Topic: Been thinking...

About Lemons, of course.

Like, why we do it, and especially why we keep doing it. Our 2013 season is starting up, so it seemed like a good time to reflect.

I got involved in this after watching a couple races from the sidelines, then in a moment of weakness I bought a seat in the pyramid-powered Mazda 323. I had never raced. Lots of track days, sure, but no racing. Being able to drive for Dave was an experience, to say the least. He had a great car and team and had done well with that thing, which I swear the motor was barely any bigger than the battery, so it had to be pyramid-powered. But for me, the sensory overload was similar to my first track days. So much was new, different, challenging, mental processing of it all was maxed out, and I couldn't believe what I was doing with and to someone else's car. Even so, I still didn't quite get the racing part of the racing thing. It took a while to realize that I was basically just out there driving a track day in traffic. Sure, there was some dicing, but I was still holding back, being nice, patient, practicing good track day etiquette, point-bys and all. I even pitted after a spin in the last 20 minutes of the race without getting BFed, wasted a lot of time there, probably lost several positions for the team, but still managed a top 20. Positions mean nothing on track days, and at the time I didn't realize what a top 20 in Lemons actually meant.

The Tinyvette was born out of this one experience. We got a car and in 9 weeks made it safe and pretty and able to complete laps at a track day, and barely finish it's first Lemons race. When you run a team, build a team, build a car, and field that car, then clean up the mess afterwards, you are wearing so many hats that it sometimes is difficult to figure out what it is all about any more. The build, sure, but that's just a fraction of it. The race, including the logistics, management, execution, for the power hungry and despot-tending types, that might satisfy. The driving, awesome as it is, a reward for the 9 weeks of foreplay just mentioned, does not quite justify the effort.

I've decided that it is the theater, and given all that Phil and Jay to to make this not-just-racing, that should have been obvious, but I guess I am a little slow about some things. But yea, it is the theater. We practice and rehearse and prepare, then pack up and get to the show with plenty of time to settle in before the curtains open. The paddock is back stage, where all of the characters are arriving and getting into character. Each team is a character, as if Lemons were a Pixar movie. We're the Tinyvette character, earnest, mostly honest, still a little clueless and still holding on to the dream that if the car does well enough in Lemons that it will get invited to Le Mans and get to race with the big Corvette guys. The Lemons version of  "The Little Engine that Could". Then, OMG, there is the 'bee character, the Bug, the Jeep, the Polar Bear, Eyesore, Mazadarachies, that pole dancer car, and so many more characters, and that's just for the west coast races!

So last night as I was pressure washing parts I had recently bead blasted, soaking wet and cold, hoping I could get all the glass out, hoping that my second attempt at an engine build would last more than an hour this time, stressing that our replacement for  piston #4 still has not arrived, wondering if I anything I've read online about tuning Webers is true, still needing to inspect the rest of the car and repair any salt-related damage, thinking about the the money to get a 4-channel EGT gauge, plus a gasket set, and how I should really be spending more time making money so I can continue to pay rent, the idea of Lemons as theater and not just racing, and as art and not merely sport, that made it all feel better. Being part of this show, especially with the other great characters that we've become friends with, makes it all, well, mostly, worth it, most of the time.

Re: Been thinking...

m610 wrote:

Being part of this show, especially with the other great characters that we've become friends with, makes it all, well, mostly, worth it, most of the time.

+1
This is why, even though I no longer have a viable car (the Super Snipe), and cannot afford to do an A&D (mostly unemployed), I will be driving up to Sears Pointless in a few weeks.   I can still hang out with my many Lemons friends, take lots of photos, and have a good (no, make that GREAT) time!   And if someone hands me a wrench and tells me to get my hands dirty, I will enjoy every minute of it.

The Lemons community is full of really wonderful people, and I treasure all my experiences with them.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Been thinking...

Well said sir, well said. We will see you at the show in a few weeks.

'13  Sonoma - Class B Crown Vic, 14 Sonoma IOE - Race Rambler!, Autobahn Class C+IOE #Racevan!, '15 Thill IOE Winner - Omega!, '16 Ridge - IOE - Avanti!, '17 THill Class C Winner - Omega, Butt IOE - Race 411, Sonoma IOE - Aztek '18 Butt - IOE - Allante, MSR - IOE - '41 Olds - '19 Butt-Class C - Allante, '20 Covid, '21 THill-Class B - Omega, Sonoma - IOE and HWG  - Satellite, '22 Sonoma - HWG-Tojan

Re: Been thinking...

The characters... most definitely for the characters.

That, and it's an excuse to get the hell out of the house and make a bunch noise for a weekend, hang out with a thousand or so of my best friends...

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Been thinking...

I'm just here for the women and the bacon.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Been thinking...

The bacon is a given.

Speaking of which, I hear a pound calling my fat name....

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Been thinking...

Ah, the old, “Why are we doing this” discussion.

I’ve thought a lot about this over the years, because while I am new to Lemons, I’ve had hobbies of dubious societal value since I was 17.

My answer to “why?” is: because not everybody gets to be an astronaut.  I would love to have an occupation that consumed all of my talent and all of my energy and all of my imagination and skill, but I didn’t draw that card.  Too lazy, not lucky enough, listened to the wrong advice?  All possible, but it doesn’t matter.  I’m not a fighter pilot, or a brain surgeon, or a read writer, or a sculptor in the grip of his muse.  I have a decent education, I have a decent job, sometimes, my work is on fire for me, but often it’s grinding corporatism.

I used to play with guns and tanks for a hobby.  The planning, the maintenance, and above all the teamwork all served together to provide an outlet for my unused talents and enthusiasm.  I got older, I can’t run and bump like I used to, and the virtually unused public property where me and like-minded idiots played is now a permanently staffed army base/national insecurity center since some morons intentionally badly landed some airplanes.  So racecar.  In my garage lives a horrible old car that is worth scrap.  On Sunday I motored it out onto my driveway and cut a door panel out of it, and used a sawzall to reduce parts of its interior into chunks small enough to fit into my trashcan.  I visit it on weeknights, it is my touchstone, my talisman, it tells me, “put up with the shit a bit longer, you can work on my fuel system this weekend, and in two weeks you can take me to the cage fabricator, remember when you’re in the next crappy meeting that you are a racecar driver.  We race in September, you can make it”.  Self-delusion? Absolutely.  But it works.

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

-jt
Unionized Physicist
Tetanus Racing
1986 Porsche 944, #986

Re: Been thinking...

Racing cars has been a lifelong dream for me.

This (Lemons) will have to do.

And 99% of the people I've met are pretty frickin awesome.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Been thinking...

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

Racing cars has been a lifelong dream for me.

This (Lemons) will have to do.

And 99% of the people I've met are pretty frickin awesome.



I'm sorry.  I didn't realize I was going to ruin perfection when I introduced myself.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
"PA Posse" 21st out of 96 and 2nd in Class C, Capitol Offense 2013.
"PA Posse" 29th out of 133 and Class C WINNER, Halloween Hooptiefest 2013
"PA Posse" 33rd out of 151 and 2nd in Class C, The Real Hoopties 2013

Re: Been thinking...

Pretty much this... Nicely put

jimthefirst wrote:

Ah, the old, “Why are we doing this” discussion.

I’ve thought a lot about this over the years, because while I am new to Lemons, I’ve had hobbies of dubious societal value since I was 17.

My answer to “why?” is: because not everybody gets to be an astronaut.  I would love to have an occupation that consumed all of my talent and all of my energy and all of my imagination and skill, but I didn’t draw that card.  Too lazy, not lucky enough, listened to the wrong advice?  All possible, but it doesn’t matter.  I’m not a fighter pilot, or a brain surgeon, or a read writer, or a sculptor in the grip of his muse.  I have a decent education, I have a decent job, sometimes, my work is on fire for me, but often it’s grinding corporatism.

I used to play with guns and tanks for a hobby.  The planning, the maintenance, and above all the teamwork all served together to provide an outlet for my unused talents and enthusiasm.  I got older, I can’t run and bump like I used to, and the virtually unused public property where me and like-minded idiots played is now a permanently staffed army base/national insecurity center since some morons intentionally badly landed some airplanes.  So racecar.  In my garage lives a horrible old car that is worth scrap.  On Sunday I motored it out onto my driveway and cut a door panel out of it, and used a sawzall to reduce parts of its interior into chunks small enough to fit into my trashcan.  I visit it on weeknights, it is my touchstone, my talisman, it tells me, “put up with the shit a bit longer, you can work on my fuel system this weekend, and in two weeks you can take me to the cage fabricator, remember when you’re in the next crappy meeting that you are a racecar driver.  We race in September, you can make it”.  Self-delusion? Absolutely.  But it works.

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Been thinking...

jimthefirst wrote:

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

I'm doing it wrong.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Been thinking...

Speedycop wrote:
jimthefirst wrote:

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

I'm doing it wrong.

Same here.  I've never spent any money on golf.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Been thinking...

Budget racing is anything but.

Maybe 15 race cars in 4 years, with umpteen powetrains and variations, had some bearing on that. Stupid automotive A.D.D...

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: Been thinking...

Alan/CowDriver When are you going up to Sears? I think we are leaving from Van Nuys first thing in the morning Friday if you want to caravan, or we may even be able to offer you a car pool spot. Not sure how many cars we are driving, but there will be at least 2, with one towing the racecar and 1 just bringing people and stuff.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Been thinking...

Speedycop wrote:
jimthefirst wrote:

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

I'm doing it wrong.

Er, in my neighborhood golf costs $25K to show up.

-jt
Unionized Physicist
Tetanus Racing
1986 Porsche 944, #986

Re: Been thinking...

Parkwod60 wrote:

Alan/CowDriver When are you going up to Sears? I think we are leaving from Van Nuys first thing in the morning Friday if you want to caravan, or we may even be able to offer you a car pool spot. Not sure how many cars we are driving, but there will be at least 2, with one towing the racecar and 1 just bringing people and stuff.

I am going up Thursday morning so I can hang out for a while at Evil Genius.   I want to see how many hamster power Pete's MG puts out.   smile

If anyone wants to drive up with me, I have an empty seat and a tiny bit of luggage space.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Been thinking...

CowDriver wrote:
Parkwod60 wrote:

Alan/CowDriver When are you going up to Sears? I think we are leaving from Van Nuys first thing in the morning Friday if you want to caravan, or we may even be able to offer you a car pool spot. Not sure how many cars we are driving, but there will be at least 2, with one towing the racecar and 1 just bringing people and stuff.

I am going up Thursday morning so I can hang out for a while at Evil Genius.   I want to see how many dead hamsters are launched from Pete's MG in a cloud of smoke and screeching metal   smile

FTFY.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Been thinking...

racinrob wrote:
Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

Racing cars has been a lifelong dream for me.

This (Lemons) will have to do.

And 99% of the people I've met are pretty frickin awesome.



I'm sorry.  I didn't realize I was going to ruin perfection when I introduced myself.


well, someone had to be the first:)

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Been thinking...

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

Pretty much this... Nicely put

jimthefirst wrote:

Ah, the old, “Why are we doing this” discussion.

I’ve thought a lot about this over the years, because while I am new to Lemons, I’ve had hobbies of dubious societal value since I was 17.

My answer to “why?” is: because not everybody gets to be an astronaut.  I would love to have an occupation that consumed all of my talent and all of my energy and all of my imagination and skill, but I didn’t draw that card.  Too lazy, not lucky enough, listened to the wrong advice?  All possible, but it doesn’t matter.  I’m not a fighter pilot, or a brain surgeon, or a read writer, or a sculptor in the grip of his muse.  I have a decent education, I have a decent job, sometimes, my work is on fire for me, but often it’s grinding corporatism.

I used to play with guns and tanks for a hobby.  The planning, the maintenance, and above all the teamwork all served together to provide an outlet for my unused talents and enthusiasm.  I got older, I can’t run and bump like I used to, and the virtually unused public property where me and like-minded idiots played is now a permanently staffed army base/national insecurity center since some morons intentionally badly landed some airplanes.  So racecar.  In my garage lives a horrible old car that is worth scrap.  On Sunday I motored it out onto my driveway and cut a door panel out of it, and used a sawzall to reduce parts of its interior into chunks small enough to fit into my trashcan.  I visit it on weeknights, it is my touchstone, my talisman, it tells me, “put up with the shit a bit longer, you can work on my fuel system this weekend, and in two weeks you can take me to the cage fabricator, remember when you’re in the next crappy meeting that you are a racecar driver.  We race in September, you can make it”.  Self-delusion? Absolutely.  But it works.

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

I agree...this was well said.

jimthefirst wrote:

I’ve had hobbies of dubious societal value since I was 17.

I've never thought of it in these term, but this applies to me 100% and sounds so much better than, "Why do you always have to do things that cost so much and are so childish!"

"He attacked everything in life with a mixture of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which."   -Adams, Douglas.   The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

14x loser @ Gingerman, Autobahn, Summit Point, New Jersey, Road 'Merica, and Barber

20

Re: Been thinking...

I gave up trying to figure out how I decided to do this.  Read about it, and pestered everyone I knew until I can assemble most of a team.  Common sense would be that we shouldn't and couldn't do this.  None of us ever worked on cars, none of us had ever been on a race track, no track days, no autocross nothing.  We should have shown up with a car that couldn't pass tech, and didn't run, and if it did we should have gone off course and crashed in the first turn, but we didn't.  Best I can tell as the reason I did it was my inner child had a pretty effective argument, or possible big tantrum.  I have early memories of sitting in the back seat of the family car acting like I was driving.  Window scraper as my steering wheel, only problem was my parents never went fast enough or passed as many cars as I wanted to do.

After the first race, besides not exploding, there are several reason I keep doing it.  It was a lot of fun, the racing, the people, the working on the car, everything. 

Its a challenge, always something new or different to learn and do, completely outside of what I do normally. The fact that I have no idea what I'm doing, and am in a hopelessly awful car really adds to it.  I'm the type that really only likes playing games that I shouldn't be able to win.  If its a sure thing I'm going to win, I get bored and stop playing.

Its an excuse to get together with friends.  The teammates I have are some of my closest friends, but sadly the real world makes it hard to see them.  However paying $1500 for this car to enter a race does free up time for us to get together to get the car ready and play a bit.

Its something to look forward to.  No matter how awful the day at work is I know that in so many months I have a race coming up.  A weekend of driving, eating badly, lack of sleep, drinking, joking, and fun.  This I'm pretty sure the background picture on all my work devices are all of my car from one race or another.

Finally I find it cool to do something that so many people I think would like to but so few actually do.   I'd like to think our team has shown anyone can race Lemons, and even walk away with a trophy or two.  Its just most teams never get past the lets form a team stage, and that is just people trying to run Lemons, how many people would just like to race cars but think its too expensive or unachievable because they only know the upper end of professional racing.  I still find it odd when I find someone who knows about Lemons, and it weirds me out a bit when it seems someone had heard of our team or car, but I am proud that my team has actually raced, and even finished races, and the experiences are more important than anything we won.

I'm sure there is more but those are the ones off the top of my head.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Been thinking...

Speedycop wrote:
jimthefirst wrote:

Oh, and Lemons is hella cheaper than golf.

I'm doing it wrong.

In Lemons, if you're doing it wrong, you're doing it right.  So I'm not sure where that leaves you.

Me, I'm in this because I wanted to drive race cars competitively and this is the most accessible way do it.  Years ago, when I had no money, no means, and no know-how, I was trying to figure out how to race Spec Racer Fords.  That was never going to happen, so I did a couple of NASA HPDEs at Buttonwillow (my first on-track experience).

To me, Lemons is 100% real racing.  It's all there - multi-class endurance racing with all the challenges (plus more) that come with it.  In my mind, it's the same thing as LeMans.  Some dismissive outsiders don't realize that the racing in Lemons is the real deal.  It's not a parade out there.  Sure, the pros have exotic cars (well ours are exotic too, just in a different way), grid girls, more fans than participants, and way too much money involved.

As for the racing, every skill that applies in pro racing applies here - but the stakes are much lower, which makes it more fun.  Plus the whole themes/costumes/silliness that's part of Lemons is a sort of litmus test: if you're too full of yourself to be ridiculous, you don't belong in this corner of the sport.  I think it serves a much more important function than some people realize.

So for me it's 100% REAL racing, cleverly designed in such a way as to keep it fun and accessible.

15x+ Loser, thinks he's a Real Racer(tm)
Rotaries are great, everyone should try them.