Topic: Photography - Panning question

Chuckwalla was my first race with an SLR and I jumped right in and was trying to do panning shots, to get that motion blur.

I read all about using the shutter priority mode, and learned some basics about ISO, metering modes, focus modes, etc. I was not very successful with most of my shots, but I did get some good ones, and I realized there was something I am not sure about.

When panning using a continuous auto focus with vibration reduction (I have a Nikon D5100) do you press the button 1/2 way to start the auto focus and VR on the subject before you start panning? Or do you start tracking the subject then press the button 1/2 way to start the focus and VR?

I know the VR can detect panning, but I am not sure if you need to already be panning..

I think I was doing both, so I have no idea which was more successful, and I know most importantly  I need more practice. I just want to learn more before I attempt it again.

I know there are some photography people in Lemons so figured I would ask here.

I don't use a tripod or mono pod and would like to improve my success with out having to use one.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

I'd start by turning off the VR. You are swinging the camera so it's not really going to be doing anything beneficial.

On my D300, I moved the AF to the AF-ON button instead of the shutter button. Not sure if you can do that with the 5100, but I think in this type of application it helps.

The camera is not going to change the focus when the shutter is open so you really just need to have the car in focus ahead of time. If you are shooting from the same spot you can pretty much establish your focus and leave it.

As you said, you are going to lock your shutter speed, so the camera is going to adjust the aperture and maybe the ISO for the exposure. It depends on the speed of the car but maybe start at 1/100th. I'd try to aim for a fairly high f-stop f/8 or f/11 maybe to start with - that will keep more of your depth in field in focus.

The great thing about digital is that you can keep playing with it until you get some settings that work for you. Also, if you don't already, use EXIFVIEWER or that type of addon for your browser. This will let you see the camera settings on pictures you like. Some sites like Facebook strip the data unfortunately, but not all.

Jim

Good Luck Everybody Else Racing. Yes, we have a fan page.

Re: Photography - Panning question

Thanks, I had thought about turning off the VR, but there were so many arguments towards leaving it on as it is supposed to detect the panning motion. Lots of people have success panning with it on, but other say turn it off. I guess it's down to the individual.

I will for sure give it a shot and try turning VR off  next time and pay better attention to what I am doing and take sets of shots. I will have to take a marking shot between settings changes and write it down cause I will forget. I did not see anywhere in the EXIF that shows is VR is on or off. 

The place I upload my photos keeps some of the EXIF info and on the originals I can see data from my Mac.

I will have to look into how/if I can assign my AF to one of the other buttons. I know some things can be assigned so it maybe possible, and having the focus correct and set sounds like a better plan then making the AF work each time.

In my camera's shutter priority mode, I can adjust the ISO but not the aperture, I would have to use the full manual mode which I should learn how to use.

I started off using 1/125 and even went up to 1/160 for shutter speed.  I wont drop any lower till I improve my success rate, I am happy with the good shots that I took with those shutter speeds.

Really I just need to get out there and practice more, like you said it is digital and memory is cheap.  Need to get some more batteries though.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

One thing that is great about these digital SLR's is if you set it on auto they are nearly fool-proof.  Granted, depending on the condition, you probably won't have something that jumps off the page, but at least a good photo.  Most of those photos you see in magazines that make you say "WOW" were taken in "raw" and edited.  Something that most hobbyist are not into.

Anyway, your panning question.  I like to pre-focus my shots.  You should have a general idea of where you are going to take the shot.  Go ahead and push the button 1/2 way to get the lens in focus.  Then as you are panning you can just click the button when the car is in that area.  But, that is not truly necessary.  If you want to see how well your camera focuses on the fly, start taking shots of a car and just hold the button down.  Your D5100 probably takes at least 3 shots per second.  I would bet that unless you were way out of focus to begin with all of your shots will be in focus.

I have a D40, D50, and D80.  When I am shooting auto racing (see www.fastfotos.zenfolio.com) and have plenty of sunshine I prefer to use the "sport" setting.  Normally during bright sunshine you will not get that "speed blur" without slowing down the shutter.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
"PA Posse" 21st out of 96 and 2nd in Class C, Capitol Offense 2013.
"PA Posse" 29th out of 133 and Class C WINNER, Halloween Hooptiefest 2013
"PA Posse" 33rd out of 151 and 2nd in Class C, The Real Hoopties 2013

5 (edited by f263u 2012-12-20 11:57 AM)

Re: Photography - Panning question

Monopod ftw. I found that's the biggest improvement for these shots, because as you pan the camera, you're introducing a lot of vibration up/down, and varying the position of the car in frame. Having something to steady that out is a great help, whether its a fence rail, a buddy's shoulder, or putting your other hand on the lens itself to try to steady it. I would vote FOR VR or IS or whatever, especially when hand-held, for the same reason.

I'll start higher shutter speed, then take a few test shots and click it down to see how low I can get it with a reliable shot. Depending on your distance to the car, its speed, or how many beers you've had, and how many thousands of dollars you spend on your lens, your going to have mixed results

As for pre-focusing, that works, but only if you're after one particular shot, like trying to catch each car as it goes through a chicane. You can focus on a leading car, then snap the photo of the one you want. If you're snapping away at your car as it drives by, you'll want to lift off and refocus for every shot, since its distance to you will change. USM (ultra-sonic-focus motor) or whatever the Nikon equivalent is important for this, so that you can refocus quickly.

Do any of my pictures turn out? Sort of...

This one's hand-held, with canon T3i and the standard 55-250 telephoto.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= … mp;theater

Same camera/lens, but this is on a tripod...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= … mp;theater

And if you're a pro, with a $4k camera / lens rig, you can even do it in the dark...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= … mp;theater

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'11 - Point, Sweat, Skank; '12 - Point, Sweat, Vodden, Freeze, '13 Point (+even), Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '14 Problem, Point, Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '15 Point, Lemonites, Freeze.

6 (edited by socal.colin 2012-12-20 12:08 PM)

Re: Photography - Panning question

Wow cool...

Yes the D5100 does 4 shots per second, and when I wanted to just get clean shots I used the Sports Mode and it worked great.

As for thousands of dollars on a lens.. haha no.. not even hundreds. This is my first SLR and I got a refurb Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX VR for $130.00 it is PLENTY good for me. I am not trying to make money and I am just learning.

My pops has a monopod I can borrow.. I should give that a shot as well. He is a good reference for understanding photography, but he never used a cheaty camera like the one I have.  He would be the type to put it in full manual, manually focus, etc.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LTXF12/287-LTXF12-UG.jpg

I do most of my pan shots using a handheld Nikon D60 on 100% full-manual mode. No VR, no autofocus, just focus, set the aperture and shutter speed, and go. If I'm using the 50mm lens and it's nice and bright out, I'll shoot at 1/40th or 1/50th exposure with the smallest aperture (highest f-stop value) I can get away with. With the 200mm telephoto (an old film-camera lens that fits the D60 body but doesn't allow for light-meter readings), I'm mostly using 1/80th, 1/100th, or 1/125th. When I set up to shoot Lemons cars in action, I do a lot of experimenting with apertures until I get images that look OK, which is tough to determine with the camera's LCD display in bright sunlight. When it's rainy and grim, I try to get the shots fairly dark, to show how gloomy it was that day.

Then I go and throw away 2/3 of the images later on. This is an activity I usually do on airplanes.

Re: Photography - Panning question

I don't think Nikon's VR works quite the same way as Canon's... on my Canon IS (Image Stabilizer) lenses, there's a mode select switch which lets you tell the thing whether you want X+Y stabilization, or just Y. In other words, you can tell it (and by the way it "knows" when you're on a tripod by the low threshold of vertical movement and does it automagically) that you only want it to stabilize the image against up-and-down motion while you pan. I do this to great effect...

http://ronman.org/pics/Lemons/nj12/img_9553_std.jpg

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Photography - Panning question

I am not sure about the higher end Nikon Lenses, but the cheap on I have, the VR is only on or off. But like I said before it is supposed to detect panning..

If you move the camera in a wide arc when panning, vibration in the direction of that movement is
not affected. For example, if you pan the camera horizontally, only vibration in the vertical direction
is reduced, making smooth pans much easier.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

I took all my pics with the VR on.. couple of the few that came out pretty well

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5_chlvWP8x0/UNOQEqqrBNI/AAAAAAAADtk/vvJHHtBMxA4/s800/photo.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KH8z-3zq60Y/UMpPpE5PdII/AAAAAAAADnc/bLNe2r_MpK4/s800/Rainbow_500_Chuckwalla-Arse-Freeze-Dec-2012.jpg

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Re: Photography - Panning question

Those two shots look good.  You are on the right path.  Practice as much as you can and play with different settings to see what it does for each shot.

Off topic: Were you told about formatting your memory card vs. individually deleting files?  It is best to format your memory card whenever you are done with what is on it.  Individually deleting files can leave little bits of data on the card and potentially ruin future shots.

I think that you will find that you do not need to lift your finger for the camera to stay focused if you are shooting a quick sequence (like a wreck in progress, or just your favorite car going around a corner).  All of my Nikon's are at least 5 years older than yours and each one of them stays focused while keeping the shutter button depressed.

Taking photos is like driving.  Everyone has their own style.  Learn what works for you and go with it.  IMHO it is the photographer that makes the great photo, not the high dollar equipment.  Although it helps to know the technical aspect of photography, you don't have to be a "photo geek" to take good shots.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
"PA Posse" 21st out of 96 and 2nd in Class C, Capitol Offense 2013.
"PA Posse" 29th out of 133 and Class C WINNER, Halloween Hooptiefest 2013
"PA Posse" 33rd out of 151 and 2nd in Class C, The Real Hoopties 2013

Re: Photography - Panning question

racinrob wrote:

Off topic: Were you told about formatting your memory card vs. individually deleting files?  It is best to format your memory card whenever you are done with what is on it.  Individually deleting files can leave little bits of data on the card and potentially ruin future shots.

Ummm... Those little bits make your car look faster. Sort of like auto-parts stickers or racing stripes.

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'11 - Point, Sweat, Skank; '12 - Point, Sweat, Vodden, Freeze, '13 Point (+even), Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '14 Problem, Point, Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '15 Point, Lemonites, Freeze.

Re: Photography - Panning question

Make sure you're using AF-C (continuous servo autofocus) mode. This will allow the autofocus system to "track" the object you're pointed at.

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Photography - Panning question

Auto focus is for the weak. Full manual everything!

15 (edited by zebrabeefj40 2012-12-21 09:54 AM)

Re: Photography - Panning question

Judge Phil wrote:

Auto focus is for the weak. Full manual everything!

This!  Plus in a FILM camera!  With real 35mm FILM!   I shoot races with an old Nikon F4 pro film camera and a collection of random manual and A/F lenses.

Nick
Focke Ewe racing -> Muttonheads! Racing -> Torque Junkies
86ish VW GTI...now with TDI Powah!

16 (edited by socal.colin 2012-12-21 10:20 AM)

Re: Photography - Panning question

Yes, I know to format vs delete individual, though i never knew it could show up in photos exactly, I know it can cause data problems. I am a computer / IT / QA guy by trade. This is why I love the Spitfire, I hardly know shit about cars vs the average Lemons gear head.

I also use the AF-C mode, the one problem with it is the zoom lens I have is known for being a bit on the slow side to focus. Part of the reason of the low price tag.

I will learn to manually focus, but the focus ring on my lens is considered to be pretty much worthless. Very tiny.

And no film for me.. The reason photography is cheaper these days is the lack of having to buy film. I would waste so much of it.

Thanks for all the tips... I have some things to try now when I head out to either the local dirt track / drag strip or the SCCA solos.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

socal.colin wrote:

Yes, I know to format vs delete individual, though i never knew it could show up in photos exactly, I know it can cause data problems.

That's because it doesn't.

I suppose that you could argue that you lose a small chunk of an image file if you have to "repair" the card when you input it into the computer (from bad sector, removing it from camera / pc while data was being written, etc.). That has the possibility of corrupting one image file on the card at one point in the future, but it's going to be that image that was partially written, not a new picture. Reformatting won't prevent or protect from bad sectors or hardware failures on the memory chip.

It's far more likely to "brick" an sd card by repeatedly formatting it all the time. Power off or crash or unplug or sneeze while the format's going on and you're going to lose the card.

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'11 - Point, Sweat, Skank; '12 - Point, Sweat, Vodden, Freeze, '13 Point (+even), Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '14 Problem, Point, Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '15 Point, Lemonites, Freeze.

Re: Photography - Panning question

That is possible yes.. but I used to work at Kodak Ink Jet and we formatted and reloaded images on all types of memory cards over and over and over.. normally they would physically break before a card went bad.

The main reason we were formatting the cards was to stop a drive jumping virus we had, also often the some camera's didn't like other camera's formats.

I am not really worried about it once I dump the pics off my camera.. I just want a quick delete so I format. I have other cards, if it doesnt work, pop the other one in and get another.

Have had experience with all types of flash memory loosing available space from using only the delete function on computers.. Maybe the cameras do it better? I really don't know.

What I do know is, it is Friday and 5pm can't come soon enough...

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Re: Photography - Panning question

Colin, make sure you have a filter on the lens, especially when you are at the dirt track.  That is definitely one I learned from experience.

I also avoid changing lenses when at the dirt track.  That is such a high dust environment that I just don't risk opening the camera while I am there, other than changing batteries.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
"PA Posse" 21st out of 96 and 2nd in Class C, Capitol Offense 2013.
"PA Posse" 29th out of 133 and Class C WINNER, Halloween Hooptiefest 2013
"PA Posse" 33rd out of 151 and 2nd in Class C, The Real Hoopties 2013

Re: Photography - Panning question

racinrob wrote:

Colin, make sure you have a filter on the lens, especially when you are at the dirt track.  That is definitely one I learned from experience.

I also avoid changing lenses when at the dirt track.  That is such a high dust environment that I just don't risk opening the camera while I am there, other than changing batteries.


Oh man, it was not even that windy at chuckwalla but there was bits of sand in all my stuff. I bought a lens brush and was very careful to get the sand off.  My pops warned me not to wipe the lenses at the track because of the sand, and I only change them in the RV. Lucky he told me because I was about to just wipe them with sand on the glass, and now I know that would have been bad.

I got a air rocket blower? on the way. I also went out and bought clear UV and polarizing filter. 

I wont touch the inside of the camera, it has a self cleaning feature, but other than that, I will take it in to a shop if the sensor gets dirty.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

I love my rocket blower. And your sensor WILL get dirty if you're changing lenses outside, it's pretty much a guarantee. The "self-cleaning" function is just a clear filter over the imaging chip itself that vibrates ultrasonically to theoretically knock any particulates off.

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Photography - Panning question

Screw that crap, be a real Lemon and get one of these and learn how to take pictures

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt … p;dur=2211

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Photography - Panning question

mackwagon wrote:

Screw that crap, be a real Lemon and get one of these and learn how to take pictures

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt … p;dur=2211


No thanks, my crappy car racing team is as deep as I want to go..  I enjoy my modern easy to use camera, computer, smart phone.. etc.

My rifle is pretty lemony though.. $80 at Big 5 years ago. Mosin Nagant m91/30.  Gets plenty of use and is cleaned with Windex and wd-40 then kept with w/e gun oil is on sale.. speaking of which it is about time for a desert shooting trip.

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Re: Photography - Panning question

Or.. if you really want to say what is a "Lemons" camera..

This

http://photo.tutsplus.com/tutorials/the … le-camera/

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Re: Photography - Panning question

So.. Turning off the VR on my lens worked better for me. I also figured out some settings on my camera and got rid of (what i thought) was a bluish tint on all my images.  They are definitely on the warm side, but looks better to me than the blue.

Did not get much time in taking pics at the track (was there for testing) but i feel more confident and can't wait for Sears Pointless. More so to race.. but taking pictures is a bonus.


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A6xn61tTd_w/UR6uDJCvuJI/AAAAAAAAEw0/qLxSf5EW8ac/s850/photo.jpg

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