I think a stupid cage question (Page 2 of 2)

This is a good forum, all this info has helped -- We will also be fixing the fuel cell install per everyone's suggestions.

That's surprising. I would figure with their larger rule set, Chump would be at least as strict on safety as Lemons.

I'm actually not even being sarcastic.

On balance, I would say that Chump is less strict---maybe insurance differences, maybe related to the higher prevalence of really slow cars in Lemons, maybe just a difference of opinion.  Most of the difference in the size of the rulebook is ChumpCar codifying stuff that is unwritten or unregulated in Lemons.  The things that I can think of, offhand, where ChumpCar is more strict on safety are window nets, some aspects regarding fuel cells (required SFI or FIA rating, required firewall), minimum time for pit stops where fuel is added, and the requirement for fire systems next year.  Lemons cage requirements are more strict (minimum spreader plate area, minimum tube size for some cars, minimum helmet clearance) and Lemons seat requirements are more strict.

Well, like I said we are new, so yes, we paid too much. And yes, the car has been flogged hard. I don't know about the fire part though, no evidence of that so far!

you need some sort of brace within 6" of the seat back (around the shoulder area) that will prevent the seat as a whole from falling backwards in the car if you are hit from behind. this can be a standard cage element (harness bar) an additional cage element (we have a pseudo harness bar before and below our actual one), or a plate on a stick something like this

i, personally, am not a fan of this sort of brace, because i do not like having a metal post pointing at my spine, but it is a legal and functional option.

futhermore, the headrest portion of the seat must not be very flexible in relation to the rest of the seatback. many metal seats will bend fairly easily at the harness holes, and that can be dangerous. if the headrest section is weak (grab it at the top and try to push the car back and forth), you either need to reinforce the seat itself (tough for the novice to do well), or you need to have a headrest backer that is similar to the seat backer described above.

the seat brace is allowed to be up to 6" away from the seat. I cannot say if the headrest backer is allowed such a clearance. 

i don't know if this is legal, but i thought it looked like an interesting start of a solution. it retains the seat, and with a little more metal against the back of the seat at the harness hole, would do a decent job of stiffening the headrest.

nope, still not a fan:

from the 24 hour race last summer

a bigger plate might have not torn at all, or it might have just torn a bigger hole. either way, i'm not comfortable with it.

I saw that damage up close.  The "impaler" plate was too small, but lets not discount the seat type composition.  That was a perfect mismatch of bad ideas.  there is a big difference between what was suggested a 12x4 plate vs. the 4x4ish that was pictured as prompting the rule change. 
I think 4" tall plate all the way across the seat is overkill, but again it depends on the seat and the mount.

as i noted, a larger plate might not have torn at all, or might have torn a bigger hole.... either way, i'd rather a bar across my shoulderblades than a post pointed at my spine.

but...so long as posts are legal, we should do what we can to advise people of what issues they can cause. a bigger spreader plate is probably always better than a smaller one. IMHO, a crossbar is always better than a post.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the suggested installation for the "post pointing at your spine" is that it should terminate in a plate that is at least as wide as the shoulder-width area of your seat.

We have the same issue. the main hoop in our civic is up against the rear seat ledge, and even my over 6 foot tall ass can't get my back near the harness bar. if we pull the seat up for our shortest driver, he's a foot away from the bar.

so, I bent a new bar that my shoulders hit and welded it in front of and slightly below the harness bar. our short driver is still within 6" of it, and nothing is bolted to the seat.

Are you talking about rubber lines under the hood, or rubber lines coming from the fuel cell? I'm pretty sure the lines from the fuel cell do have to use metal braid and AN fittings, but someone else will have to give you details on that.

Rubber lines under the hood are fine if that's what the car came stock with, but you should definitely inspect the lines and replace any that are old, cracked, or questionable in the slightest. Fuel injection line is more expensive, but it's thicker and stronger than regular fuel line. You may want to look into non-marring hose clamps (without the slots that dig into the rubber when tightened), but they're not required. Make damn sure that the lines aren't going to contact anything hot or abrasive. Use a metal fuel filter. If you absolutely must see the filter media, then use one with glass and be extra careful that it isn't flopping around. Don't use the plastic filters. Although the lines shouldn't be so long that they flop around, they should also have enough slack to allow for movement between the engine and chassis.