The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?
As we are getting deep in to the prep of our Mercedes Slush-box equipped Porsche for TH and other teams are asking for wagers, I realized that I don't know the winning percentage of Slipply-slidy autos at Lemons...
didn't the BMW win at altamont a couple years ago with a slushbox?
didn't the BMW win at altamont a couple years ago with a slushbox?
please correct me if i am wrong, but i believe the first BMW to win a Lemons race was this April at CMP. might have been a IOE win at Altamont.
This is the first BMW to win a Lemons race, in the Oct 2007 Altamont event. Hard to identify with the body cut off, but it's an E28. You can see the clutch pedal in the photos from the race, so definitely a manual transmission.
As far as I know, an automatic-equipped car has never taken the overall win at a Lemons race. Who cares about that lame trophy, though- you should be shooting for the Index Of Effluency, which has been won by numerous automatics.
While I prefer racing a Manual. We have torn up a couple of transmissions and been through a couple of clutches. This is pretty much all driver error.
I plan to get together an old rear driver Celica and it's an automatic. Even with me Manual preference, I plan to leave the Automatic. It will be easier for beginners to drive. I am just going to use an old A/C condenser for a tranny cooler.
As long as you can keep an auto cool, I think it will be okay.
Besides, how easy is it to find a manual for a 928?
The old Malibu of ours is a Automatic. We have one driver who can not drive a manuel.
Our old car will never win a Lemons race....but she just keeps making laps. We have a $40 trans cooler installed on ours.
An automatic car could win Lemons, but the super-smooth drivers who always win the race- you know, those guys you passed again and again, right before you spun out for the 4th time- tend to prefer manuals.
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/galle … c790_o.jpg
This is the first BMW to win a Lemons race, in the Oct 2007 Altamont event. Hard to identify with the body cut off, but it's an E28. You can see the clutch pedal in the photos from the race, so definitely a manual transmission.
As far as I know, an automatic-equipped car has never taken the overall win at a Lemons race. Who cares about that lame trophy, though- you should be shooting for the Index Of Effluency, which has been won by numerous automatics.
Until the prize money is bigger, and the awards ceremony focuses more on IOE......... (which I suggested to Jay)......
Besides, how easy is it to find a manual for a 928?
Not so easy, most 928s were auto and I think the unibody is actually different, as there is a huge bump in the tunnel for the torque converter behind the seats (its on the front of the transaxle) You can convert auto to manual,but you have to weld in the mounts for the clutch pedal, etc. We actually have another $250 928, a 79 with the 4.5 CIS (k-Jet) and a 5 speed. It was pre-stripped and is a light, non-sunroof early car. The PO was going to do a Chevy conversion for autocrossing and had the motor out and the interior completely removed. We were going to run it,but with missing injection components and k-jet, we moved on when the 84 became available. We also didn't feel like swapping the L-jet motor into the 79, we're lazy! There's also the fact that the 79 is just too pretty, nice paint and perfect body.... We show up with that and the proletariat will start howling, the pitchforks will come out and we'll be BSd or crushed.
If the auto pukes, we'll be back with a 5 speed
Troy wrote:Besides, how easy is it to find a manual for a 928?
If the auto pukes, we'll be back with a 5 speed
Like John said its not hard when another $250 5 speed is sitting at the shop...BUT that car will take much more work to get running.....& is awfully pretty for a Lemons race... :>(
The automatics in 928's are built by Mercedes the 722.3 model...so they are well known to be quite strong....& benz used them forever until the late 90's even in their AMG models.....
BUT I have heard of 928's blowing up transmissions....mostly due to low fluid and guessing at the overall lack of care this 928 shows.....it remains to be seen if the tranny will last....
only time will tell
The old Malibu of ours is a Automatic. We have one driver who can not drive a manuel.
One of the gals on the Biturbo team two years ago didn't know how to drive stick. She learned on the track, under green flag, in her first stint. So tell your dude to step up!
EVERYONE told me that the 700-R4 in our car would blow up. WE changed the filter, added a cheap trans cooler, and no issues. If it was holding us back I doubt it was holding us back much!
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/galle … c790_o.jpg
This is the first BMW to win a Lemons race, in the Oct 2007 Altamont event. Hard to identify with the body cut off, but it's an E28. You can see the clutch pedal in the photos from the race, so definitely a manual transmission.
As far as I know, an automatic-equipped car has never taken the overall win at a Lemons race. Who cares about that lame trophy, though- you should be shooting for the Index Of Effluency, which has been won by numerous automatics.
i stand corrected. BTW what is the general opinion of the E28s as a Lemons car Your Honor? we have an '82 waiting for its build sometime around the middle of 2010. hopefully in time for PBIR. just wondering about the Noch Einer thing and all. 
EVERYONE told me that the 700-R4 in our car would blow up. WE changed the filter, added a cheap trans cooler, and no issues. If it was holding us back I doubt it was holding us back much!
wait for it...wait for it...
BTW what is the general opinion of the E28s as a Lemons car Your Honor? we have an '82 waiting for its build sometime around the middle of 2010. hopefully in time for PBIR. just wondering about the Noch Einer thing and all.
We have no problem with E28s.
Rumrunner wrote:The old Malibu of ours is a Automatic. We have one driver who can not drive a manuel.
One of the gals on the Biturbo team two years ago didn't know how to drive stick. She learned on the track, under green flag, in her first stint. So tell your dude to step up!
Yeah...
If and when we decide to try another ride I will push for a manuel. We actually found a Saturn SC2 that went through the Hurricane and was a flood car for $200. Its a auto, but has no reverse. It runs pretty good but the trans is suspect. Who knows we might give that car a whirl.
So, it seems that automatics are 0 for 18? I'm surprised. With 99% of Americans driving automatics, it seems that at least one would have made to the pinnacle of auto racing..winning at Lemons.
We are putting a huge cooler on ours...
Tiptoe the rat wrote:EVERYONE told me that the 700-R4 in our car would blow up. WE changed the filter, added a cheap trans cooler, and no issues. If it was holding us back I doubt it was holding us back much!
wait for it...wait for it...
Well I heard a bang outside, about two hours after my post.... you guessed it the trans blew up in the Camaro. DOH!! Can I get a lower residual value now?
MurileeMartin wrote:http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/galle … c790_o.jpg
This is the first BMW to win a Lemons race, in the Oct 2007 Altamont event. Hard to identify with the body cut off, but it's an E28. You can see the clutch pedal in the photos from the race, so definitely a manual transmission.
As far as I know, an automatic-equipped car has never taken the overall win at a Lemons race. Who cares about that lame trophy, though- you should be shooting for the Index Of Effluency, which has been won by numerous automatics.
Until the prize money is bigger, and the awards ceremony focuses more on IOE......... (which I suggested to Jay)......
According to what I heard at the Houston awards ceremony - IOE will be the top money prize starting next year. I've always thought it was the real prize anyway, or I would have brought a good car.
IOE is the real prize. Don't be surprised to see IOE pay more nickels than the overall win next year.
Like anyone is actually racing for the nickels.
We tried to avoid auto trans failure in the Mark VIII over three races with a large cooler and staying locked in 2nd. We're switching to a 5 speed for February at CMP, so no matter what happens, it won't be the Lincoln to break this auto winless streak.
I guess this means I need to step up my game in the Buick.
The Covair won IOE at Stafford with a 2-speed PowerGlide. We flogged that bitch!
We tried to avoid auto trans failure in the Mark VIII over three races with a large cooler and staying locked in 2nd. We're switching to a 5 speed for February at CMP, so no matter what happens, it won't be the Lincoln to break this auto winless streak.
Watching your video from the fall CMP race I was wondering if the car was stuck in a gear or something. I could tell you were running it to redline down the front straight and then it seemed like it ran out of steam...or revs. No wonder the headgasket let go!
We are bringing our first 5 speed to T-Hill.
The 3T40/TH125 automatic has been a weak point throughout. Even beefed up with valve body changes and 'locked up all the time' torque converter, we've killed three transmissions in the Cavalier since 2007. They've never failed to a 'can't drive' state, but after the 4th place at Detroit '07 it had to be driven onto the trailer, since it wouldn't roll at all even in neutral.
The thing with LeMony automatics is the shift frequency. Every shift puts heat into the clutches/bands that takes time to remove, and these tracks are too tight for the most part to give enough time to recover. Lots of cooler helps, but there's usually no way to remove heat from the clutches fast enough.
So set your transmission up to shift just short of driveshaft breaking hardness and don't allow it to shift too many times per lap. If you have a way to lock the torque converter all the time, do it, since that keeps the converter from adding heat to the fluid and limiting the torque multiplication during shifts helps the clutches survive.
I think an American RWD 3-speed (904-727/TH350-400/C4-6) can be set up to live forever in racing conditions, but I don't hold much hope for any of the Borg-Warner or ZF Euro transmissions...
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Our Crappy Race → Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?