1 (edited by doctordel 2013-03-25 10:08 PM)

Topic: Future Lemons Candidates

I haven't seen this posted before but if it has been, just ignore this.

Judge Phil's fantastic series on "cars that should do well in Lemons but don't" and "cars that should should suck in Lemons but don't" got me to thinking about which cars that are currently being sold (or recently sold) as new on dealer lots will 1)make their way on to a Lemons course after another, say, ten years; and 2)will find reasonable success at leading the Lemons field once their time comes. Of course, they will have to occupy that sweet spot of sucking bad enough to be obtainable at the $500 or less price while still enjoying some combination of strong sales (and thus plentiful junkyard spares), a loyal following to glean information from and fairly straightforward wrenchability. Now, making them faster and more reliable will be the mysterious secret sauce to Lemons builds for as long as Jay finds his Frankenstein project a worthy distraction so that will never be a concern, I wouldn't think. But what current cars are going to make up the Lemons grid in 2023?

There are some that immediately come to mind for me. A bunch of penultimate year Pontiacs, for instance. I also can easily see the Nissan Altima as a stalwart. Absurd credit non-requirements and fire-sale pricing made these the go-to for anyone looking to combine a shiny new car and a sub-500 Beacon score. Most got the $#!T beat out of them and are worth decidedly less than their rolling stock in many cases. Wrong wheel drive and CVT be damned; the fact that you will be able to pick up three parts cars for your hooptified LeMonized POS for the cost of a fill-up of CY2023 premium should make the Altima a Lemons lemming. Pretty much anything currently wearing a Mitsubishi badge in a dealer lot is game, I would think. By 2023 there may not even be a Mitsubishi dealership selling gasoline powered cars in America if their sales continue to progress as they have over the last year and a half. Crappy interior aesthetics combined with anonymous styling and third world build quality don't exactly portend great commercial success when everyone else is stepping up their game. But, Mitsu's loss will be LeMon's gain come 2023! Similar pricing strategy as Nissan put lots of these future junkyard scale-climbers in the hands of people looking to beat on them mercilessly as appliances of daily living, leaving them used up and forgotten once their lease was up or they turned them over to be auctioned by the receiving dealership on trade. On the domestic side: Chrysler 200 and 300; the Dodge Avenger; the Ford Fusion and Mustang; the Chevy Impala and Camaro. There have to be others I am not even thinking of...

Will the Altima be capable of running an entire Lemons weekend reliably? Does the Avenger have some hidden strength that the general buying public knows nothing about that would put it towards the front of the field come late Sunday afternoon at MSR? Can a 300 be lightened and cooled enough to take advantage of the powerful Hemi under its hood?

Am I totally off base here? What can I race in 10 years that I could have bought brand new (or almost brand new) in 2013?

Head of Estate
/) come monday motorsports /)

Kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.

2 (edited by Drdanteiii 2013-03-26 05:13 AM)

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Hyundai Genesis, both in coupe and sedan form.

I'd also like to think that the mazda 2/ford fiesta will be plenty buttt turrible.

the fiat 500 should be on that list


I doubt any modern BMW or MB will be at all lemonizable due to their complexity.


I still want to see a VW phaeton.

The Roto-Racer '89 Merkur:  If it ain't rusting, It ain't racing.

'14 Real Hoopties of NJ: Judges Choice

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Mini Cooper, base

Nissan Versa

Nissan 350z (not currently for sale but after owning a creaking-when-new 2003 these things have nowhere to go but down the LeMon yellow brick road)

Head of Estate
/) come monday motorsports /)

Kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

It woun't be too many more years and there will be a few legitimate $500 E30's and Miatas.

THEN, those Damn Cheaters can quit with their LIES!!!!!

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

I'll sell you my hella-not-cheaty DD E30 right now,  325e/auto/2.92 open rear/250K miles - it's the fastest car ever...NOT!

I disagree about the BMW/MB comment: those cars will be the next crop of ill-advised motor swap candidates.  Great chassis with a 5.3 Chevy = winning!

Nick
Focke Ewe racing -> Muttonheads! Racing -> Torque Junkies
86ish VW GTI...now with TDI Powah!

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Team sensory assault, please do this thread the honor of posting your 1000th post here, with whatever wisdom you deem us worthy of receiving!

Head of Estate
/) come monday motorsports /)

Kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

There is a car in my neighborhood that I lust after for a future lemon.  It's a pre-2005 Toyota Echo in what looks like a factory-applied, eye-searing metallic poop/puke/snot green/yellow.  The goofy tall roof line would be great for caging it, but the best part is that it is TRD-badged.  I haven't been able to find anything about factory TRD-Echos, so it could be modified, but it is magnificently ridiculous.

-jt
Unionized Physicist
Tetanus Racing
1986 Porsche 944, #986

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Funny, I was just thinking today that an Echo might be a reasonably reliably Lemons car.

Lorin Mueller
Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Aside: There's a first-generation Altima from Colorado, I think, that's won a couple Chump races.

Today's crapcans are probably, on average, about 18-20 years old. So in 2023, you'd be looking at stuff from almost a decade ago. If it were me, I'd be looking out for an SVT Focus or a Cobalt SS/Ion Redline, but I'm also what the doctors call "Stupid."

However, I do know one thing: There will be all manner of Prius and Insight shells, purged of their hybridized drivetrains and smugmeters, awaiting the craziest of drivetrain transplants.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

V6 Dodge Chargers and Challengers.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Tauruses (or Tauri?) everywhere...

____________________________________
Always running on E \ ' ' ' ' F 
Speedycop and the Gang of Outlaws Official Ten+ Time Loser
Owner #132 Lancia/Toyota Beta/MR2 Scorpion

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Chevy Cruze. It won the World Touring Car Championship, so it has to be a great Lemons car in the making, right? LOL.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

When will we see our first Lemons EcoBoost? 

When willl we see our first legitimate Lemons LSuX Engine?

Dangerous Banned Technology (NOLA 09), Judges Choice (Houston 2010), Organizers Choice (NOLA 2010), Most Heroic Fix (Dallas 2010), $100 from Jay's Pocket (Dallas 2010), Dangerous Homemade Technology (NOLA 2010), Ununhexium Legends of Lemons Status,  Index of Effluency (Dallas 2011), Most Heroic Fix - (Houston 2011), Index of Effluency (TWS - 2012), Organizers Choice (Dallas 2013)

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

When will we see our first Lemons EcoBoost? 

When willl we see our first legitimate Lemons LSuX Engine?

TwinForce-swapped Prius I shell, FTW!

Head of Estate
/) come monday motorsports /)

Kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Have we had a Mazda 6 in Lemons yet? That chassis was so good Ford used it for everything from Volvos to Lincolns, and we all know Mazda motors seems to live well enough in this series

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

In about 25 years, we could see a Dacia Sandaero!

Fourteen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

VW clean diesel plz.

dead rabbit society: cultured 'n shit.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Hell, the first of the late-model VW Bugs are probably Lemons material already.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

Parkwod60 wrote:

Have we had a Mazda 6 in Lemons yet? That chassis was so good Ford used it for everything from Volvos to Lincolns, and we all know Mazda motors seems to live well enough in this series


Just saw a 1988 Mazda 6 GT go up for sale on Copart bumped in the back end, perfect for Lemons racing, turbo 4 didn't make much H.P. (145) but had gobs of torque (190) with a 5 speed to boot. Would have been a terror on the track if you could keep it together.

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

20

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

I think the last generation Oldsmobile have some potential and should be hitting Lemons money about now. There are a bunch of little things on those cars that Oldmobile did that will help in Lemons but not in sales.  For instance Baffled oil pans not going to move a car off the lot but can keep a car moving on the track.   Not sure if the Aurora V8 has all the northstar issues but the shortstar version was almost as fast but lighter and better fuel mileage which may make it the better one to have anyway and was in the Intrigue and 2nd gen Aurora's.  The Alero 4 cylinder is ready for a bolt on supercharrger or turbo, can't remember which but eitherway forced induction always it good right?

The Turbo imprezas and evos are going to replace the camaro's as fast till the blow up, especially with all the go even faster parts people can get for them although I would love to see someone lower one of the old boxy foresters and run that.  The early turbo ones had the lowest output engine, so it may be more reliable after you upgrade the intercooler.

I do believe most newer cars are going to have a lot of issues due to electronics that are going to drive teams nuts, especially since now they all will go into limp mode while the older ones would maybe flash a light and keep going.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

BoB wrote:

The Turbo imprezas and evos are going to replace the camaro's as fast till the blow up, especially with all the go even faster parts people can get for them although I would love to see someone lower one of the old boxy foresters and run that.  The early turbo ones had the lowest output engine, so it may be more reliable after you upgrade the intercooler.

As an owner of an early WRX they most certainly will be fast-ish until they blow up. Especially with the way many of them were abused, they could be launching engine internals at Lemons events well before 2023.

Jim - 3 Pedal Mafia
Dustbuster AWD Civic WagoVan
SeaSprite/S10 a.k.a. "The Boat"

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

new beetles all suffer from a packaging problem that will work to prevent lemonizing.

the oil filter sticks out the front of the block, and the front end bodywork nearly explodes on impact. any sort of light hit to the front does enough damage to the body to theoretically push the price down, but it almost always destroys the motor too.

and even then, they still bring decent money at the insurance pools.

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

It's only a matter of time before a Dakota R/T shows up. Just wish I had the time and money to do it.

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

i finagled a way too look at that ad, and realized it was a later dakota.


i was expecting:
http://encarsglobe.com/data_images/gallery/01/shelby-dakota/shelby-dakota-08.jpg

Team OK-Speed
Regularly losing in Class A
Soon to start losing in Class C

Re: Future Lemons Candidates

steve wrote:
Parkwod60 wrote:

Have we had a Mazda 6 in Lemons yet? That chassis was so good Ford used it for everything from Volvos to Lincolns, and we all know Mazda motors seems to live well enough in this series


Just saw a 1988 Mazda 6 GT go up for sale on Copart bumped in the back end, perfect for Lemons racing, turbo 4 didn't make much H.P. (145) but had gobs of torque (190) with a 5 speed to boot. Would have been a terror on the track if you could keep it together.

You are referring to either the 626 or the MX-6, both of which I'm sure have long since gotten to Lemons money or below. I am referring to the Mazda 6 from 2003 onward. The platform is now under just about every medium & full sized Ford, Lincoln and the last of the Mercurys

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura