Topic: Rotor question

So I didn't want to post to the brake thread to stay out of the argument about whether race pads should be required.

Here is my question:

On the caddy (which weighs 3800 lbs), I am putting on race grade pads and I want to put on new rotors.  What kind of rotors do people like for heavy cars?  Solid/slotted/drilled/slotted & drilled?  Big price difference and I don't want to save money on something that i should spend more on.

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Team Pimpalicous
94 Cadillac Seville SLS DOA 10 Capital Offense
87 325 Convertible

Re: Rotor question

Solid.

New, full-thickness, stock rotors.

That goes for any car, not just heavy ones.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Rotor question

Can't those burn up pretty fast with a ceramic pad?

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Team Pimpalicous
94 Cadillac Seville SLS DOA 10 Capital Offense
87 325 Convertible

Re: Rotor question

What are you proposing as an alternative?

Drilling and slotting rotors doesn't make them last any longer.

Brake rotors are all about dissipating heat.  More mass = more heat dissipation.  Hence full-thickness, non-drilled or slotted, stock rotors.

Race pads and fluid to handle elevated heat levels.  Cooling ducts to remove more heat.  Should be all you need for a Lemons car.

If there is a larger diameter brake upgrade for your car using factory parts, that would give you more rotor mass, which might be worthwhile.  Beyond that, you're looking at expensive race brakes, or custom fabrication to fit something from another car.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Rotor question

Agreed full thickness OEM rotors, change the fluid to high temp stuff like DOT 4 and try to install some cooling ducts

Re: Rotor question

Agree also, our P71 will race with full thickness OEM rotors.  No slots or holes.  DOT 4, 475 degree fluid and race quality pads.  My 2 cents.

Re: Rotor question

Loren wrote:

Solid.

New, full-thickness, stock rotors.

That goes for any car, not just heavy ones.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Loren... you know semantics matter. wink

Solid rotor:
http://www.performance-cafe.com/images/321615301.jpg

Vented rotor:
http://media.merchantcircle.com/27318/Vented%20Rotor%20copy_medium.jpeg

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Rotor question

Yeah, I know, Ron.  "Solid", vented rotors.

His list of choices was "Solid/slotted/drilled/slotted & drilled", though.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

However, if the rear brakes are disk... solid non-vented rotors are not uncommon.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Rotor question

I've often wondered if there were any engineers zany enough to put solid rotors on the front of a car...

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Rotor question

I am not doing anything with the rear brakes other then putting stock pads.  I will go vented fronts.

Thanks

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Team Pimpalicous
94 Cadillac Seville SLS DOA 10 Capital Offense
87 325 Convertible

Re: Rotor question

First Generation Z cars, 240Z, 260Z and 280Zs all came stock with solid front rotors.

Regarding the question at hand, slotted and drilled rotors have some kind of advantages but a lot of them are crap and eat the pads.

Brembo sells rotors they refer to as Brembo Blanks which are an OEM replacement.  Tire Rack carries them and they are very reasonably priced.

Supposedly they are better quality then your typical house brand rotor at a low price.  I have a set for my driver cause a friend suggested them but they are still in the boxes on the shelf in the garage. 

I've never had a problem with a house brand rotor either so take all that for what it's worth.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Rotor question

For one race we used new drilled slotted rotors with R4 pads. The rotors had large cracks and the pads were almost down to the metal after the New Orleans race.

For MSRH last month, new stock rotors with new R4 pads. Same drivers as before with about hundred less racing miles, pads are maybe half worn. The rotors have some small cracks.

No more drilled rotors for me.

Re: Rotor question

FYI, we used R4-E pads which are designed for endurance racing.  They cost the same as R4, but last much longer.  Ask your Porterfield distributor to give you the specifics.  For a real 24 hour race or a big car that typically uses more than one set, they are worth it.  If you only use 1/2 a set in a race, however, they are not the right pads for you.  They are designed for one long heat cycle rather than several short ones.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Rotor question

Don't forget to use super-hi-temp brake fluid and bleed the living shit out of the system. Then bleed it again. And again. All the heavy-duty brake hardware in the world won't do you any good if you're boiling the fluid.

Re: Rotor question

I'd go ahead and put the same race pads in the rear of the car as you're using in the front. (in fact, if there's a level HIGHER, I'd consider it for the rear)

Why?

If you upgrade the front pads and go stock in the rear, your front pads are going to grab harder and sooner than the rear pads, meaning you'll be doing more braking with the front than the rear, thus putting MORE load on already overworked front brakes.  Put good pads in the rear so that they can do their share of the braking!

Why put better pads in the rear than the front?  Because most cars are factory set up with a front brake bias.  Same reason they design cars to understeer, it's safer for the front brakes to lock up before the rears.  The budget-racer's method of adjusting brake bias is simply to use different compounds front and rear.

I'm probably giving away somebody's secrets here, huh?

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Rotor question

ronman wrote:

I've often wondered if there were any engineers zany enough to put solid rotors on the front of a car...

Our Brava has solid unvented rotors in front and drum in back. In fact I think the front brakes (for a heavier, 4-passenger coupe) are the same as the back brakes on my Fiat Spider.

and yes, they sucked in a big way.

Josh Poage
Poage Ma Thoin Racing - 1981 Fiat Brava #09 - 2009 Yee-haw It's Texas
Prison Break Racing - 1986 325e #27 - 2010 Gator-o-Rama
Poage Ma Thoin Racing - 1981 Fiat Brava #09 - 2011 Heaps in the Heart of Texas

Re: Rotor question

In our first race we ran R4 pads up front with Hawk HP+s in the rear.  That was because we were worried the larger rear rotors would have more braking than the fronts. 

In reality, we pretty much have a Z31 (300ZX) brake system on a 240Z and the different pads caused to much front bias.  Damn hard to do much when the front brakes want to lock up.

We run RA fronts and R4-1s in the rear.  The front still locks up first but the system is pretty well balanced, just touchy.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Rotor question

Brakes and brake systems are unrestricted.  Run the same compound front and rear and if you need to change the brake bias, use a brake bias adjuster.  $50 at Jegs.  Doing this saves money in the long run - by having proper braking, you save on tires by not flat spotting them and also on brake pads both by not wearing them out and by using less agressive and costly pads.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Rotor question

Couldn't agree more, Rob. cool
Adjustable prop valves are the way to go on any car with any sort of brake conversion.

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: Rotor question

Now that all the guys who run light weight cars have had there say here is the skinny on heavy cars.

Good quality solid rotors and do not go really aggressive on the pads. If you have experienced racers on your team most of them are going to trail brake like Mo Fo's so in that case stick to a good quality street pad that will make them not drive STUPID and burn everything up. YES we put in pads that purposely would get hot and make them slow down and NOT wreck the car. The plus of heavy cars is that all the smaller cars and there cool driving will bounce off of us and we keep running while they fly off to never never land and get black flagged. Long story short use a really good set of ceramic or Hawk pads on the front (not to aggressive) and bone stock on the rear and you will be fine just don't drag race the straights just keep smooth and steady and let the carnage happen around you.

Pendejo Maximo Grande

Re: Rotor question

Stock front rotors with R-4's.
Stock rear drums with OEM shoes.

Better braking than my Porsche with four wheel disc and R-4's.

Motul fluid, bled regularly.


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
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Re: Rotor question

on the Lesabre we ran Hawk Blues on OEM vented rotors up front, fresh wagner shoes on stock drums in back, and ATE Typ200 fresh fluid throughout. excellent braking. just keep in mind you need good tires to make those brakes effective.