• From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

kalpol wrote:
icemang17 wrote:

The price of one adjustable Koni and your whole budget is GONE...

Not really, we found a NOS set of red Konis for the front of the Brava for a hundred bucks.  Granted, who else would have ever bought them, but still, maybe you'll get lucky.

Also they were on the stiffest setting and nothing ripped out of the car.

They should have paid you to take those Brava (131) shocks.... where else could they have gotten rid of them?         I haven't seen a Brava or 131 on the road for over 10 years, maybe 15 years....     and I'm in rust-free land!

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'
  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

I should also add another point or two about doing well:

    It has been mentioned many times: Have Fun, this race (often referred to as the 'burning man of auto racing')   is all about fun, never forget that.  When everything goes wrong and your crapbox craps out, smile, try to fix it and move on....      Lemons is the single best racing experience out there, bar none, don't get too caught up in the competition to enjoy it...   That said, watching the car that you built win is quite fun as well!! 

On doing well and having fun-

     If you get a chance, test your car at a racetrack.  Find a track day or driving event that will let you get some time on track.  Find out what's going to break before the race begins, this will add to your fun, as you will be watching or racing rather than fixing your broken, oil spewing, whip.

some groups that offer track days:

  Hooked on Driving
  NASA HPDE
  Team Racing
  Checkered Flag
  Marque Clubs (Volvo, BMW, Porsche. Mazda, etc)
 

   There are many more, I just can't think of them now.

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'
  • From: 5,280 ft.
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 1,298

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

icemang17 wrote:

The price of one adjustable Koni and your whole budget is GONE...

new, yes.  it's really too bad no one has ever bought konis before, or those that have never want to sell their used pieces.  b/c that sure would be useful.  wink

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Buzz Killington's Website

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

I might as well add this for the octillionth time: the teams that end up winning usually don't attract much attention on the track, except for the few minutes after each standings update gets taped to the wall and everyone is reminded that the "invisible car" is leading. The eventual winner will get passed by cars that will finish in the 80s countless times during the race, and the team's best lap time will be deceptive; it happens during a random lucky lap during which every single turn was free of dingbats spinning out, dropping bumpers, and/or entering five abreast. 

Somehow the winners manage to spend an entire weekend avoiding getting into a position where some bozo could hit them and/or force them off the track. This is a concept I've tried to explain, without success, to many racers in the Penalty Box who "got punted" or "got spun" and had "no possible way" to avoid contact.

By the way, to all you guys at MSR who laughed and laughed at the slow-ass Rum Runners Malibu chugging around the track like a cement mixer: 19th place out of 122 entrants! Who gets last laugh now, suckaz?

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
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  • Registered: 2009-10-27
  • Posts: 14

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

LOL.. that Malibu is hilarious... it is 'perfect Lemons material', for sure... that thing heaves and 'ho's, like a sunfish with rosie odonnell in it.  Congrats to them for making it work! big_smile

  • From: Portland
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 568

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

MurileeMartin wrote:

By the way, to all you guys at MSR who laughed and laughed at the slow-ass Rum Runners Malibu chugging around the track like a cement mixer: 19th place out of 122 entrants! Who gets last laugh now, suckaz?

I'd be happy with a top 20 finish....

Matt
Free Range Racing

32 Reply by xtn

  • xtn
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  • Registered: 2009-10-27
  • Posts: 22

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

MurileeMartin wrote:

By the way, to all you guys at MSR who laughed and laughed at the slow-ass Rum Runners Malibu chugging around the track like a cement mixer: 19th place out of 122 entrants! Who gets last laugh now, suckaz?

Exactly right. Must have passed that Malibu thirty or forty times, and didn't really finish all that much higher at 13th with our gti. Consistently turning laps is worth more than any other factor in this race.

xtn

  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

you must finish...to WIN......

my only goal for my 1st Lemons event is to finish the race...  if the car doesn't blow up in spectacular fashion, or only has small issues we can fix fairly quick I will be happy....  I just want the car to be out there long enough that each driver gets a decent amount of seat time.....sure it would be nice to win or place high...but how many teams that consist of 100% rookie Lemons drivers actually win their 1st event.... even I know that answer..NONE

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • jw33
  • jw33
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  • From: America, these colors dont run
  • Registered: 2009-05-09
  • Posts: 221

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

Here's another good tip. Drop the gas tank and clean it out very well. When you start driving these piles of shit faster than usual and throwing them into corners lot of junk gets picked up by the pump and it will end up clogging the fuel filter. This is especially tru on EFI cars with the higher pressure fuel systems. It's also a good idea to blow out the fuel lines with B12 and compressed air to make sure you get all the crap that will get knock loose when you drive the car hard. This problem has bit us in the ass twice now.....

Shake and Bake
America, birthplace of the missionary position. You're welcome...
  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

jw33 wrote:

Here's another good tip. Drop the gas tank and clean it out very well. When you start driving these piles of shit faster than usual and throwing them into corners lot of junk gets picked up by the pump and it will end up clogging the fuel filter. This is especially tru on EFI cars with the higher pressure fuel systems. It's also a good idea to blow out the fuel lines with B12 and compressed air to make sure you get all the crap that will get knock loose when you drive the car hard. This problem has bit us in the ass twice now.....

Very good advice- can't tell you how many Lemons teams have spent an entire race futzing with the fuel system after the crap in the tank gets knocked loose during the first half-hour of racing. The problem tends to be especially bad with cars that sat for a few years before being LeMon-ized.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
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Judge Phil's Lemons posts on Car and Driver
MurileeMartin.com

Judge Phil's Website

36 Reply by Eyesoreracing (edited by Eyesoreracing 2009-11-15 12:57 AM)

  • From: Long Beach
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 232

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

icemang17 wrote:

but how many teams that consist of 100% rookie Lemons drivers actually win their 1st event.... even I know that answer..NONE

Um, well... there was the MetroGnome.... First Lemons race ever, only two drivers, and they won.

But, they had been smart enough to test, test, test for months before the race. And, like every other winner, they got lucky. That's my advice right there. Sure, do everything right, but also be lucky!

-Dave

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

First post has been updated, edited...    Now there should be 20-50 cars on the lead lap at the end of each race

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'
  • Registered: 2009-09-01
  • Posts: 405

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

Dave,

how can a team win with only 2 drivers don't the rules require 4 drivers?

  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

ifb_mole wrote:

Dave,

how can a team win with only 2 drivers don't the rules require 4 drivers?

I was wondering this too

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • sergio
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Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

icemang17 wrote:
ifb_mole wrote:

Dave,

how can a team win with only 2 drivers don't the rules require 4 drivers?

I was wondering this too

Four drivers sign up/pay. Two of them get H1N1, or drafted for a special work project, etc., just before the race. What do you do?

  • Registered: 2009-09-01
  • Posts: 405

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

they should get 2 more drivers or they get DQ'ed, I bet ANY team with "sick drivers at event day" could get additional drivers at the track,no problem.  Everyone else used 4-6 drivers

  • From: Detroit, MI
  • Registered: 2009-05-16
  • Posts: 1,594

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

There is no rule about how many people drive the car.  They could use one driver if they want to.  The rule simply states that your team consists of 4-6 registered drivers.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

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  • Troy
  • Troy
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  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,634

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

Get a driver's education car so two driver's can drive at once.

Hell, get two, weld them together with two front ends, 4 driver's at once.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • Registered: 2009-09-01
  • Posts: 405

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

Jeff,

Doesn't the term registered DRIVERS imply they are to drive and is that not the intention of the rule, that is registered drivers are expected to actually drive the car, seems any team that registers 4+ drivers but only has 2 of them drive is violating the spirit and intent of the rule (i.e cheating)

  • Serj
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  • Registered: 2009-05-02
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Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

ifb_mole wrote:

Jeff,

Doesn't the term registered DRIVERS imply they are to drive and is that not the intention of the rule, that is registered drivers are expected to actually drive the car, seems any team that registers 4+ drivers but only has 2 of them drive is violating the spirit and intent of the rule (i.e cheating)

I wouldn't call it cheating to only have 2 people -actually- drive the car. However, i believe the 'spirit' of the rule is that you have backup drivers if you need them. You don't want one heavily fatigued guy trying to take a nap while the 'other' driver gets black flagged and waved for a driver change. then you'd have a heavily fatigued guy who just did 3hours in the hot seat being mandated to get back out there. that's simply dangerous!

  • From: Detroit, MI
  • Registered: 2009-05-16
  • Posts: 1,594

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

ifb_mole wrote:

Jeff,

Doesn't the term registered DRIVERS imply they are to drive and is that not the intention of the rule, that is registered drivers are expected to actually drive the car, seems any team that registers 4+ drivers but only has 2 of them drive is violating the spirit and intent of the rule (i.e cheating)

Hey, I didn't write the rules.  I am only stating that they didn't cheat per the rules.  I will give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they planned on using four drivers, but something went south.  If it were my team and I had to choose between two known drivers or asking around for unknows to flog my car, I'd do the same thing they did.  It's not like it was a true 24 hour race.  They only had to go 8 hours with two drivers.  That wouldn't be bad at all.  Two hours in the seat with a two hour break would be fine as long as they had some help in the pits.

They obviously did okay since they won, so fatigue must not have made them drive poorly.  If it had, they would have been serving penalties and couldn't have won.

Lemons HQ is happy because they got their extra $200 in fees.  I think you highlighted the wrong word.  HQ likely cares more about "REGISTERED drivers".

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Jeff G 78's Website

  • VKZ24
  • VKZ24
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  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
  • Posts: 1,840

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

Jeff G 78 wrote:

Lemons HQ is happy because they got their extra $200 in fees.  I think you highlighted the wrong word.  HQ likely cares more about "REGISTERED drivers".

I "interpreted" the rule to mean Lemons HQ thinks it would be safer with 4-drivers (due to fatigue) but nonetheless they want the money from all four whether they actually drive ot not.  There is nobody to police who drives how long anyway, but on our team each driver went 2-hours before we swapped.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

VKZ24's Website

  • Registered: 2009-09-01
  • Posts: 405

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

Well I stand corrected gotta remember this tactic if and when we race again. I've also heard a rumor of a team that has installed an additional fuel cell in their car that allows for over 30 gallons of fuel or only ONE pit stop each day. That's a long stint indeed, but you'll only stop once during each day that allows for more track time. The less time in the pits the better your chances of finishing well

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

I've had a request to bump this so it is easier to find.. So here it is.   I will edit as time allows

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'
  • From: Long Beach, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-14
  • Posts: 294

Re: Secrets of the Inner Circle, or how to do well at Lemons

ifb_mole wrote:

Well I stand corrected gotta remember this tactic if and when we race again. I've also heard a rumor of a team that has installed an additional fuel cell in their car that allows for over 30 gallons of fuel or only ONE pit stop each day. That's a long stint indeed, but you'll only stop once during each day that allows for more track time. The less time in the pits the better your chances of finishing well

Also a better chance for driver fatigue and error.

-Kyle
Eyesore Racing
"That's probably wrong, but it's worth a shot."

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