Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

racinrob wrote:

You will want to put roll bar padding on the bar behind the head rest.  That would make for a nasty headache if your head was slammed backwards.


I was thinking the same thing and I will once its cleaned up and painted.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Jay gave us the OK for our new seat head rest support attached to the back brace. Was quick and easy to make out of scrap angle iron.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2zxz6h5.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2w20s9j.jpg

We had to add a hoop behind the fuel cell to brace it against rear end impact, this was made up at the track to pass tech.
http://i50.tinypic.com/a27ok3.jpg

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

That has to be the oldest Kirkey seat (cover) in Lemons.  They never made them "sunset orange".  Took years of exposure to turn their red into that particular shade.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

ebay special smile the seat itself had never been fitted, in great condition, must have sat in the sun somewhere for a long time.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Is this something the are looking for before I go any farther on this?
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/51926_518815918129063_149184520_o.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/522944_518815971462391_6426028_n.jpg

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

As long as that plate is thick enough so the pipe wont impale, that should be plenty enough.  From what I gathered, it does not matter how you support the head rest as long as it's strong and safe. 

If your seat moves forward just make sure that gap does not get too large.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

I'm not trying to criticize anyone, but I am trying to think critically about these and having these poles/posts at critical parts of my body. I think I would rather have a few inches or "decel space" rather than a rigid mounting.

I'd love to see some accident evidence and info on the resulting injuries (real or theoretical with data) before I rigid mount the tops of my seats.

Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Looks good to me.

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59 (edited by psychoboy 2012-10-19 12:54 PM)

Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

spank:

decel space can also be accel space.

if your head is against the seat, and the frame comes to a sudden stop, the space between the seat and the frame CAN allow the seat to "slowly" bend and lesson the impact of your brain against your skull. it can also allow for some whiplash effect and neck injury.

if the seat can't bend, your brain is going to hit your skull at a relatively faster speed, but you're less likely to suffer neck injuries.

i'm of the opinion that a small enough space to prevent neck injury does little to slow the brain, and a large enough space to slow the brain does nothing to prevent neck injury.

given the choice between a broken neck and a concussion....i'm going to pick concussion.


it's a trade off for sure.  and my opinions are based on nothing other than a general understanding of physics and biology....i'll gladly defer to someone who has more knowledge of either subject.


all that being said, looking at the pics just above (and the ECR mustang crash)....i would NEVER point a post at my skull, spine, or any other part of my body. i don't care how soft you make it, how thick the plate is, or anything else. find a tubing bender, bend a U, and run that tube laterally behind your headrest as closely as your choice above dictates.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Now you got me thinking about our seat back brace...  it has an impaler ..

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

solman244 wrote:

We lucked out with the CRX.  Our backstays terminate literally at the rear edge of the rear tires.  If I switch to smaller tires I think it would fail.  Jay almost failed us until he eyeballed the alignment and noticed we were within an half inch of the rear of the tires.

They are not failing anyone for this yet are they?  It is a 2013 rule correct?

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

socal.colin wrote:
solman244 wrote:

We lucked out with the CRX.  Our backstays terminate literally at the rear edge of the rear tires.  If I switch to smaller tires I think it would fail.  Jay almost failed us until he eyeballed the alignment and noticed we were within an half inch of the rear of the tires.

They are not failing anyone for this yet are they?  It is a 2013 rule correct?

I'm not sure if Jay was thinking about failing us, or was just going to give us a "don't come back like this" talking to.  The conversation was a bit disjointed because he started a sentence with "Did I talk to you about..."  stopped, looked at the rear stay plates in reference to the rear tires and then finished with "...nevermind, the rear edge of your rear stays are even with the rear of your tires."
Since I was sweating two cars through tech with the same seat brace issue, I was just happy he stopped talking.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Every time I've heard that discussion it has ended with fix it before the next race.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Cool, yeah I need to talk to Jay and John at the race about what to do with the spitwad for 2013. Assuming its still alive after this race.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Another purpose of a seat back brace is to keep the seat from moving side to side. That's why, even though it's a PITA at adjustment time, I prefer a real seat back brace which connects the seat to the cage.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

socal.colin wrote:

Now you got me thinking about our seat back brace...  it has an impaler ..


Spank correctly points out the benefit that would be conferred by having a physical restraint system that would accomodate the driver body's displacement in a controlled fashion, that allowed for the rapid distribution of force in a uniform manner, away from the head and neck. Sort of a crumple zone that comprised the seat and seat support. But there is nothing to 'slow the brain' during rapid deceleration since the brain box (helmeted head) is traveling through empty space immediately after a collision. The head will be slowed by either 1)the deceleration force applied by the neck or 2)the deceleration force applied by whatever the head hits.    The rapid deceleration of the brain within the skull is what leads to the most serious head injury patterns and diminishing the force of this "second impact" is of paramount importance in the science of safety in high kinetic energy sports. Indeed, the leading cause of death in motor racing is rapid deceleration of the head and neck that leads to either direct impact forces (brain suspended inside skull slamming against the inside of the skull) or shearing forces between two adjacent anatomical structures (brain and its arteries, two cervical vertebrae.)   I would be very interested to see if any racing seat has been designed to structurally deform in such a way as to provide the controlled decelerative benefit that Spank alludes to.

That being said, preventing headrest failure is likely more specifically an issue of cervical spine protection, as Scotty said on page 1. Failure of the headrest could potentially cause hyperextension of the cervical spine which-while often not as ominous and potentially devastating as a hyperflexion injury-can be fatal or paralyzing. The use of a HANS-type device should mitigate this risk but not completely eliminate it since the posterior deflection of the head could also deflect the HANS if the belts failed or came free of the lips on the device during a collision. It seems to me the safest circumstance for the driver's neck would be to prevent that posterior deflection in the first place, by preventing rearward failure of the headrest. And use of a HANS-type device, like bigds01 pointed out.

As for the fear of impaling your heads and spines on your seat supports, that is a question of metallurgy and beyond my understanding. Seems to me, though, your support arms could be made either 1)extremely broad, across the entire width of the seat or 2)'H' or 'Y' shaped (a la BigShabowski) such that the arms do not terminate directly behind the driver's midline.

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

What this makes perfectly clear is that we would all be better if we were as brainless as we often seem. No brain = no brain slamming/shearing.

Think about it. Oh wait... smile

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Re: Tech Inspections - Serious Bidness

Mulry wrote:

What this makes perfectly clear is that we would all be better if we were as brainless as we often seem. No brain = no brain slamming/shearing.

Think about it. Oh wait... smile

I carry my brain just below my belt bucklet.  Damned five-point harnesses...

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