The other series. Talk me in or out of trying it out. (Page 1 of 3)

Last time we ran a Chump race, the organizer laid a blanket insult on Lemons drivers from the podium during the awards ceremony. They must have assumed that nobody at that race runs in both series...or maybe they just didn't care. That left a pretty bad taste in our mouths.

Yes I have. BIR, 2011 and 2012.

Yes you will. Based on my experience at Autobahn, our Beretta and your Celica are almost evenly matched. In the midwest, we have found that the majority of Chump teams, especially the BMWs, are on another level entirely. We have the power, you have the grip; they have both and are driving at 9.5/10 because they don't have to fear the black flag nearly as much as they would in Lemons. That said, not all teams are super fast, and I disagree with the idea that you would "basically be paying for a track day." There will be teams slower than you, and probably a couple that are around the same speed; you can still race with them and have a good time. The people are not all jerks; we've met some really nice guys at Chump races. In fact, the vast majority of Chump racers are really nice guys. But a lot of them are also really serious about (and much more financially invested into) racing, more so than we will ever be.

Us too. That's why we'll be going back to BIR to race Chump for a third time this year.

We don't care about winning Chump trophies or ChumpChange™, so we are racing in EC (Exception Class) this year. Also exempts us from their valuation system, which does not look kindly on our engine swap + ghettocharger setup. I could probably make a believable budget (at least as believable as what other teams submit) but it would be a lot of work, and why bother? We're not going to win, or even contend for anything anyway.

I say give it a try. If you like it, try it again. If you don't, you don't have to go back. Each region seems to have a different flavor/vibe so what you hear about one region may not be the scene in your region.

We have been  contemplating the other series just for the tracks they run.

Road Atlanta
VIR
Watkins Glen
Laguna Seca
Nelson Ledges
Gateway Motorsports Park

Those are all tracks on my bucket list (ok maybe not the last two). Just to make up for the pathetic midwest schedule we are trekking to NJ in August and Carolina in Sept which adds greatly to our costs for the weekend. We are also going to Road America in November even though it will probably suck.

And by the way, can't these two series coordinate their races better? Who thought it was a good idea to have the Joliet Autobahn race the same weekend as Chump's Michigan Gingerman race? Because of that there were only like 80 cars at Autobahn.

Whatever you do, don't try to bribe the Chump judges.

In person there is no poo pooing of anyone, we just raced Charlotte, another top 10 for us and had no issues or animosity running side by side of a astro turf covered goal post donning kia, if anything a personal observation of "A" class podium cars (running over there) are of awe as they tend to do just as well as pushier chumps but drive cleaner

The big differences I've noticed on the west coast races I've run are the fueling rules (driver can be in the car), fuel stops are 5 minutes minimum, 2 hr stint limit (enforced), the aggressiveness, the general vibe and the utter lack of cars.  I agree with some of the things they do but do not like their approach to contact at all.  To me allowing it is a slippery slope.  When I complained about another team repeatedly running me off the road to keep me from passing, one of their national level officials told me to just punt them out of the way and went on to explain the technique you use when the other car is heavier.  He was so casual about it that I find it difficult to believe that this was a unilateral mindset.  I related the entire conversation to John and he said he'd take care of it but I never heard anything more about it and the guy is still there so who knows if anything happened from that.  They say they are going to penalize contact more this year but I'm kind of waiting to see on that one.  I'll continue to run their races from time to time as they do run tracks very close to home or signature tracks like Laguna Seca.  I just can't get excited about their races.  I've got teammate wives and kids to think about and it weighs very heavily on my mind.  I'm thinking about skipping the Fontana race later this year and it's a 30 minute drive for me (nearest Lemons track is 3+ hrs).  The low car counts out here make it not as fun as Lemons.  I've radioed in before asking if anyone was still on track as I would go laps without seeing a soul.  I think 11 cars finished recently at their Buttonwillow race.  They do well in other regions so I guess YMMV.  I think that Joey runs the show in the midwest and it sounds like he runs a tighter ship.  Send him an email and let him know your fears/concerns.

Having said all that, you will see other cars/teams that you know.  I would encourage people to try it and decide for yourselves.

Oh, and every driver meeting or awards ceremony I've been to, they trash talk Lemons at some point.

Thanks for the information and advice, I think we will give it a go if I can get enough drivers to commit.

I have no illusions of a podium but want to be able to have some similar paced cars to run with to keep it interesting.
Aiming for the Gateway race in September, it's not the most inspiring track being a roval but it is kinda fun running the banking.

Will let everyone know how it goes if we get there, I'm looking forward to a race where I don't have to tow 5+ hours and not haul every little thing to the track.

To me, the low car counts are what would be boring. Heck, I thought Autobahn had way too few cars on it to really have fun.

We have run 2 chump races, and 8 Lemons.  The first event we ran, in 2010 at Putnam was a great event, except for the low car count.  At the time I thought that the loosening of the rules regarding incidental contact was refreshing, I thought that the event was run well, and overall, we had a great time.  Then we went to Nelson's with them in 2011.  That was a whole other story.  We brought 2 cars.  The grey car got hit 5-6 times, run off the road, and was woefully slow(it's pretty competitive in Lemons.).  The white car got hit 3 or 4 times, and finished 20 something(car has been a top 5-10 car in it's last 4 Lemons).  The level of driving was frankly, terrible.  I saw multiple incidents that were nothing more than massivly bad decisions.  There was little to no intervention until 8 am sunday, at that involved pulling everyone in, a light slap on the wrist with no penalties, and let everyone back out again.  There was no change in driving.  Iirc there were 5+ rollovers, many cars destroyed, and just a generally terrible race.  I have heard that it has changed some, but I'm still not comfortable in going back.  I have too much sweat, blood and cash rolled up in my car to go somewhere I think that it could easily be destroyed.  Which is too bad, I did enjoy running with them the first time.  It seems that the level of red mist goes much deeper.

I have studied the rule book and all we need to do is add a window net and their number board with some random 3 digit number as all the sub 100 numbers are claimed for the region. Purchased but not installed and a second kill switch. The one we have is in reach of the driver but not centrally mounted. No big deal there.
By the AIV rules we would be screwed but I asked for an AIV as I can't find ads for such an old and unpopular car and was given a $100 start. With our cheaty parts the car comes in just under $500 so hopefully no laps not that it matters but it would suck to have laps assigned and be running against faster cars that know how to work the system better.

I will miss the traffic. I also was wondering what was up at the end of the day Sunday at Joliet, there must have been only 40-50 cars on track. I passed the same 5 or so class C cars and I guess we were lapping similar times to many others that were on different parts of the track. I was getting lonely

At least at gateway you can see most of the track from most parts of the track and its short enough to be catching cars or being caught often enough.

The best analogy I've heard is,

Chumpcar is a race where a party might break out.  Lemons is a party where a race might break out.

We could go race Chump, but I'm far too entertained by all of you freaks.

BTW, Brett...I can't believe I made it out Joliet without making some comment about the Party Sheep car being nervous about getting rear ended by the Kiwis.