
I have to agree. We all discussed places where passing was a no-no. Within 3 laps on Friday I violated all of them.
In my race car (no, not the crap car) I would probably $hit myself going outside of the kink 2 wide while lining up another pass prior to the hump and another going into 12...
From outside it looked like complete and utter chaos but I found it serenely peaceful and relaxing from the driver's seat. I found extended periods of time to sing to my crew and crack jokes all while making passes that I would never have considered if not presented with the opportunity that lay in front of me at the time.
Thanks for the singing but keep that day job. Looks like we will have to put a second radio with a spotter on the backside of the track to keep an eye on you next year!
Yep, I need to keep the day job so I can afford this crap. A second radio wouldn't be bad as it did get a bit 'crackily' back there anyway.
I have a blast. Judging was a little strong but fair. Wasn't big fan of the night stuff, our lights sucked, other peoples were just way too damn bright. Wish more people would pay attention to blue flags, or flags in general. Considering the number of cars and complexity of this event it went amazingly well.
Thanks to all parties that made this event a sucess!
Team 2 Slow Racing definately would like to return for a 3rd event using the same car in one of these true 24-hour events.
It was hard as hell to photograph at night. I've got some learning to do.
It was a neat trick getting my 2WD dually unstuck 4 times, too.
It was great fun pulling an F350 out of the mud with my Dodge.
The end of the paddock on the gate-side of the track must be low, or something, because it was a freaking quagmire over there. We had to push the Caddy out of our pit, and helped our neighboring Fiero team out with pushes several times, too. My shoes are ruined, I sacrificed 5 pairs of socks to the Ohio clay, and it's going to take me every bit of 6 hours to pressure-wash all the mud off the undercarriage of my truck, and I went over 40 hours without sleep while helping change head gaskets, but it was worth it.
I also did a whopping 255 miles of parts runs (one trip to Summit, the rest of that mileage from trips to the Advance in Nelson) and burned up half of a 36-gallon tank of diesel in the process. I spent the weekend cold, wet, muddy, cold, wet, and cold (did I mention it was cold? I'm a native Floridian) but again, who cares, it was so much goddamned fun I'm already jonesing for another race.
it was so much fun I'm already jonesing for another race.
Me too! Why is that? Didn't we suffer enough last weekend? Is this supposed to be fun?
It was hard as hell to photograph at night. I've got some learning to do.
It was a neat trick getting my 2WD dually unstuck 4 times, too.
It was great fun pulling an F350 out of the mud with my Dodge.
The end of the paddock on the gate-side of the track must be low, or something, because it was a freaking quagmire over there. We had to push the Caddy out of our pit, and helped our neighboring Fiero team out with pushes several times, too. My shoes are ruined, I sacrificed 5 pairs of socks to the Ohio clay, and it's going to take me every bit of 6 hours to pressure-wash all the mud off the undercarriage of my truck, and I went over 40 hours without sleep while helping change head gaskets, but it was worth it.
I also did a whopping 255 miles of parts runs (one trip to Summit, the rest of that mileage from trips to the Advance in Nelson) and burned up half of a 36-gallon tank of diesel in the process. I spent the weekend cold, wet, muddy, cold, wet, and cold (did I mention it was cold? I'm a native Floridian) but again, who cares, it was so much goddamned fun I'm already jonesing for another race.
Ditto. I actually got my 4 X 4 Excursion stuck. I did get all the mud washed off yesterday, took mt ten dollars of quarters and I haven't even begun tackling the inside of my mud-encrusted trailer. 
But it was worth it.
It does really suck to get passed by a wrecker while you are at WOT racing your little heart out... look over beside you and see a guy smiling at you from the wrecker
not that that happened to me
I've been on the back of Willies truck when we:
A) outran an ITC field on the back straight and
B) was hanging onto to rope that was tied to a Formula Ford and hanging on for dear life when he took the kink without lifting.
I wish y'all could have seen him and Jay do a double wrecker on a bent car. One in front and one on the back with the back one driving in reverse!!! It's something to see.
this gives me an idea. a parts swapper board. need a part? write it on the board. have a part listed on the board? be a good guy and go help 'em out.
That is a VERY good idea. Shoot a message to Judge Jonny, Murilee, Jay, et al. and I think they could easily accommodate this extremely helpful billboard idea. This would help a lot of teams save time going pit to pit or calling around for parts.
The best part about it IMO is that it clearly shows who's got parts to offer. I know from past experiences that people have come to us for parts that we had a hard time parting with- because we may need it for ourselves!
In terms of how NL did? Downright AWESOME. Wow........... I'm a bit surprised to read some of the complaints (I read all six page.....) because for shit's sake, this is Lemons!!!! Sure the flagging missed some things and there was some confusion. 130 cars and the dead of night can do that, ya know. However I thought they did a VERY good job of keeping order to the mayhem, especially at night (my times in teh car were all in the dark of night). I know from one 8P-10P stint I saw the track control do the right thing when the shit was starting to hit the fan- Around that time, amongst my fellow pack of racers I was in, things were gettting pretty dicey. I was one of the boneheads who pulled a hero move and tried to slingshot a pass of the #31 Nissan 300Z on the outside of 9 (carousel exit) and pulled the trigger too soon, tracking out into the grass. I put 2 off on the outside, slid across the track back to the inside, went down into the grass and broadsided the tire wall. Ooops. I didn't collect anyone else, I and the car were fine so I continued to the pits.
~15-20 min. later I got back on track & the long ?full? course yellow posted a new offender's car number at turn 10 each time I went by. I instantly realized they were taking control of the track to calm everyone down and bring numerous drivers into the penalty box. After the long yellow ended, the driving behavior on the track was clearly less agressive, which only makes sense since we still had like 15 hours left in the race!!!!!. NICELY DONE TRACK STAFF
I thought the track itself and the paddock/parking area + facilities were OUTSTANDING. From where we were parked (along pit road exit road that goes to the paddock area, near the bridge) porta pottys and garbage cans everywhere, people on ATVs regularly tending to garbage was more than i've ever seen at any other track. The paddock area was in GREAT shape, even despite the rain. This track drains very well (except for those of you in some select quagmire areas....) from what I saw and I roamed around the whole track alot. Other tracks i've been to don't get rid of the water nearly as well as NL does.
The track itself is freaking insanely fun. Our team is accustomted to a narrow track (Blackhawk Farms in Rockton IL is equally narrow) so that didn't bother us. However the speed you can get from teh long sweepers and banked sections is crazy fun. I hope NL has us back next year because it was more fun than any race event i've ever done.
Please Please Please Please Please Please let us race again at Nelson! Any day, any month, rain or shine, full 24hr!!!!
Our team had a fantastic time again this year. We would love thank all of the workers and the other teams who made it possible. We helped some teams and received help from teams and this is what this event is about. None of our team had been to NL before and none of us race. Three of us sort of ran at toledo last year and that is our only racing experience. We don't even watch racing but we love cars and love this race.
I was wondering as well about the asshats in the spec miata. Just made me angry watching it pass our rust bucket.
I read the rules for the lighting and we found our set-up to be way underpowered for the race so we fixed it Saturday morning no big deal but the description of racing in the dark could have been better for noobs. Luckily the team insisted on some practice laps friday night.
It would have been nice to know the track was opening on Thursday night because we camped at a rest stop 40 miles away on I-80 and could have teched much earlier.
Due to our inexperience some of the yellow flag issues slapped us in the face but after a call on the radio I figured out the blue/yellow and really appreciated it.
I don't understand the whining when you get a penalty. The odds of winning this race are less than the powerball. There is no way to avoid bad drivers like us all day and all night. When we changed drivers during the first 12 hours of the race its the first time the guy in the seat has driven the car we are running, seen the track we are on, or raced at all, much less in traffic. Throw in cars in a half-assed state of repair (that was us last year) and cars that can't even hope to keep up and you have what we call a clusterF$%#. This is the condition that I experienced when I entered the race at 5:30pm Saturday. Everyone else was dancing and it seemed I was the only one on the track with no pants. Terrifying and embarrassing and all the while thrilling. This is what seems to be the most fun. Also I couldn't help but laugh every time I passed or got passed by something that obviously shouldn't be moving much less racing around nelson at good knows how fast. Does anybody know the speeds traveled through the kink. We were in 5th but have no gauges, they just confuse us. Winning isn't our goal, running is and I was amazed to see so many cars on the track at the end.
I took a couple spins, one definitely my fault the other was me trying to avoid another drivers overzealous pass into #1. But on both my goal was to beat the black flag back to the penalty shack, own up to the penalty, and carry it out in a grand manner. (we will have the largest fender washers at the track next year.) I'm guessing the judges don't do this for the cash so they don't need to get griped at like an NFL ref. Although instant replay would be nice at the lems. (probably from both sides)
Light bulb goes off.
I THOUGHT I heard Jay say during the meeting that the no passing was from when you can SEE the yellow flag station to when you can SEE the a flag station that's not yellow. Those are the rules I followed, even when it lead to passing past incidents. It seemed like others around me were doing the same thing. We'd see the spun car and the non-yellow station and everyone goes to full throttle, even if its before the incident.
Did I hear the rules wrong at the meeting? This would explain why my team thought the flagging was terrible. The flaggers were flagging using the "no pass until after the incident or you see the next non-yellow station" rule as described able.
This is what I heard as well. After we took a "undeserved" penalty (not me driving so I can't confirm) for passing under yellow we all just took it real easy when the yellows came out. Once in a while there were spotty yellows and I just didn't do much "racing" between the flags. We weren't going to win so giving up a couple spots here and there under a flag wasn't a big deal and driving is better than penalties no matter how strange they are.
My other 2 cents: I think the foam in the tool box was over the line. Passing out candy taped to a bear if fine but violating a guys manhood like foaming his tools. Way too much
Thanks NL for all the fun and if you find our transponder out there let me know and I'll send a nice reward (how about a spent 300zx trany).
Cheers to all
Hope to see you next year
Boomer
Team Polska Kielbasa
#31 Nissan 300ZX
www.polska.stonehousetap.com
If our gauge was correct, we were ~110 in the kink.
Our gauge wasn't working...but if my math is correct we were topping out at 88mph!!! oh baby
Remainder of the Schumacher Taxi Service checking in.
I loved Nelson Ledges! Great track, organized, friendly and challenging event.
Kudos to the track organizers and the often under-appreciated flaggers, wrecker and safety crews. And of course there's the crazy Lemons crew and judges -- it pains me so say it, but you're first class too! :-)
A few suggestions:
1. Post or provide a written summary of pit lane rules. There was great and appropriate concern for our safety (which I appreciate) but sometimes inconsistent feedback on what was permitted from race officials.
Specifically:
- different statements (and team actions) on whether driver only (no fuel) change could be done on pit lane
- inconsistent views on whether helment visors (that often fogged) could be cracked open during fueling.
2. Similar "post written summary" suggestions for flag (and nighttime light) meanings. Heck, I'm a trained SCCA flagger and I personally was uncertain whether a flashing yellow at night was intended to be a "waving, extreme caution yellow" or a full course yellow. White flag certainly should be explained to all. I liked wrecker crew clearing the track without many FC yellows.
3. Indicate what flag station reported the penalty. (e.g., reported passing under yellow AT STATION 4). This will help us learn where incidents occur so that we can avoid doing it again --- particularly for yellow flag violations where part of the problem might be someone not tracking where a flag station was. Everyone's safety will benefit from a black flagged driver knowing he/she screwed up a station 4 and going to map to study where that station is. Besides then we can be more specific in our whining! :-)
4. Observation that the yellow light at end of main straight gets temporarly obscured by the bridge while partway down the straight making it appear to have been turned off for a few seconds. This can lead to incorrectly resuming racing in situations when a yellow flag was not also displayed at start/finish.
5. Love the idea of a "need a part board". Might be incorporated into the PA system. Similar announcements of needs are incorporated into the PA announcements during the college Formula SAE competitions (along with funny bogus announcments).
6. Knowing in advance the track will broadcast announcements on FM radio would help everyone know to bring a pit radio.
Finally, kudos also to all other teams, your track manners, crazy cars and the spirit of cooperation in the pits. It's been a pleasure racing with many of you throughout this year; can't wait for next season.
If our math was right, we went about 111mph in the kink. Yay for speed!
one guy reported 110 in that section on my team. However, I know for a fact i was consistently in the mid-90s, and typically I run the fastest lap times. sometimes, you gotta slow down to go faster 
3. Indicate what flag station reported the penalty. (e.g., reported passing under yellow AT STATION 4). This will help us learn where incidents occur so that we can avoid doing it again --- particularly for yellow flag violations where part of the problem might be someone not tracking where a flag station was. Everyone's safety will benefit from a black flagged driver knowing he/she screwed up a station 4 and going to map to study where that station is. Besides then we can be more specific in our whining! :-)
We have a hard enough time just getting the car number and type of offense down, given the overwhelming flood of miscreants that show up in the Penalty Box. Usually we'll have 11 cars stacked up, plus 75 agitated team members milling around and demanding the details about their totally undeserved penalties when several more black flags come in over the staticky-ass radio. And if we somehow managed to receive/log flag station numbers for each penalty, the discussions would go like this:
JUDGE: Do you know why you're here?
MISCREANT DRIVER: (Throwing hands in air) I have no idea!
JUDGE: You ran over 50 cones at Turn 4, spun out, left the track, crushed an endangered Eastern Ohio Green-Pancreased Marmoset, then got out of the car and threw a 1976-vintage Amana Radar Range at the race leader.
MISCREANT DRIVER: No way! This track doesn't even have a Turn 4! It's been against Ohio law since Warren G. Harding was president- they skip right from Turn 3 to Turn 5!
MISCREANT DRIVER'S TEAMMATE: Yeah! What he said!
RANDOM PENALTY BOX IDLER: Spray burning starting fluid on him! (Crowd roars approval)
JUDGE: OK, forget what turn it happened at-
MISCREANT DRIVER: (Interrupting) I don't know what you're talking about! I didn't do anything!
GREEK CHORUS OF MISCREANT DRIVER'S TEAMMATES: This is bullshit! You're singling us out because you hate all BMWs!
RANDOM DUDE 1: Hey, quick question: Is it OK for us to refuel while gas-welding the exhaust system, as long as we use metal gas cans?
JUDGE: I don't give a damn what goddamn turn it happened at, you're not allowed to throw fucking microwave ovens anywhere on the track! Get outta the car, NOW!
MISCREANT DRIVER: I didn't do it! You must be mixing our car up with the other BMW with the "OW! MY BALLS!" theme!
GREEK CHORUS OF MISCREANT DRIVER'S TEAMMATES: Yeah!
RANDOM DUDE 2: Hey, quick question: They're telling us that we can't use 12-gauge Romex for driver's safety harnesses, but the website clearly states that-
JUDGE: (Whips out PPSh-41 and guns down Miscreant Driver and his whole team) Enough of this rebop! How about I bust some caps in your monkey ass, shitheel?
So you can see how more detail given about offenses would make things worse, not better, in the Penalty Box.
.....
JUDGE: Do you know why you're here?MISCREANT DRIVER: (Throwing hands in air) I have no idea!
JUDGE: You ran over 50 cones at Turn 4, spun out, left the track, crushed an endangered Eastern Ohio Green-Pancreased Marmoset, then got out of the car and threw a 1976-vintage Amana Radar Range at the race leader.
MISCREANT DRIVER: No way! This track doesn't even have a Turn 4! It's been against Ohio law since Warren G. Harding was president- they skip right from Turn 3 to Turn 5!
....
FUNNY STUFF!
We have a hard enough time just getting the car number and type of offense down, given the overwhelming flood of miscreants that show up in the Penalty Box. Usually we'll have 11 cars stacked up, plus 75 agitated team members milling around and demanding the details about their totally undeserved penalties when several more black flags come in over the staticky-ass radio. ....
[Humor_On]
Race control radio transmission ...
Station 909: "Control, Station 909, Green Flag"
Control: "Go ahead, 909"
Station 909: "BS Judge cited for excessive whining at 3:04 AM"
Control: "Thanks, 909. Confirmed; BS Judge - excessive whining"
[\Humor_Off]
Seriously, we've got a lot of drivers entering a hot track during your races who often may have not had a chance to visualize where the flag station locations are prior to running hot race laps. This is expecially true at night without any clear visual references of the flag station locations.
Helping us to understand where we miss a flag (when conditions permit) is for everyone's well being out there. It's not necessary to provide detail for other more obvious infractions.
Thanks again for being a "whiny ass judge". :-)
Murilee, I would buy a ticket to see that movie.
John, I think his point is valid - it's infeasible for them to keep track of even more information when they can't keep what they've already got straight. Maybe the "welcome packet" paperwork should have a point on it that every team member should look at the track map and study where the flagging stations are. But did you read your welcome packet? (Very many people didn't.) I know that wouldn't help TOO much since they still wouldn't know where they did wrong. But I'm betting that most drivers know and just don't think they deserved it.
Thanks again for being a "whiny ass judge". :-)
He's not with me...
LOL
Thanks again for being a "whiny ass judge". :-)
Duly noted in your permanent record.
"MurileeMartin - Duly noted in your permanent record"
Uht, Oh....................not good to be you dude.
I laughed, I cried, I peed.
Bravo, honorable Judge, bravo.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → So how did we do at Nelson Ledges?
