[ Closed ] chump's 36 (Page 1 of 2)

Best I can guess, something came in to race control, possibly from the now-trailing Saab team, possibly from the corner workers to the effect that the Saab was getting blocked from re-passing the SOF car---which, if you were following RaceMonitor, did have an edge on fast lap time over SOF.  I'd also guess that where the cars involved were teammates, race control wanted to err on the side of ensuring that team tactics did not inhibit the trailing car.  If SOF II and SOF I had been on different teams and just racing, it certainly might have been handled differently.

Chump has taken a much harder line on contact over the last six months to a year.  I don't think the organization is as strict as Lemons, but I think it's a lot closer to Lemons than it is to the series's original attitude.  I know that there's basically a standing policy of no bump-drafting---it's come up at a couple of central region races in the last year or so---I think because of concern over safety.  (And it should be noted that what happened with SOF wasn't really bump-drafting in the classic sense of a tactic to make both cars go faster, it was really using a faster car to push a slower car, which I would suggest should have a blanket ban independently of the rules on contact---I might go so far as to suggest that they were very lucky not to be penalized.)

To the best of my knowledge, blocking is prohibited by every major road racing organization.  As for bump-drafting, setting aside the "using one car to push another" thing that isn't really bump-drafting, I might take a wild guess that insurance drives the ban.

well, I was hoping to utilize bump drafting to get simcas to go 80mph at road america. there goes that friggin plan...

While I'm sure the convo w/ Condren certainly sucks if you make it that far, the idea that CC is a no contact, no blocking series is laughable.  Great racers over there including a ton of LeMonistas, but it's a crash-fest every time I've been to a CC race.  During the "36" I read along w/ the race forum thread real-time, for example, one car - three successive spins in three laps - before it gets called in for a 5 min. penalty?  How about four rollovers and three of them being allowed to return to the race?  Yeah, those are the stewards I want deciding who I share the track with.

Crash feasts are not allowed nor unique in either series.

Spins, wheels off and contact are watched, logged and if a team is having multiple issues it turns into a blak flag chat where staff evaluates and decides if its time for a new driver, one event I was overdriving (no offs/contact just over my head sloppy) while chasing the leader for position, I was black flagged, asked if the car was ok, asked if I was feeling ok and what seemed to be the issue, I confessed to driving beyond my skill and why and was sent back out 2 laps later after promising to behave and making sure I knew next flag it  was going to be a new driver. 

Not sure if you saw but 2 of those 3 "rollover returns" were only allowed back on track to take the checker, car 3 was a light roll.

Post race John came on the forum to state his position on bump drafting

"I want to address this right now, before all the critics, speculators and arm-chair crew chiefs start to respond.

1) I personally went to BOTH Team Captains about 45 minutes prior to the checker -- SOF and RBB/WRFB -- and spoke to them privately, clearly, forcefully and with a few expletives to make my intentions clear -- that if EITHER team and EITHER team car was used to block, bump-draft or interrupt the natural flow of the race, I would Black Flag BOTH team cars.

2) While the use of the second team car could be applied "strategically" to assist the other car, that strategy could not involve any driving that involved blocking, bump-drafting, contact with any other car or driving that exceeded the standard line. "Strategic Use" means positioning and drafting -- positioning includes placing a car between the other 2 team cars (at speed and without inhibiting forward progress) in order to prevent the other cars from engaging in drafting; or, putting the second car ahead to clear the way of slower cars; and/or, drafting for aero-enhancement. As you all know, I have always stated that "strategy" is CRITICAL to endurance racing, and no other ChumpCar race to-date has been a better example of that fact.

3) I instructed ALL corner workers, ChumpStaff and Race Control to put ALL EYES on the 4 cars of these two teams and to report any irregularity. Race Control also (wisely) instructed all corner workers to "liberally" use the Blue Flag to provide the top 5 cars with as much open-track as possible.

4) In the end, it was a clean, fair and well-deserved finish by all concerned.

John"

I'm going with sleep deprivation.

The only rollover *I* am aware of being openly discussed was the light roll of a 240sx, if memory serves correct it was driver error, a long sideways off track slide that ended with just enough momentum to finish tipping when the tires dug in, windshield was broken and removed (replaced with what or at all I have no idea) some tires were changed, fluids were topped off and it passed a re-tech to return racing, they had a couple of transmissions go south after that but it was unrelated.

No idea on the other rollovers, one (as mentioned below , not fatigue related) was so far off track it sat where it landed until daytime and a rescue plan,later repaired but damaged too badly to pass re-tech, that was one of the cars only allowed the last lap.

Both teams involved had a second car on the track. The Saab guys could have just as easily used their second car to the same advantage. That said, I don't have a problem with bump-drafting being considered "contact" and being disallowed.

However, I think the SoF strategy of using the faster car to tow the slower with actual drafting should have been considered fine (and fantastic teamwork, even) and let the corner workers call them in any blocking, which is what Lemons probably would have done.

The first few hours of the race saw the most carnage, including a car that actually ended up off the track's property, apparently. If you've seen in-car video of Spokane, it's a pretty intimidating track in the daylight, let alone when your first stint is in the dark: a very long, concrete-walled straight and run-off areas with berms that are in play at aforementioned high speeds. I don't know if it had something to do with starting the race at night or what, but I don't think most of the wrecks were fatigue-related.

I found it curious (understated word, there) that three rolled-over cars were allowed to finish:

(1) The Z-car that ended up off the track and required extensive measures just to recover it. The team flailed on it after getting it back and it failed tech because the floor was too messed up. They were allowed to run the race's last lap.

(2) The 240SX that rolled in what was apparently a fairly innocuous way (It's all relative). The cage was apparently completely intact and they were back on the track in an hour or two with the same driver who'd just rolled it at the wheel. This struck me as odd, but maybe I'm just too used to the "Why Am I On My Roof?" clause in the Lemons rulebook.

(3) The Civic hatch that rolled looked like this was also allowed to finish.

(I don't remember if the E36 that retired early rolled or if it just smashed a barrier well beyond repair and I'm too lazy to sort through the 20 pages of race updates.)

I understand letting a not-really-OK-with-tech car back on the track for a victory lap; that's been done in Lemons (Hoonatic's one-lap Integra). I don't understand how a rollover is not an automatic retirement somewhere in that 800-page rulebook.

You arent fast enough then.

I hear that Chump is working on less contact, and I think that is a good thing. I spectated at one of thier events, and I didnt get to see any contact. I know it was happening, and I know why it was happening when it happened, because I asked what the scoop was. There is intentional contact that happens, as well as accidental. The fact that you can make intentional contact seem accidental and get away with it is the issue.  At least at Lemons any and all contact is specifically against the rules.

Same as chump

How many cars were there?

You'll be able to reach dozens of miles per hour that way...before the car behind overheats with no air flowing over the radiator.

So about 2-1/2 minutes.