Upcoming Chump Race (Page 2 of 3)

Mid October could be very nice or cold and rainy/snowy.  I'm much more worried about the Gingerman race in mid April.  There is a very good chance of crappy weather that early in the year.

The open blend of silly and serious at Lemons is pretty sublime. After experiencing it, I'm not sure home much more serious I'd like to get - I'm completely thrilled with the fact that I can race the way my team chooses and enjoy it so much more for that. It's quite wonderful.

Yes, snow tyres in reserve for the April GingerMan event. The MI VW club has tried to run that weekend a few times, and had to exercise our "snow date" clause. We'll be ready.

i can't imagine any track owner allowing studded snow tires on their surface.

Tim,

Thanks for the report on Chump.

I understand what you are saying about Chump admin coming into the Lemons forum but it doesn't bother me that much.  I think this is kinda like NASA to the SCCA.  They could make fictitious user names so I think it's better to be up front and honest.

I do appreciate the fact that the administrators for Lemons have allowed the discussion about Chump in this forum.  I consider it very rude and disrespectful when they refer to Lemons as "the other race" on the Chump forum.  Especially when Chump "has it's roots in Lemons."  Show some respect.

Since Chump is rooted in Lemons and marketed to the same audience.  The rules are very similar. 

Some notable differences are window net requirements and catch cans.  Jay's opinion on window nets is they cause more trouble than they save.  Obviously John likes them since Chump requires them.

John/Chump does not allow shared helmets.  Everyone I have raced with has their own helmet but a lot of teams try to cut costs by sharing equipment.  With the new fueling requirements, you need a few full sets of gear anyway.

Chump has a 2x OEM Brake and Wheel limit.  I don't think it is really a significant limit but they have one.  I was hoping to see a brake minimum and some kind of inspection.  Most DE tech sheets have some form of brake check and requirement but not Crap Can racing.

This is strictly my opinion, I feel it is a matter of time before there is a accident due to a brake failure.  I was not aware of too many serious brake failures at the recent MSR race.  I have heard of plenty of blown lines and calipers in other races and even a couple of fires due to brakes.

Teams skimping on brakes to save money puts everyone around them at risk.

On a positive note, Chump seems to have put on a successful event.  This gives us more opportunities to race and Chump offers more true 24 hour races.  This is way more hard core to me and much more challenging. 

You think holding a crap can together for 6-8 hours than having 12 hours to tape it back up is hard.  Try going 24 hours straight with no duct tape and bailing wire break at night.

Amidst Chump's desire for thorough inspections and no cheating, there were people whining "cheater."  So I don't think there will ever be a race that someone isn't going to assume a team with a better car isn't cheating. 

In the end, reliability and good driving will get you much farther up in the standings than speed.  However, we are intellectually challenged Z people and we are determine to go fast.  Someday they will lead us away with men in white coats or we might win.

Troy,
I have not had a bad day on track yet.  My first 2 driver training days I broke my dd's.  First was an accord wagon that lost an exhaust valve, second was a C4 that lost engine and transmission seals and made a mess on the track.  third one I drove the P71 and no issues!  The brake pads I ran were NAPA severe duty ceramic fleet pads.  They lasted 2 Lemons races with no apparent wear, then went away after a mere 12 hours on the track.  Rear pads went metal to metal with 15 minutes left.  So, I'm stepping up to  edit - performance friction - pads because they will build pads for anything and only take 2-3 days.  I have spent a lot of hours wrenching and hammering in a carport to change an old P71 into a fine racing machine (LOL).   I didn't think the 24 hour format would make as much difference to reliability  And you are right, the good drivers on my team had consistent and faster times than I did.  I'm working on it.  As team cptain I could assign myself any shift I wanted.  I took 0200-0400.  I had fog and the temp drop through the dew point.  I wasn't sure I had the internal fortitude to drive so I got a chance to find out.    My lap times were inconsistant but it was an adventure filled stint. 
Tim

Hey Tim...carbotech is offering prebedded pads for $20 more...we went this route after trying to bed in some regular carbotech pads at Reno...the instructions said to brake hard until fade...well, we had them smokin' but could not make them fade!  Anyway, we are trying the prebedded  xp10's at TH stay tuned.

I like your attitude Tim.  Reading this made me smile.  Thanks.

-Ryan

quoted for truth.  and not just in crap can racing.

Troy, I'll bet there would be more fires from upgraded brake systems in crapcans than with well-sorted stock brakes....a stock system would boil the fluid and as the pedal softens, the driver will pit, slow down or both....use racing pads and racing fluid and the brakes work at much higher temperatures....and crapcans will have leaky grease seals, ball joint/tie rod end grease fittings, power steering fluid, etc. and oily grime in general....you could stop the issues by requiring stock brakes and NAPA/Checker/Autozone heavy duty pads only....drivers will learn to conserve brakes or spend lots of time in the pits....besides, if safety is the issue, why allow mods that let a driver go deeper into the corner and brake later?

Ha! True enough.....a rule like that would favour lighter cars.....but the really interesting IOE cars don't have performance options anyway....can't do much with a '59 Caddy....and the good thing about stock brakes is that they go away gradually enough to send a message to the nut behind the wheel....who'll just have to relax for a lap or two then set you up for the dive bomb...

Jim,

Of the two brake fires I know of:

    Tunachuckers: blown line probably due to dry rot
         **** turns out fire was not brake related: see Jonny's post
    Free Range: worn out pads. 

Both were from negligence due to a lack of inspection.

I check my brakes before each race and usually each night on two day race weekends.

My brakes use more current yet stock parts from various Zs.  My front pads, Porterfield R4s, have 4 races on them.  They have probably got more than 50% of the pads left.  I upgraded the rears to R4-1s after the first race to improve the bias.  They have 3 races.  All my rotors and pads look great.

I run Valvoline Synpower brake fluid.  They have no noticeable fade.  I do bleed them more than I probably need to but I haven't had to do anything else to them.  I take that back, I replaced a pinched stainless flex line.

My friends 240Z with more or less stock hydraulics, good pads and good fluid, should have been adjusted Saturday night.

Stainless lines can more easily handle heat from repeated use of racing.  Twenty year old rubber lines probably won't even pass inspection in some states like say Missouri.  They shouldn't be on your Crap Can.

Regarding brake temperature, I just called Porterfield about this. 

Brake temperature is a result of the use and frequency.

A pad needs to match the operating temperature of the brakes.  Race pads are not the cause of the heat in your system, they are just designed to work at the temperature of the system.

Brake Pads and Max Operating Temps:

   Street Pad good to about            600 degrees.
   R4S good to about                     900-1000 degrees           
   R4 good to about                       1200-1300 degrees

Cars with rear drum brakes are likely to get out of adjustment during a race.  Especially since most adjusters work by backing up or through the parking brake.

Econoboxs like Cavaliers have had a recorded history in Lemons of melting caliper seals.

I've smoked the best crap Wagner sells for my Maxima with two hard back to back stops. 

FYI, Porterfield uses ceramic as a heat insulator.

I am sorry about my harshness.  I am tired of the typical perceptions about our brakes demands and what we are doing.  We are really racing and street pads are not made for it.  Some will take it better than other.

Yes race pads cost more, in my case they seem to be holding up very well.  In the long run I think they will last for more races which will make the less expensive.

you know what? I have a comment about brakes, but I'm not posting it here seeing as we're getting away from the ChumpRace topic itself.