1 Topic by cbustapeck (edited by cbustapeck 2009-10-31 06:53 AM)

  • From: Shaker Heights, OH
  • Registered: 2009-06-23
  • Posts: 190

Topic: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

I've been looking over the rules and trying to figure out how to build the minivan that I want to build while staying under $500 and keeping said vehicle as my daily driver. Crazy, I know, but I have my reasons. Think about it - hours and hours of actually driving the racecar prior to the race!

The problem with this is that there are a lot of things that are worth money that I could sell off for a car that is just to be used for Lemons that I need on a daily driver. Things like window switches, turn signal controls, etc. Some people might just subtract the average eBay price for such things when they removed them at the racetrack prior to the race. I'm not quite that much of a cheat.

This all boils down to my question: Is everything in section 3 of the rules considered to be safety equipment? The exhaust system is the first thing that comes to mind that seems questionable.

Edit:
Also, I'm not quite sure how this ended up over here. I could have sworn that I was looking at "Newbie Questions".

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  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

you really should not DD a vehicle with a full cage in place unless you plan to drive around in a helmet.  but it's your noggin not mine.

whatever it was i didn't do it
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  • From: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa)
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

There's probably enough headroom in a minivan to get away with daily-driving with a cage.

To answer the questions, though:  The rules are the rules.  What they say is what goes.

If they say exhaust aft of the header/manifold is "safety" that's what they mean!  If you question the logic of that, you obviously didn't see this: 
http://www.youtube.com/user/TractionInc … wMCCb0MUhg

That fire was caused by an improperly routed exhaust.

Take the rules at face value.  They mean what they say.

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  • From: Da Nati, oh
  • Registered: 2009-10-07
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

actually it wasnt improperly routed on their teams car ir was actually in a factory location but hanging low as one team member stated.

they were black flagged and told it was too low so they went brought it up closer to the car got it checked out by officials but was told it was still low so out of frustration they re hung the hole system and made it snug to the car they could they really did not want to mess with the exhaust.

sadly the sinching it up closer to under the car made a clearance issue around the gas tank they expressed concern to the officials on both the initial flag stop and the re hanging of the exhaust. the officials insisted they it be fixed per there concern.... half hour later under green flag conditions........ well you see the result.

we had an in car camera that would have captured the hole even unfold on the track but our camera guy decided no to do a second day of vid capturing.... which from where was on the track would been a perfect view as i was 4-6 cars back from the corner he pulled off at

i talked to the guy later one on one about it  for a little bit, and as i walked away a crew member from another team (camera in hand) asked me for some insight on what happened to the guy an mentioned he was at the tech stand when he was initially brought in for the exhaust issues...... so for me that kinda verified the story but not 100%

  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

cbustapeck wrote:

I've been looking over the rules and trying to figure out how to build the minivan that I want to build while staying under $500 and keeping said vehicle as my daily driver. Crazy, I know, but I have my reasons. Think about it - hours and hours of actually driving the racecar prior to the race!

The problem with this is that there are a lot of things that are worth money that I could sell off for a car that is just to be used for Lemons that I need on a daily driver. Things like window switches, turn signal controls, etc. Some people might just subtract the average eBay price for such things when they removed them at the racetrack prior to the race. I'm not quite that much of a cheat.

This all boils down to my question: Is everything in section 3 of the rules considered to be safety equipment? The exhaust system is the first thing that comes to mind that seems questionable.

Edit:
Also, I'm not quite sure how this ended up over here. I could have sworn that I was looking at "Newbie Questions".

No, we just put things in the rules to trick and confuse you. There are actually three magic items in section 3 that are not safety, and you have to guess what they are.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa)
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

hrlyTCH wrote:

actually it wasnt improperly routed on their teams car ir was actually in a factory location but hanging low as one team member stated. 

... blah, blah blah

Yeah, I knew the whole story, I was there, talked to the team.  But, the exhaust AT THE TIME OF THE FIRE was routed improperly.  It's what caused the fire.  Period. (exclamation point) End of story.

The point here is that such things are WHY the exhaust system is considered safety.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Loren wrote:
hrlyTCH wrote:

actually it wasnt improperly routed on their teams car ir was actually in a factory location but hanging low as one team member stated. 

... blah, blah blah

Yeah, I knew the whole story, I was there, talked to the team.  But, the exhaust AT THE TIME OF THE FIRE was routed improperly.  It's what caused the fire.  Period. (exclamation point) End of story.

The point here is that such things are WHY the exhaust system is considered safety.

Sraight out the hood and three feet up should do it...

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  • From: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa)
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Riktor wrote:

Sraight out the hood and three feet up should do it...

You would think... but the way the rules were revised (after said BMW fire), that won't fly!

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Loren wrote:
Riktor wrote:

Sraight out the hood and three feet up should do it...

You would think... but the way the rules were revised (after said BMW fire), that won't fly!

With the exception of a roll-over it SHOULD work.. but they want it exitting BEHIND the driver door.... It's a simply rule taken from MULTIPLE race series...

I still woulld like to see a set of inverted zoomies on something.... Maybe we'll make some god aweful creation to use them... Can't wait to make the muffler pack.

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  • From: Toronto, Ontario
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Remember you can flip the headers on a SBC...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

jimeditorial wrote:

Remember you can flip the headers on a SBC...

Yep... Cut down the collector a bit and weld on a flange... PERFECT start to a twin-turbo setup...

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Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Riktor wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:

Remember you can flip the headers on a SBC...

Yep... Cut down the collector a bit and weld on a flange... PERFECT start to a twin-turbo setup...

I was thinking leave 'em open and use Dixie cups to keep the rain out while it sits in the back yard...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

jimeditorial wrote:
Riktor wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:

Remember you can flip the headers on a SBC...

Yep... Cut down the collector a bit and weld on a flange... PERFECT start to a twin-turbo setup...

I was thinking leave 'em open and use Dixie cups to keep the rain out while it sits in the back yard...

We would do that with our "vette" and Fiero creations... but they HAVE to have a muffler and have to dump behind the driver door.

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

I recall seeing a Pinto at Houston that in the spring was doing what Jim suggested, but this time they ran the pipes up (yes, up) into a collector, then back along the roof with a tailpipe that exited the gas back way above the rear bumper. The entire exhaust system and roof was painted with "hot exhaust" warnings. I don't know if it passed tech that way and/or ran the race in that condition though. I remember looking at it one morning and thinking that it looked both insane, pretty dangerous, and within the letter of the rules, all at the same time.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

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15 Reply by Mulry (edited by Mulry 2009-11-03 12:37 PM)

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

This was the one at Houston the weekend before last, the Bayou Degradable Ford Pinto:

http://cache-10.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_LTXF09-Top-119.jpg

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

I still want to use a set of Jet boat headers with glas packs on the end. 

The Pinto kinda beat me to the general idea though.

Troy

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

That just gave me an AWESOME idea.... now I just need to find a diesel turbo to make it worth my time.

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

What was up w/ the SAAB at NL that had exhaust along the roof?
Was it a deepwater fording modification due to the heavy rains?

I never got to see it up close, too busy fixing my crapcan all weekend.

Jim C.
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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

FJ40Jim wrote:

What was up w/ the SAAB at NL that had exhaust along the roof?
Was it a deepwater fording modification due to the heavy rains?

fjording

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Riktor wrote:

That just gave me an AWESOME idea.... now I just need to find a diesel turbo to make it worth my time.

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1450931407.html

I'm thinking you could make 3 Lemons cars out of that mess.

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Zachreligious wrote:
Riktor wrote:

That just gave me an AWESOME idea.... now I just need to find a diesel turbo to make it worth my time.

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/1450931407.html

I'm thinking you could make 3 Lemons cars out of that mess.

Too many cars already. If I could I would make our 49 chevy into a Lemons car but to do so would require us to replace the entire frame/drivetrain. Without the bed it is still a 6000+ truck.

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

FJ40Jim wrote:

What was up w/ the SAAB at NL that had exhaust along the roof?
Was it a deepwater fording modification due to the heavy rains?

I never got to see it up close, too busy fixing my crapcan all weekend.

They had the same setup at Stafford in July... thing sounded MEAN. cool

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

ronman wrote:
FJ40Jim wrote:

What was up w/ the SAAB at NL that had exhaust along the roof?
Was it a deepwater fording modification due to the heavy rains?

I never got to see it up close, too busy fixing my crapcan all weekend.

They had the same setup at Stafford in July... thing sounded MEAN. cool

Mean?  At NL, it was dead quiet.

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Re: Rule clarification - section 3 and safety equipment

Maybe they got yelled at for being too loud?

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