The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → Can we talk about why you idiots chose the Porsche for the Curse?
Well here is my suggestion on this whole problem about good cars getting crushed. Take the cars blacked flagged the most on Saturday (10 or so) and then take 5 with the Judges picks. You take those 15 or so and vote on them on Sunday morning for the Curse. This way it does ensure the bad of the bad are in the vote and some that were bad but just not caught for flags.
Oh, I feel horrible now... because we didn't vote either... noone stood out as asshats enough to deserve it, in our eyes, and we didn't realize that NOT voting could end up with innocents getting killed off... bummer... more of our inexperience showing... won't happen again.
A good example of why 'no vote' should mean 'I choose to curse no one'. If you've got 130 teams and only get 40 ballots, that indicates to me that 90 teams don't think anyone deserves it. Do we really need to make those 90 teams turn in a 'no one' ballot?
Not to take a dump on everyone's head here but all you guys that did NOT vote, basically voted for the Porsche.
^this^
Vote early, vote often
Voted "no one". They took ballots late, thankfully. We were bummed to see it toasted. The Dragon was a cool theme, too.
That said, I'm not brave enough to bring a 944 to this event. Most curse voters won't know your build story or look to see the rust and dents.
One of the fast cars that were darting through traffic, pushing us over to make room on probably should have gotten it. And they tended to have paint-only themes.
A good example of why 'no vote' should mean 'I choose to curse no one'. If you've got 130 teams and only get 40 ballots, that indicates to me that 90 teams don't think anyone deserves it. Do we really need to make those 90 teams turn in a 'no one' ballot?
+1!
That is why. Yes, mistakes were made. The vile solution should have been put in that nice, non-stock straight cut gearbox. Probably a dog box with the C/R gear set. After 20+ years racing with these Tutonic Titwillows, many of their secrets have been pried out of them. Usually via Alcohol or sex.
Cheers thicko
Are you talking about our car? Hahaha, you should try shifting/driving it, its like shifting a MAC truck the linkage/etc is so worn. All we did was change the trans oil before the race.
We made sure to vote, but it wasn't for that Porsche. Again, like many, we were very surprised to hear the curse was the Dragon Porsche. I hardly saw them because we were paying attention to the cars out on the track. It sucks that a supposedly undeserving car got the curse.
That being said, I hope the rules don't get changed. The people have spoken! Next race, I'm sure most teams will make sure they vote for someone who somewhat deserves it instead of not voting at all.
there aren't black flag penalties for being a d-bag on track. do you really want the corner workers deciding whether you chooped someone off too closely, or that your passing move was actually a block of someone else? i don't. when the superkak car tracked out of a corner and forced me 2 wheels off in order to avoid contact, there is no flag for that. but there is my curse ballot.
and BS laps only help prevent a cheater from winning; they don't do anything to prevent asshattery on track (in fact, they may encourage it as the team tries to make those laps up).
Wrong. There ARE penalties for douchebag driving. We nail people all the time for driving too aggressively. Or blocking.
yokel wrote:This result is a slap in the face of the B.S. judges - it's their job to even the playing field, not the mob. I always thought this award was for obvious douchebaggery on the track, or the worst cheater of the race - did these guys get any B.S. points?
At tech we were awarded a 20 lap penalty for being Porsche Club members. We were able to bribe that down to only a 15 lap penalty with some booze.
Then, after we did the head gasket and I was 3 laps into my only driving stint, I was given a bogus black-flag and was told by the judges to write a two page essay on "the unfairness of the judges and the superiority of Porsche." Which I did in good humor and read it on the PA.
I guess life hands you Lemons sometimes. But it'll clearly be a long time before the sour taste of this event leaves my soul.
Your essay was fantastic. Truly an inspiration.
But dude, come on, there are no bogus black flags.
A good example of why 'no vote' should mean 'I choose to curse no one'. If you've got 130 teams and only get 40 ballots, that indicates to me that 90 teams don't think anyone deserves it. Do we really need to make those 90 teams turn in a 'no one' ballot?
Perhaps we should apply that logic to our next presidential election. An abstention is counted as a vote for the Chuck D/Jello Biafra ticket!
Ok, I'll go on record as having voted for the Porsche (seems like nobody else has fessed up, was my vote the only one? ...).
Right up front, I'll apologize, having read the comments by the owners/team members. Your car just looked and sounded too damn nice. There were rumors floating around the paddock of special racing hose couplings, blah, blah, blah. It sure did look and sound like you brought a $10k car to a $500 race.
We spent a lot of time discussing amongst ourselves. It didn't seem like there were any teams driving like real a-holes this time around, so we ended up voting for a team that sure did seem to bring a lot of car to a crap box event.
So again, I'll apologize for sending my vote in your direction, at least you now know why you got at least one vote.
That said, the People Curse thing has got me baffled. Why destroy this car at all? I heard Jay was pissed that this car had gotten the award, he's the boss, why destroy it at all? Hit it with a hammer, let the air out of the tires, is there really a rule that says a car *must* be destroyed? Jay is the boss, he can do as he pleases.
P.C. was discussed on the Yahoo list a while back, and I seem to remember Jay jumping in and stating that the voting had never been close, and if it got to the point where somebody non-deserving was the front runner, then he'd do the right thing.
Anyhow, I'm now wishing we'd voted for 'none of the above'. Again, my apologies to the Porsche guys, contact me off list and I'll donate to another engine for your car.
bs
Regarding the participants and opinions on this Forum. With just under 1000 registered users, this forum only represents a small portion of the LeMon's community. I'd imagine there are about 1000 cars participating in Lemons in 2009. So I figure the forum represents around 25% of the participants or less.
Well, i guess the question is how many cars were at Lamest Day... just tallying up the posters/teams that responded to this thread, there are about 34 who either didn't vote at all or specified that they didn't vote for the Porsche...
David Hawkins wrote:A good example of why 'no vote' should mean 'I choose to curse no one'. If you've got 130 teams and only get 40 ballots, that indicates to me that 90 teams don't think anyone deserves it. Do we really need to make those 90 teams turn in a 'no one' ballot?
Perhaps we should apply that logic to our next presidential election. An abstention is counted as a vote for the Chuck D/Jello Biafra ticket!
I could support that idea. There haven't been many elections where I felt 'none of the above' wouldn't have been a better option.
But we're not electing a president. We're choosing to destroy someone's hard work. Do we really want to do that if the majority of teams don't feel anyone deserves it?
Seriously, that car -- the Dragon 944 -- spent most of the day on blocks getting a new head gasket and was in 107th place when it got the curse. From all accounts the guys driving it were very clean and as far as I can remember wracked up one, maybe two, black flags.
I even had one guy's 4-year-old daughter walk up to me and tell me she hates me. I had to sit the poor thing down and explain that it's Democracy she hates, not Judges.
Point being, mob rule has totally failed.
Jonny maybe a " Judges Curse " should be implemented in addition to the peoples curse I can think of several cars we saw repeatedly in on penalties that more than deserved it . all the judges could vote on it considering Jay can always grant a pardon to the peoples curse choice I dont think its NOT working the people just make bad decisions based on other criteria I think its part of the fun
...Ok, I'll go on record as having voted for the Porsche (seems like nobody else has fessed up, was my vote the only one? ...
Well thats refreshing.
Sometimes the bs gets pretty thick in here.
But dude, come on, there are no bogus black flags.
Yeah, we did get one black flag and it was deserved (4 off) avoiding another car. Just the wrong person made it to the penalty box so he was confused and claimed bogus. The correct person never saw the flag and just came in for a driver change...so Van took one for the team and had to write an essay. No complaints here over that.
Judge Jonny wrote:But dude, come on, there are no bogus black flags.
Yeah, we did get one black flag and it was deserved (4 off) avoiding another car. Just the wrong person made it to the penalty box so he was confused and claimed bogus. The correct person never saw the flag and just came in for a driver change...so Van took one for the team and had to write an essay. No complaints here over that.
4 off avoiding another car...
Guys, all of you, you are not allowed to go 4 off no matter what.
If you drive off the race track you get a black flag.
If a baby carriage appears on track and you drive off to avoid it, you get a black flag. So yes, hitting the baby carriage is the better option. Though, obviously, we'll flag you for contact should you hit the baby carriage.
An abstention is counted as a vote for the Chuck D/Jello Biafra ticket!
Totally awesome Dead Kennedys reference.
That said, the People Curse thing has got me baffled. Why destroy this car at all? I heard Jay was pissed that this car had gotten the award, he's the boss, why destroy it at all? Hit it with a hammer, let the air out of the tires, is there really a rule that says a car *must* be destroyed? Jay is the boss, he can do as he pleases.
Jay backed himself into a corner with promises of a topical curse penalty and all. People were curious what was going to happen, so SOMETHING had to happen i suppose.
A more topical curse would have been to bury the car in the mud, intact, with a backhoe and hand the cursed owners a shovel. The mud was a mess this weekend.
If you drive off the race track you get a black flag.
(..) we'll flag you for contact should you hit the baby carriage.
I don't know why that's so difficult for some people to get. "It takes two to tango" is a cliche for a reason. And even if it somehow magically isn't your fault in any way shape or form, everyone knows that bad stuff still happens to good people and you should be happy you didn't roll when you heroically went four-off. A 30 minute penalty is much faster than rolling. Backing off on the throttle and letting the dumbass take the inside line is even faster still.
Good call on the carriage.
I agree with the above. "Some d-bag punted me" just means that you were in a place for him to hit you. If you drove like your life depended on it (and with all the whining, you would think it did), you would drive like a grandma out there so as not to get hit by anyone. It's certainly possible, and probably recommended in an endurance race (to a certain extent).
4 off avoiding another car...
Guys, all of you, you are not allowed to go 4 off no matter what.
If you drive off the race track you get a black flag.
If a baby carriage appears on track and you drive off to avoid it, you get a black flag. So yes, hitting the baby carriage is the better option. Though, obviously, we'll flag you for contact should you hit the baby carriage.
I'm saying we did deserve the flag and we did get the penalty - just the wrong driver on our team got the penalty (and that was our fault) - Van got the penalty but it was Alan who was driving when that happened. Sorry the way I worded it originally was confusing.
Not to take a dump on everyone's head here but all you guys that did NOT vote, basically voted for the Porsche.
If everyone on here who says they did not vote would have voted for No One, it would be hard to beat that vote.
In three races, we voted for a competitor once. I let a team mate do it. I wrote in Jay's rental in February, voted the same or No One in June. Unless a team really drives like a bunch of assholes, I will not vote to curse a competitor's car. Notice I said a TEAM of bad drivers. Don't ruin a whole teams weekend over 1 bad driver.
Regarding cheating, I don't care if they show up with a Formula 1 car. The Curse is for BAD DRIVERS.
So who's bringing a Ferrari, I wouldn't mind having some of their paint on my car. Of course a scuff of Ferrari paint would put a car over the $500 rule. What's an old CART car worth these days?
Until you've actually built and primarily funded a $500 Crap Can, you are fairly clueless. Plenty of teams are talking about $3500-6000 for your first race. You can do alot within the $500 limit if you are skilled and motivated enough. Pretty doesn't mean your cheating but it shouldn't matter anyway.
Lots of black flag doesn't necessarily indicate aggressive (asshat) driver's either. A lot of times it's a lack of car control or inexperience. Probably the lack of control is due to inexperience. We were all beginner's at some point, most of us pretty recently, and we are all still learning. The black flags are there to keep everyone in line and make the event safe, especially for beginners. It shouldn't be a factor for the Curse.
Teams should be voting on the Curse based on their observations of on track driving. If you didn't see anything bad, than vote for No One. If you saw a car repeatedly doing bad things throughout the race, then Curse them. In my opinion, a few minor infractions is a fair cry from a team of assholes worthy of the Curse.
Regarding the participants and opinions on this Forum. With just under 1000 registered users, this forum only represents a small portion of the LeMon's community. I'd imagine there are about 1000 cars participating in Lemons in 2009. So I figure the forum represents around 25% of the participants or less.
^^^^ Best post I've read on this topic. Well said Troy.
I contend it is the duty of the BS judges (not the angry mob) to find cheaters and they do a damn fine job of it overall. Especially since the cheating 'perception' has often been proven wrong. In the case of the 944 though, they were in the pits so long why would you even care if they did cheat? What were they cheating YOU out of exactly? It's not like they were going to win or anything. Like Troy said, it's very easy to have over $4,000 invested in your race weekend. Having your car get the curse because someone 'assumed' you were cheating (and really...just because the engine had whine?) is a real kick in the nads.
The overall opinion of the masses (on this forum at least) seem to think the curse rule (at a minimum) needs to be revamped. I for one agree on that point. The ideas I've heard that I liked:
1. Write in your reason for the curse on the ballot or maybe add a check box with options.
2. 50% of the field (not 50% of the votes) must vote to invoke the curse.
3. If the vote is close at all the Supreme Court gets to decide.
I'd love to see a curse where we give one mechanic from every tieam 10 minutes to carefully remove parts from the cursed car. Each mechanic only gets to use one tool.
The cursed car can then return to competion as soon as they put all the parts back on thier car.
So - how much dissaembly could 125 guys do with one tool in 10 minutes?
Hmmmm - could be fun to watch! (and not as destructive, but plenty time comsuming)
If Jay was so pissed that this car got the curse, why did he not claim it then? That rule has yet to come into play. He should have that right, or let it be crushed. That is the only way a car should be spared from the curse in my opinion. It seems that the only way to prevent these arguements is to either do away with it, or follow the mob rule - no matter what the outcome is. Why even put it to a vote then?
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → Can we talk about why you idiots chose the Porsche for the Curse?