• From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

X-args wrote:

We are bringing our first 5 speed to T-Hill.

The thing with LeMony automatics is the shift frequency. Every shift puts heat into the clutches/bands that takes time to remove, and these tracks are too tight for the most part to give enough time to recover. Lots of cooler helps, but there's usually no way to remove heat from the clutches fast enough.

So set your transmission up to shift just short of driveshaft breaking hardness and don't allow it to shift too many times per lap. If you have a way to lock the torque converter all the time, do it, since that keeps the converter from adding heat to the fluid and limiting the torque multiplication during shifts helps the clutches survive.

I think an American RWD 3-speed (904-727/TH350-400/C4-6) can be set up to live forever in racing conditions, but I don't hold much hope for any of the Borg-Warner or ZF Euro transmissions...

Good stuff... How do I set engagement on my lexus trans? I can get it to hold gear by manually shifting it, but it feels odd to do so. I also locked out the OD and put a second cooler on it but not sure what to do from there.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • X-args
  • X-args
  • May Have Raced Your Car
  • Offline
  • From: East Bay, CA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 736

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

Lexus RWD? If you can figure out what trans it is you may find some tuner doodz? who can help you to program the trans controller. You basically want a bunch more shift pressure and a bit more steady line pressure, though from a quick spin through the aftermarket, Toyota shift kits appear to be budget busters.

Maybe a transmission manual would be the budget way to go, then you can figure out what accumulator springs you need to shim and play around with it.

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 144 races and counting.
2/25/24
  • From: Houston TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-11
  • Posts: 181

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

LOL

One of our hamfisted drivers broke our mustang manual 2nd gear the first hour of the race.  Upon teardown, a transmission experienced friend told me he had never seen one break like that before....some sort of retainer ring broke in half!  So while manuals are better for road racing it doesn't mean you are not going to have failures...

The newer cars are going to a "manual-matic" sort of thing with basically like a hybrid between the two and paddle shifters, although it will be a while before these are lemon=budgeted!

----------
Scott
Speed Racer Mach5 Mustang
Houston TX
  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

X-args wrote:

Lexus RWD? If you can figure out what trans it is you may find some tuner doodz™ who can help you to program the trans controller. You basically want a bunch more shift pressure and a bit more steady line pressure, though from a quick spin through the aftermarket, Toyota shift kits appear to be budget busters.

Maybe a transmission manual would be the budget way to go, then you can figure out what accumulator springs you need to shim and play around with it.

Thanks for the info, though I admit you are speaking partially Greek to me... I've had a lifelong aversion to Automatics, and thus know practically nothing about them. I have  a manual, full of diagrams of little ant homes, but am hopeless beyond that! Finding somebody local that can hot rod a Lexus trans is prolly a hopeless case though!

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

I'm optimistic that the benz tranny should last a while......key word is "should" we took a good look at it this weekend, and gave it some fresh fluid....& the old fluid didn't look bad either...so I hope it lasts for a bit.....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • From: Olympia, WA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 210

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

We keep on hoping we can be the first auto to win a Lemons race.  We have never had a problem with our transmission and I would like to thank the Chrysler engineers that came up with the 727 Torqueflite transmission for it.

Team Oly Express
Current car - 1964.5 Plymouth Barracuda, Former car - Size Does Matter 1967 Plymouth Fury
07 IOE Winner Thunderhill, 12 IOE Winner Sears Pointless
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Team- … 4609354407
  • From: Toronto, Ontario
  • Registered: 2009-05-03
  • Posts: 1,114

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

rocketresto wrote:

We keep on hoping we can be the first auto to win a Lemons race.  We have never had a problem with our transmission and I would like to thank the Chrysler engineers that came up with the 727 Torqueflite transmission for it.

IMHO the most likely slushbox to survive would be a Chryco A-727 followed by an A-904. You can also find these in AMC cars. Tough, and they have a special secret: they don't need engine vacuum! If you can bodge a manual valve body mod you should be able to make GM units work too. Don't know about Ford, except I once tried to race a C4 Mustang, but it ended in a cloud of white smoke... All of 'em like lots of cooling.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....
  • Riktor
  • Riktor
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,138

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

AndyDenver wrote:

Somebody needs to push a Powerglide to glory.

Two speeds means less little bits to go wrong!

And with what? A 1:1 rear end?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • X-args
  • X-args
  • May Have Raced Your Car
  • Offline
  • From: East Bay, CA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 736

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

The '64 Buick Special that I drove in the Reno race started with a TH350 that burned 2nd on Saturday, followed by a late night swap back to the car's original Super Turbine 300- which despite the name, is a 2-speed not unlike, but not related, to the Powerglide. I can say that with a Switch-Pitch torque converter it actually was about as fast as the 3-speed.

But of course we finished 4th at Detroit '07 with a car that was stuck in 3rd gear, on a short track. That post-race fluid flowed like water and looked like death, and when we took it apart we found that the direct clutch was WELDED together by its own heat...

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 144 races and counting.
2/25/24
  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/07/504x_Corvair-SmokeyBurnout.jpg

We've already had a Powerglide-equipped car. Won the IOE at New England, in fact.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
Murilee Martin on Twitter
Judge Phil's Lemons posts on Car and Driver
MurileeMartin.com

Judge Phil's Website

  • From: Toronto, Ontario
  • Registered: 2009-05-03
  • Posts: 1,114

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

X-args wrote:

The '64 Buick Special that I drove in the Reno race started with a TH350 that burned 2nd on Saturday, followed by a late night swap back to the car's original Super Turbine 300- which despite the name, is a 2-speed not unlike, but not related, to the Powerglide. I can say that with a Switch-Pitch torque converter it actually was about as fast as the 3-speed.

But of course we finished 4th at Detroit '07 with a car that was stuck in 3rd gear, on a short track. That post-race fluid flowed like water and looked like death, and when we took it apart we found that the direct clutch was WELDED together by its own heat...

Loved the Buick...especially the Kennedy For President bumper sticker...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

37 Reply by Bonedriver (edited by Bonedriver 2009-11-03 01:57 AM)

  • From: Charleston, SC
  • Registered: 2009-08-08
  • Posts: 466

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

MurileeMartin wrote:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/07/504x_Corvair-SmokeyBurnout.jpg

We've already had a Powerglide-equipped car. Won the IOE at New England, in fact.

Holy Crap!!! That's me behind the Corvair!!! Wow... didn't know black mechanic's gloves were so sliming... hehehehe

____________________________________
Always running on E \ ' ' ' ' F 
Speedycop and the Gang of Outlaws Official Ten+ Time Loser
Owner #132 Lancia/Toyota Beta/MR2 Scorpion

Bonedriver's Website

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

An automatic-equipped car very nearly won the October '07 Altamont race; the TH350-equipped Spirit Of San Diego Malibu was leading for quite a while, but had some mechanical problems (timing chain, if I recall correctly) and lost by 7 seconds.

An automatic-equipped Monte Carlo came in 3rd at the last CMP race. The Torquflite-equipped Size Matters Fury has finished in the top 10 multiple times.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
Murilee Martin on Twitter
Judge Phil's Lemons posts on Car and Driver
MurileeMartin.com

Judge Phil's Website

  • Riktor
  • Riktor
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,138

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

TH350, 375 or 400 could easily be reliable enough for Lemons but they need a BIG cooler or a good radiator with heat exchanger...

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • From: Bend, Or
  • Registered: 2009-05-18
  • Posts: 88

Re: Automatics at Lemons, has one ever won?

The Redneck Racing Team also won an IOE trophy with an automatic in a cadillac eldorado. Does anyone besides us think it'll make it through another full race? we'll find out at T-hill.  As said before tranny cooler and new filter...and we drove that car as hard as we could.