• From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Topic: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Just so we're all clear... Judge Murilee and I thought this whole bribe thing up when we were first judges way back at the very first CMP race. Rather than let accusations of unfairness fly, we decided to go ahead and pre-emotively be crooked judges. We would accept cash bribes and in return we'd spray paint "bribed" on your car. That way no one could accuse of anything since we're admitting that we can be bought. Plus it's fun.

The above was partly inspired by the stereotype of the crooked Southern judge, and partly inspired by a judge that once relieved me of a whole lot of cash in Mississippi. Also, Jay thought it was real funny.

And that's about as much thought as we put into it. 

What it's turned into, however, is a nice way for the two of us to bring home a couple bottles of good booze, and a veritable liquor bonanza for the tech inspectors and corner workers, as 95% of the alcohol gets left at the track (note to you California teams -- we take most of it home).

So... it's sort of like a tip. Or something. And, as anyone that's handed us $100 worth of booze and still been slapped with 35 laps will tell you, bribing doesn't do very much.

Also -- cash is still king.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Austin, TX
  • Registered: 2009-06-30
  • Posts: 43

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

What drove the need for this clarification?  Was there some "whining" going on?

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  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

phatcashenglish wrote:

What drove the need for this clarification?  Was there some "whining" going on?

There's a thread going on in another post about mandatory bribes for tech inspectors -- which totally ain't kosher.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Pleasanton, CA
  • Registered: 2009-09-02
  • Posts: 352

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

And without the "tip", what will happen? ;-)

We've been brewing a special batch since September.  Hope you guys enjoy it at Thunderhill.

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  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Nothing happens. The bribes don't do anything. OK, well, if you have a 100 lap penalty, the bribe might knock it down to 50. Maybe.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Pleasanton, CA
  • Registered: 2009-09-02
  • Posts: 352

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

No disrespect, of course, but as a rookie coming into the next race, it seems that if you roll in with a perfectly legitimate $500 crapcan without any sort of a bribe, you're going to get smacked with some BS laps. 

That's cool, and as a team that doesn't plan on doing anything but trying to survive, we'll be delivering a bribe just to be in the "spirit" of Lemons. 

Getting a "bribed" stencil is almost a badge of honor. 

And by no means do I disagree with your point on bribing legit tech inspectors...  I hope what they're saying in the other thread isn't true.

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  • From: WOOTville USA
  • Registered: 2009-05-06
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Everyone I talk to about Lemons who is new to the fun gets "penalty box" and "tech/safety inspection" confused with "B.S. inspection".

Just like in real life, bribes have to be carefully applied at the right time in the right environment to the right people. Otherwise you are doubly screwed...

How a bout a big "DUMBASS" or "Red-Handed" stencil for those who get it wrong?

Or make the offenders do a spelling bee on the hood for the word "Dummkopf" with sheet-metal screws and a cheap screwdriver?

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  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

craznoe wrote:

No disrespect, of course, but as a rookie coming into the next race, it seems that if you roll in with a perfectly legitimate $500 crapcan without any sort of a bribe, you're going to get smacked with some BS laps.

This is totally, absolutely, unequivocally 100% false.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Bloomington, IN
  • Registered: 2009-08-14
  • Posts: 1,525

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

craznoe wrote:

No disrespect, of course, but as a rookie coming into the next race, it seems that if you roll in with a perfectly legitimate $500 crapcan without any sort of a bribe, you're going to get smacked with some BS laps..

If it's a legitimate $500, you shouldn't have to worry.  But it can depend on what kind of car it is.  If you show up with an E30, 944, miata, etc, it may take more to "convince" them, but it can be done.  I watched a miata go through bs in front of us with no bs laps at all.If you have a car like that, a bribe can help.  If you show up with a 2005 Mini Cooper S, there's no amount of bribe that can get rid of bs laps.

craznoe wrote:

And by no means do I disagree with your point on bribing legit tech inspectors...  I hope what they're saying in the other thread isn't true.

The tech inspectors don't get bribed, and wouldn't take it if offered.  They are part of the serious safety aspect.  They are there to make sure we all stay as safe as we can.  And they do their job very well.

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  • From: Detroit, MI
  • Registered: 2009-05-16
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

BS bribes are kinda like themes.  Some teams go all out with "parade float" cars while others come with no theme at all.  Bribes go the same way.  Some teams have a lot of fun with the bribes and see what they can get away with during BS while other teams play it by the book and don't need to bribe.  It's all part of the fun.   

We did the "smart" thing and brought a Z.  Bribes? We don nee no steenkin bribes!

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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

I consider Bribing more or less Tipping. 

In all seriousness, I consider Jonny and Phil an integral part of what makes Lemons work.  The BS inspections are fun.  Some penalties can suck more than others but the whole point is to keep everyone safe.

Simple rule for black flags: if you car looks out of control and you get caught, you're getting a penalty.  This is why complete beginners with absolutely no door-to-door experience get a chance to race.  Try getting behind the wheel in SCCA or NASA.  It takes way more then $50 and a form.

Tech Inspections: you have to pass.  Some areas might have some room for interpretation but it all has to be safe.

Troy

#35 LRE
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Here's my perspective on the bribes: keep it fun, but it doesn't make any difference.

We gave a case of very tasty Shiner Commemerator beer and a big pack of Twizzlers. While Jonny was duly appreciative, I don't for a minute think it influenced his decision to give our car zero laps. Our conversation went something like this:

Jonny: Pretty stiff suspension.

Me: Yeah, we sold our crappy used shocks and bought some slightly less crappy adjustable shocks and some used mini sprint car springs.

Jonny: Let's look at the engine. Looks like the stock motor.

Me: Yeah. Nothing's changed since last time except the oil.

Jonny: You know these things blow up in Lemons, right?

Me: Like the one we blew up at Nelson? Yeah, I'm familiar with that. I just hope all our drivers get a ride before it dies.

Jonny: Good luck with that. You're hosed. Zero laps, now get the hell out of here!

Considering that we did a total of 18 laps in the race, the lack of penalty seemed fitting.

If you show up with a crappy car -- that is, a legit $500 crapwagon -- then you're not going to get hit with a penalty either way. The judges may make you sweat it a little more, but it's not to worry. If you show up with a Spec Miata and a book full of receipts and a build diary, it's clear that no bribe will get you out of BS Inspection with less than 50 laps.

Remember, Lemons is all about having fun and adapting to the challenges that come with racing cars that are on the precipice of failure until they take the plunge all the way. The bribes are in that spirit. Have fun! Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

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  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Well said, Troy

Corrupt Judges and Lemons go together like Troy and Duct Tape!

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Portland, OR
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 201

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Did I hear someone say 'just the tip'?

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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

davisriley wrote:

If you show up with a 2005 Mini Cooper S, there's no amount of bribe that can get rid of bs laps.

While the Mini will have to be crushed due to some title issue and is more or less worthless, they kind of missed the point. 

They had some safety issues, like a kill switch attached to a piece of plastic hanging by a zip tie and the inability to open the window net.

In the Theme/Bribe department, they got that part right on the money and they seemed like good guys who had a great weekend.  I hope to see them again.

Troy

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  • Registered: 2009-05-01
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Does my malibu need to bribe? No....

Did we give away some Rum, T-shirts and Rum cake to the judges... Yes...

Its our way of saying Thinks and Welcome to Texas. I do not believe the Judges are going to look the other way on a obvious cheater of the $500 rule for a bottle of booze & T-shirt.

Its obvious who gets the whole "24hrs of Lemons" concept and who doesnt.

1980 Chevy Malibu Classic
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Rumrunner, I did not mean to hurt your cars feelings asking why it got branded "Bribed." 

Underneath all, and I do mean allll, that flat blacked sheet metal lies a true beast.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 66

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Troy wrote:

Rumrunner, I did not mean to hurt your cars feelings asking why it got branded "Bribed." 

Underneath all, and I do mean allll, that flat blacked sheet metal lies a true beast.

LOL..No worries, I know you were kidding around.

I just had to tell the car later you were teasing. She thinks she is a Ferrari. rofl

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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Rumrunner wrote:

She thinks she is a Ferrari. rofl

Well, don't give here a mirror.

Troy

#35 LRE
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  • From: Portland
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 568

Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Troy wrote:
davisriley wrote:

If you show up with a 2005 Mini Cooper S, there's no amount of bribe that can get rid of bs laps.

While the Mini will have to be crushed due to some title issue and is more or less worthless, they kind of missed the point. 

They had some safety issues, like a kill switch attached to a piece of plastic hanging by a zip tie and the inability to open the window net.

In the Theme/Bribe department, they got that part right on the money and they seemed like good guys who had a great weekend.  I hope to see them again.

You have their contact info?  I'd love to have that motor before it gets crushed... My MINI would love a rebuild

Matt
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  • From: Davis, Ca
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Judge Jonny wrote:
phatcashenglish wrote:

What drove the need for this clarification?  Was there some "whining" going on?

There's a thread going on in another post about mandatory bribes for tech inspectors -- which totally ain't kosher.

Tech inspectors don't take bribes, period.  Taping a $50 over a birdshit cage weld will not help, We will make sure, to the best of our abilities, that your car complies to our safety rules.   Read the rules and build your car to them, simple. 

   Now, sometimes at the end of the race, Johnny and Murilee will deign to let us choose from the un-claimed bribes. if we're suitably deferential and stand at attention every time they are nearby...

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  • From: Automation Alley
  • Registered: 2009-07-14
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

We had a shit car, some homebrew limoncello, and a bunch of Loctite. The bribes were good for getting a bribed stencil, which we were completely thrilled with. We got a big fat 0 laps for having a solidly crappy car.

I did feel bad for my friends with the red ACR. That thing was truly a pile of you-know-what, and they still got a bunch of laps.

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23 Reply by Jer

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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Judge Jonny wrote:
craznoe wrote:

No disrespect, of course, but as a rookie coming into the next race, it seems that if you roll in with a perfectly legitimate $500 crapcan without any sort of a bribe, you're going to get smacked with some BS laps.

This is totally, absolutely, unequivocally 100% false.

Agreed.  When we roll up in the rolled, still bone stock corolla, we don't bother with a bribe and the judges send us on through (knowing we'll blow it up or roll it again anyway).  You do not need a bribe if you bring a legitimate crapcan through.

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  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

Jer wrote:
Judge Jonny wrote:
craznoe wrote:

No disrespect, of course, but as a rookie coming into the next race, it seems that if you roll in with a perfectly legitimate $500 crapcan without any sort of a bribe, you're going to get smacked with some BS laps.

This is totally, absolutely, unequivocally 100% false.

Agreed.  When we roll up in the rolled, still bone stock corolla, we don't bother with a bribe and the judges send us on through (knowing we'll blow it up or roll it again anyway).  You do not need a bribe if you bring a legitimate crapcan through.

Even if you bring a spec Miata, you don't NEED a bribe.

Totally optional.

By the way, no Spec Miata team has ever thought to bribe us...

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

25 Reply by Jer (edited by Jer 2009-10-27 12:20 PM)

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Re: Let's clear up this bribes thing

I brought a Miata (not a spec) last race, but it was legit.  We bribed just to reduce the number of hoops we thought we might have to jump through to get to zero laps.  The car finished 108th.  sad

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2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

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